Salam people…please dont make a fuss out of this…just answer the topic and dont make it a personal dilemma.
[This message has been edited by NaikLarki (edited July 04, 2000).]
donno if they are honorable. but honorable guys of east will give anything to kiss their behind.
@%%^&*
[This message has been edited by NaikLarki (edited July 04, 2000).]
Women are honourable in all parts of the world ... wether it is East or West ... I am telling you from my own experience that honour is not confined to east or any other location ... honour is a human trait which is revered by humans in all parts of the world ... now the definition of honour can vary from one society to the other and it is quite natural due to the differences in culture and values ... Things which are immoral for the people of East might be quite acceptable in the West and vice versa ... I have come across many women from western descent who migrated to the East (Asia and Middleast) and having adopted the new culture and society cover themselves much more than the local easterns ... where as I have also come across women from the East who are very eager to expose as much flesh as they can ... This is just one little example to prove that Honour and Dignity are not dependent on global coordinates ... They are defined by social and cultural norms and we should always treat others with dignity and respect no matter what their descent is ... That is what would make us dignified and honourable.
Me22 Very well said.
So you think women in west CAN show flesh and act as westerners and do things as western culture is? Despite the fact that a muslim women from east, whos religion is off course islam. Are you saying that islam, gives women from east permission to show off their flesh and sleep on new bed every night when they come to westnern culture because in western culture its ok to do things that are NOT part of eastern???
What is important to you culture or religion?
HARooN
HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye...haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :)
A NOTE TO MODERATOR:
Naik larki mujey paata hia app ko kharishh ho rahee hia but please could you not edit my posts again…i know it should be in poetry, please do not do it again, i already hate you and dont make me hate you more, it wont be good for your health and mine. Subzii khaaoo
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Continue people just a little disturbance, by our moderator here NiakLarki(yyaawwnn) Get a grip naiko aight?
No one is fighting or using bad language here…could you please stay away now!
Jaawan
Till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid©
Jawaan did it ever occur to you that using ’bad’ language might not be the only problem here, some ppl don’t like racists comments either.
And now that I’m here, I might as well answer your questions – btw you’ve already made up your mind so why are you wasting your time? Anyway, I think I read this poem somewhere and I still think it stinks, and I’m sure the poet never ever sat his feet in the west. You probably know some western girls, don’t you – do they change partners as frequently as this person wants us to believe? No friend of mine does how about yours?
I think the west is slowly realizing that our shareef men don’t have any respect for western women, I was told that 90% of rapist in Maltase jails are Arabs. Why should they respect us, your Muslim or eastern sisters if you can’t respect their western women?
Hmmm…na I guess I don’t have anything to say anyway. One last comment though, I see you often in the religious forum, what does Islam say about honoring other religions/sects/Casts/Culture’s women?
Ps. Referring to women as Things shows how much you honor women in general.
Sabah jee…those women who let them selves be used are THINGS and very useless things and i have NO respect for them what so ever and i never will as a muslim! I look at it what islam says about it and than what culture says, but in your case it might be other way around.
you ask honoring womens of other culture well, you cant make a wrong, right by saying its a different culture, now can you? I dont think so, islam doesnt say “oh if you stay in this culture than its not OK, and if you go to that culture than you can do what ever you like and islam does not apply to you”; islam doesnt say this…if you are a good women it does NOT mean that all the women out there are good as you are, and if you are a bad women it doesnt mean other women out there are bad as well.
Some people just cant take the reality and they make excuses for making such issues bad and wrong in the eyes of others, how typical.
BTW: women is not a race and i shall put more on this issue as other people respond, and if i have to open up a little will do so…
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And editing, well we should be alowed to discuss what ever we like here, you cant just delete the whole post because it is related to your sex…
As said before please DO NOT make fuss out of it, just answer the topic and DO NOT make it a personal thing, thank you very much! I see this topic getting uglier as hours pass. good luck to me!
Jaawan
Till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid©
[This message has been edited by Jaawan (edited July 04, 2000).]
given the way we honor the women in east, western women are saved that they are not honored similarly.
and they are not begging to be honored by men, least of all asian men. they look at them a) in racist contempt or b) oh.. how different colored people live in the world kinda feeling as if they are going to a zoo or c) in rare cases, genuine friendship.
And in east a nice, genuine friendship with woman is rare. what honor, when even friendship is so rare.
P.S. I think moderator should allow this debate. The views expressed are stupid. But they are held by a majority of desis who have come abroad recently or never been abroad. Maybe knowing other side would help them. Jawaan, u also give Islam a break. These women are not Muslim so no point expecting that they should obey a strict islamic code of conduct when even muslims do not behave that way. just tell us on plain commonsense why u find then not honorable.
[This message has been edited by ullu (edited July 04, 2000).]
Mohtarum Jawan Sahib !
"suna tha Jawani sub per attee hai…lekin app per tu kuch zaydah hi Wakhari type ki Jawani ka asar hai
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aaram say meray bahi “Jawani ek munah-zoar ghoray(horse) ki tarhan hutee hai, dekh ker chaliyo kahin buhut buree tarahn na gir jaoo”
I look at it what islam says about it and than what culture says, but in your case it might be other way around.<<
Dearests Jawaan what does Islam say about it, I mean about honor and women? Btw which culture are you talking about? Mine yours or what?
What exactly do you mean by ’Honor’?
you ask honoring womens of other culture well, you cant make a wrong, right by saying its a different culture, now can you? <<
No, but how can you make it right by not respecting them? Can the west say the same about us?Some people just cant take the reality and they make excuses for making such issues bad and wrong in the eyes of others, how typical. <<
Ehhh…not understood. Who’s making excuses and for what? Do you need excuses to respect others?
Well ... Haroon Sahib, When we talk about culture and society lets not forget that religion is an integral part of both ... infact it is the religious beliefs which promote values in any society ... so the question on choosing between culture and religion does not arise at all ... becasue both are inseperable ... now coming back to the point, I didnt try to scale down the evils of the western way of life, but we should never forget that our religion does not allow us to poke our noses into other's personal lives unless we are responsible for their deeds ... now If a person or colleague sleeps with a new partner every night but he/she deals with you fairly at work and treats you with respect, Islam obliges you to do the same ... You have nothing to do with his/her personal life as long as it does not interfere with your personal life .. Lets not forget that in Islam "Huqooq ul Ibaad" are much more important than personal piety ... if a man doesnot pray at all, does not fast, sleeps with a different partner every night, Allah Almighty might over look all these sins ... after all he/she has only violated "Huqooq ul Allah" ... but if the same person misbehaves with the neighbours, disobeys his/her parents, mistreats other people, then these sins might seem trivial, but Allah says that He Almighty will not and cannot over look them as these involve a violation of "Huqooq ul Ibaad" and as long as the affected persons dont forgive him/her .. so my friend the evils which you mentioned are not trivial at all ... but again they should not be made the basis of our dealings with western women ... if they treat you with respect, you are obliged to do the same ... Quran says, "The return of a good deed is nothing but a good deed" (Surah Rehman) ... so lets follow the true spirit of our religion which never approves of disrespect and hate ... So we should treat everyone with honour and dignity no matter what religion, culture, society or race is involved ... So my friends, If we are treated fairly we have to do the same wether we are in the East or West.
Oh Jawaan…
You just ask for trouble !
MS
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/devil.gif
~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~
There is not really a concept of honour here in the west so western women don't feel the need to adhere to any code of conduct, in sexual terms anyway. Neither do western men.
I don't know about America or the rest of Europe, but in the UK the most popular holidays for teenagers are the 18-30 package holidays to Spanish resorts where young people get zonked out of their heads on drugs and basically get their leg over as many times as they can. According to the frequent documentaries and news articles anyway.
I think honour is probably taken to excess in some eastern societies and freedom taken to excess in some western societies. Maybe both could learn a little from each other?
slaam,
i just say jawan u raise very good point, and u made up ur point.
This is an article from yesterday's Times which is a fine bit of critical analysis by British press. Don't you Americans have this sort of introspection?
==========================================================================================
Thousands on Ecstasy every night in Ibiza
BY HELEN RUMBELOW, MEDICAL REPORTER
The Times
3rd July 2000
ONE in eight of the half-million young tourists going to Ibiza this summer will take Ecstasy nearly every night of their stay, according to new research.
It also found that more than a quarter have unprotected sex and a quarter have sex with more than one partner during their trip.
The study is the first evidence of the extent of drug use on the Spanish island, which was dubbed the "Gomorrah of Europe" after the British vice-consul resigned two years ago in disgust at the behaviour of its British visitors.
Professor Mark Bellis, whose team from Liverpool John Moores University conducted the study, said that tour operators, clubs, and the Ibiza authorities should do more to educate young people about the drug risks.
His research in the International Journal of Drug Policy shows that thousands of young people go on fortnight-long drugs binges, despite the fact that the effect of Ecstasy in such high concentrations is, as yet, unknown. Nearly one in ten of them went to hospital or saw a doctor while in Ibiza.
Foreign Office figures show that last year one British tourist died from drugs use in Ibiza, and drug-related arrests rose to 44, compared with 30 in 1998.
Professor Bellis said: "Already, holidays in Ibiza and other such nightclub resorts around Europe have been booked by young people for the year 2000. We have no idea what the health costs of using Ecstasy like this might be, especially as some are also using other drugs with it."
He surveyed nearly 1,000 people at Ibiza airport as they prepared to return to Britain, with a median age of 20 for men, 19 for women. More than a third had taken Ecstasy on their holiday. Half of those using Ecstasy on the island used it five nights or more a week, with an average of two tablets a night.
*A high percentage also used cannabis, LSD and cocaine most nights, while 90 per cent got drunk nearly every night. *
John Ramsey, head of toxicology at St George's Hospital Medical School, London, said that Ecstasy caused more brain damage if the body was not allowed to recover between doses. He said: "Brain damage in animals can be caused more readily if they are given higher doses of Ecstasy and if you repeat the dose more frequently. Young people are very ill-advised to use it every week, let alone every day."
Mike Linnell, from Lifeline, the drug information service, said he felt that the survey's figures for repeat usage of Ecstasy were low. He said colleagues educating young people in Ibiza about the risks of drugsfound many took drugs for the first time on holiday, due to their easy availability.
Kevin Skeavington, 18, from Mansfield, died after falling from a third-floor balcony at the Hotel Honolulu near Magaluf, Majorca.
==========================================================================================
I think that the the reporter that wrote the article and the paper that published the results were indeed very honourable, so it shows that there is some honour in western women but maybe of a different type to what we are used to discussing.
kitaboon kay subhi uraaq perhnay kay nehien hotay.
yahan takreem kay kabel bhelah eshab hein ketnay.
Ok…very nice here i go this will be little long sorry.Please do read all before commenting, and try not to misunderstand anything. Have fun and good luck reading.
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Ullu i will try not to bring islam in this, but as a muslim i have to look at it islamic way. I do agree with what you said. Sahi bola.
Durr-e shahwar…being Jaawan aur Jaawani ka es topic se keya talooqq hia??? HUH?
Dearest Sabha jee…Islam says to respect women at a VERY HIGH level as far i have studied islam it says that. But what do you think islam says about women who show off their flesh and act like 2 cent “ladies” who let other use them in any way they like. I DONT think islam tells us to repect those kinda women. Do you think it does? Are you in favor of women who act like that? I am talking about culture your, and mine and western and my religion. Do not act as if you do not know what im talking about and please mostly dont make this difficult to understand.
“Btw which culture are you talking about? Mine yours or what?” <<< thats another lame excuse to deminish the main point.
Honor means > High respect as that shown for special merit; esteem, Good name; reputation.
Honor is something that is not won by stupid disucussion like this and try to make others believe that any kind of behavior done by a women(even if its bad) is right; but one should try hard NOT to lose it. As women in west have lost it, by doing many un-human things, such as sex/nudity in public, sex with animals and that sort of things.(im sure you can think of more things like those.)
No, but how can you make it right by not respecting them? Can the west say the same about us? <(an excellent question)>
When westerners do not care about what their women do, and they do not care about what their own honor why would they bother saying something about us??? Hell they will try their best to make us, just like them. Now that will NOT be good would it be???
I do not wana throw everything at you at once…slowly we shall learn.
You know sabha jee…its human nature to make excuses for everything, just like here when naiklarki edited my posts, because it was about women and she being a women wouldnt want or like us/others talking about them. And than you come in the picture saying that there were racist comments on women!!! First of all women is not a race and that is exactly what happens to women in west, they get pregnant when they are 13, would you want your daughter to get pregnant at that age, well make it 16? Pregnant by some sexless freak before marriage would anyone want that done to their daughter??? (Please dont be offended by these questions, its just a questions and your answer should be YES, or, NO, with explaination if you will please.)
Hmm ME22, you are talking strictly with western ideaology, that is invidulism.<(ever heard of it)>
Tell me something, do you think sleeping with new partner every night is OK??? any any society, culture, and/or religion??? When you say and KNOW that there are evils in western society, than why do you try to make it right and OK in front of other??? Why cant you just say that, this is evil deed and it shouldnt be done at all.
Private life does not exist in islam, that is just another gimcrack used by patriots of the west to make the theory of invidualism more strong.
So you are saying that “Huqooq ul Ibaad” are MORE important than pleasing gods will, and what god says in quran??? Islam says you respect everyone and everything, but when you are showing respect to someone who is polluting your mind, your kids minds and society around you, would you still respect that, meaning would you still promote people like those do what they do???
If someone gives you respect and than you show them respect back, that doesnt mean ITS OK to do what they do. YES you show respect to whom ever shows respect to you, it should be only upto showing respect and NOT making the sins of person showing respect to you RIGHT, just because he or she is being nice to you. (little confusing to understand eh? sorry please do read it few times than it will sink in)
Mem Sahiba…koon si trouble kahan ki trouble kesi trouble missy??? Take it easy this post is going smooth, agar phir moderator ko khaarish honi shuru ho ghi to phir acha nahi ho ga
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Mr.Extream…freedom is used as an excuse in west to give honor a new face, such as making sex/nudity in public OK, which is another basis of so called “we want freedom”.
Hope no is offended yet…Enjoy some of the quots!
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**Good women always think it is their fault when someone else is being offensive. Bad women never take the blame for anything. Anita Brookner, British author.
Growing up female in America. What a liability! You grew up with your ears full of cosmetic ads, love songs, advice columns, whoreoscopes, Hollywood gossip, and moral dilemmas on the level of TV soap operas. What litanies the advertisers of the good life chanted at you! What curious catechisms! Erica Jong, U.S. author.**
The white man regards the universe as a gigantic machine hurtling through time and space to its final destruction: “individuals” in it are but tiny organisms with private lives that lead to private deaths: personal power, success and fame are the absolute measures of values, the things to live for. This outlook on life divides the universe into a host of individual little entities which cannot help being in constant conflict thereby hastening the approach of the hour of their final destruction. Policy statement, 1944, of the Youth League of the African National Congress
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Jaawan
Till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid©
Jaawan
Ullu...i guess you are one of those who likes using used things? no offence! Lets see what other westernized and those who are not think.
So Mr Jaawan you are one of those who think
women are THINGS which men USE, and you do
not want to USE, USED things hmmmm,... this
simply shows your values and how you think.
Women are not THINGS and they cant be used like things.
They cant be owned by their brothers, fathers, husbands or anybody else.