are we?

loaded topic…are we still supporting afghan taliban or not?

my blood was also boiling reading this article as it is drafted by an indian american and it is making some direct attacks on our amry and its policy of harboring afghan Taliban.

but then i kept my emotions on one said. fareed zakria is a very influential journalist, who is widely read across the globe… i always find him prejudiced towards pakistan but is he right this time? and honestly speaking i dont know the answer..

is our army still supporting the afghan taliban or not? if not, why the hell all these prominent terrorists are being found in our cities? osama bin ladan, mullah omar and now pakistani media reporting that mullah mansur also hides in quetta.

and only recently i posted videos of Musharaff and retired general Asad Durrani claiming publicly that pak army has always supported taliban and played the double game. here is a brief promo of durrani interview..mind boggling..you can see the full version on YouTube.

i am not a security expert but hey maybe it is in our strategic benefit to support afghan taliban.. and if that is the case, the double game is just fine… we shd protect our interest first..but dont know the answer and appreciate some open discussion without getting emotional. we all want best for Pakistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-key-to-solving-the-puzzle-of-afghanistan/2015/10/08/1ebfa63a-6df1-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html

Re: are we?

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The key to solving the puzzle of Afghanistan is Pakistan

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 [https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://syndication.washingtonpost.com/sites/default/files/Zakaria_Final.png&w=80&h=80](http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/fareed-zakaria)  By [Fareed Zakaria](http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/fareed-zakaria) Opinion writer October 8 at 8:19 PM   

Recent setbacks in Afghanistan — from the fall of Kunduz to the errant U.S. bombing of a hospital in that city — again raise a question. Why, after 14 years of American military efforts, is Afghanistan still so fragile? The country has a democratically elected government widely viewed as legitimate. Poll after poll suggests that the Taliban are unpopular. The Afghan army fights fiercely and loyally. And yet, the Taliban always come back.
The answer to this puzzle can be found in a profile of the Taliban’s new leader, Akhtar Mohammad Mansour. It turns out that Mansour lives part time in Quetta, the New York Times reports, “in an enclave where he and some other Taliban leaders . . . have built homes.” His predecessor, Mohammad Omar, we now know, died a while ago in Karachi. And of course, we remember that Osama bin Laden lived for many years in a compound in Abbottabad. All three of these cities are in Pakistan.

We cannot solve the problem of Afghanistan without recognizing that the insurgency against that government is shaped, aided and armed from across the border by one of the world’s most powerful armies. Periodically, someone inside or outside the U.S. government points this out. Yet no one knows quite what to do, so it is swept under the carpet and policy stays the same. But this is not an incidental fact. It is fundamental, and unless it is confronted, the Taliban will never be defeated. It is an old adage that no counterinsurgency has ever succeeded when the rebels have had a haven. In this case, the rebels have a nuclear-armed sponsor.
Pakistan has mastered the art of pretending to help the United States while actually supporting its most deadly foes. Take the many efforts that U.S. officials have recently made to start talks with the Taliban. It turns out that we were talking to ghosts. Omar has been dead for two years, while Pakistani officials have been facilitating “contacts” and “talks” with him. This is part of a pattern. Pakistani officials, from former president Pervez Musharraf down, categorically denied that bin Laden or Omar was living in Pakistan — despite the fact that former Afghan president Hamid Karzai repeatedly pointed this out publicly. “I do not believe Omar has ever been to Pakistan,” Musharraf said in 2007.

The Pakistani army has been described as the “godfather” of the Taliban. That might understate its influence. Pakistan was the base for the U.S.-supported mujahideen as they battled the Soviet Union in the 1980s. After the Soviets retreated from Afghanistan in 1989, the United States withdrew almost as quickly, and Pakistan entered that strategic void. It pushed forward the Taliban, a group of young Pashtun jihadis schooled in radical Islam at Pakistani madrasas. (“Talib” means student.) Now history is repeating itself. As the United States draws down its forces, Pakistan again seeks to expand its influence through its long-standing proxy.
Why does Pakistan support the Taliban? Pakistan’s former ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, whose book “Magnificent Delusions” is an essential guide, says that “Pakistan has always worried that the natural order of things would be for Afghanistan to come under the sway of India, the giant of the subcontinent. The Pakistani army came to believe that it could only gain leverage in Afghanistan through religious zealots. Afghanistan’s secular groups and ethnic nationalists are all suspicious of Pakistan, so the only path in is through those who see a common, religious ideology.” This strategy is not new, Haqqani points out, noting that funding for such groups began in the mid-1970s, before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979.
What should the United States do? First, says Haqqani, it needs to see reality for what it is: “When you are lied to and you don’t respond, you are encouraging more lies.” He argues that Washington has to get much tougher with the Pakistani military and make clear that its double-dealing must stop. To do this would be good for Afghanistan and stability in that part of the world, but it would also be good for Pakistan.
Pakistan is a time bomb. It ranks 43rd in the world in terms of its economy, according to the World Bank, but has the sixth-largest armed forces. It has the fastest-growing nuclear arsenal, and the most opaque. It maintains close ties with some of the world’s most brutal terrorists. By some estimates, its military consumes 26 percent of all tax receipts, while the country has 5.5 million children who don’t attend school . As long as this military and its mind-set are unchecked and unreformed, the United States will face a strategic collapse as it withdraws its forces from the region.
Read more from Fareed Zakaria’s archive, follow him on Twitter or subscribe to his updates on Facebook.

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FZ is a well known Pakistan hater and does not have much credibility on this topic. Its best to ignore clown like this.

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First India should stop supporting TTP and baloch terrorists... The article is response of NS's speech in UN...and also a welcome note for NS's upcoming visit of US..where terrorism in the region is to be discussed...

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but are you also saying that pakistan amry is not supporting or harboring afghan taliaban anymore? and if so, is it in pakistan's strategic benefit? maybe it is.

you didn't answer that part. thx

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that is knee-jerk reaction ...we shd definitely continue to expose indian involvement in Pakistan and i wish we had made those proofs public in UN but will you answer the question of this thread ...and that is if pakistan amry is still supporting or harboring afghan taliaban or not? and if so, is it in pakistan's strategic benefit? maybe it is.

you didn't answer that part. thx

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The only way we would have any say on India's involvement in Pakistan and have check on Afghanistan is by having certain level of influence on Afghan Taliban. The day Pakistan looses that control we would become a ball which is kicked by everyone...

As per my understanding, Pakistam must have certain level of control on Afghan Taliban...that is to control and mitigate Anti-Pakistanism in that part of world... We can continue battling TTP and Baloch terrorists, but won't be able eliminate them for good, unless We have favorable Afghan govt or strong elements which can push Afghan govt on our side...

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Then why are we supporting US efforts to fight Taliban and taking money from them? That is the question Fareed Zakaria's article poses. If we accept that we are still supporting Taliban, then we must also accept that we have been playing both sides of this war.

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I am not a fan of taliban or wahabbism, but with an afghan state dependent on pakistan economically and the safety valve for trouble is to send refugees to Pakistan, I think that it does invite pakistan's dealings with NGOs in afghanistan.

What do you think would happen to afghan army the moment US steps out of afghanistan? Afghanistan wants cross border control, yet doesn't want fences on the border and actually has shot and killed pakistani troops on the border. you can't dream of having afghanistan up to indus river and then the above factors and not invite Pakistan's interference in afghanistan. I think Vali Nasr makes more logical arguments than Zakaria.

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We are fighting TTP...and other terrorist groups...Afghan Taliban are not operating from Pak...but yes TTP is operating from Afghanistan and India is providing full support that is financially and with weapons...on top of that, Afghan Govt, who have history of hostility against Pakistanand does not have capability to control anything out of its Presidential Palace or Kabul at best...Pakistan have to take measures to protect its interests...

Coming to US support, it was like somebody pointing gun at you and asking you to do something... The money US give is not additional but is reimbursement of funds... I hope one knows what that means...

Coming down to Fareed Zakaria and his article, which have been written to malign Pakistan's image and interest... And in this scenario one would use parts of truth to support his point of view...and i don't blame him, it his job which he is doing for his motherland....

Pakistan have certain influence on Taliban..and that is there to use them in its interest...Taliban again are not Pakistani army... And it is that influence which brought both Afghan govt and Taliban om negotiations in Murree earlier this year... But kinds of Zakaria would use to malign Pakistan's image...and Pakistan needs a secure border for economic prosperity....which Zakaria and his country men won't digest...

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You just agreed to what Zakaria said and yet claim he is maligning Pakistan.

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Zakria saying Pakistam playing evil doubke game...
Iam saying Pakistan merely protecting its interest...
Zakaria saying Pakistan doung it to bring world down...
I am saying Pakistan defending itself from its enemies like India...who are sponsors of everykind of terrorism in Pakistan through Afghanistan.

There is difference...

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How do you expect ordinary folks to know? Everyone is supporting everyone in this war, if you go by media reports. Currently Iran is supporting Afghan Taliban to fight ISIS, that means India too is supporting Taliban.

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I hope you extend the same courtesy to the US and US's foreign policy then.

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If pk has the right to protect its interest in Afgan tthan every one else has their right inccluding US and india

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What interest US have? Are there any terrorist camps in Afghanistan who are sending terrorists to US? Is there a pending land dispute between US and Afghanistan?

Lets assume answer to above is Yes! Even US is in Afghanistan with i dont know how many other countries...with its ultimate war machine.. With thousands of Rambos and terminators and what nots...with all this and 13/14 years...what is the end result? Terrorist camps who are being sponsored by India and are attacking Pakistan???
Does Pakistan have right to protect itself??? It is the question!!!

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Oh BTW, Pakistan is not doing anything in Syria..US is protecting some interests there and million people are effected...

When Pakistan did anything like that???? dont compare oranges with apples

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Right!

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well, you are orchestrating our Afghan taliban's policy as a centerpiece to contain india as well as eliminate TTP and balochistan insurgency...not sure if i can agree with this proposition as we have been meddling with afghanistan for last 40 year or so one way or the other whereas indian involvement in Afghanistan is a relatively recent phenomenon

plus we created taliban in early 90s when we did not even have TTP issue in pakistan...so it is not like we had a serious TTP issue in pakistan supported by afghan govt and to counter it, we created and supported afghan taliban. this is a blatantly wrong. we created afghan taliban way before we had TTP issue in pakistan.

by the way we are also responsible for creating TTP groups which we were using against india in kashmir...when musharaff govt asked these groups to stop after 911, they turned against us around 2004....so it is not like india or usa created these groups. yes they are now using them against us but we created this monster.

plus these afghan taliban have been acting as mentors for TTP in pakistan

so we are back to square one...kindly tell me one good strategic benefit pakistan has received by creating, nurturing, and supporting taliban since 1993? why cant pakistan have a good friendly relationship with an elected afghan govt? why go for animals such as taliban?

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using your theory of "protecting self interest", lets remember america has strategic interest everywhere in the world since it is a truly global superpower. we are not. we have a very limited shpere and within that (as you pointed out) we do everything right or wrong to protect our self interest.

hani bhai, it is not fair that when it comes to pakistan's involvement in afghanistan or its decision to support taliban or TTP in past, we justify it on the name of self interest but when it comes to usa or other countries, we start using moral compass or other theories to justify that these countries have no self interest there. let every country define its own "self interest" framework.

but anyway, you are acknowledging that supporting afghan taliban is in our self interest. and that is fine. i want an open discussion as to what do we common citizens of pakistan think of our army policy towards afghan taliban. appreciate honest opinion.