Are we screwed?

[Dushwari]

Re: Are we screwed?

scratch,

i pray and hope that what ever your gender is, when you intend to marry someone, you don’t walk out on that person and you respect that person and that person respects you.

marriage is difficult to define for even married people.
this is what i can offer as a reflection on this.
the pre-marital courtship and then the marital relationship
are like the 3 rd entity between the couple, that they must nurture.
unless that does not happen, the rest is all futile, kids from unhappy marriages and one side trying without any progress on the other. loss is of the side who is ingrate and mean selfish spirit.
Allah swt look s over us all and our deeds, so, those who hood wink from their side of keeping the relationship content, know where they are destined to go, in the eyes of the people they hurt and in Allah swt's eyes.
of course, mercy of Allah swt together with a redemption in Allah swt's eyes and forgiveness as well as repairing of a relationship in the heart of the person who is hurt by insensitive and manipulative approach to marriage by the uncaring person, might be possible based on how soon and with how much genuineness the person who causes hurt realizes and does something about his/ her wrong doing.
yes, it is essential to discuss marriage so that young people who are e not married, know that the personal responsibility is first and foremost in this matter and that no one should ever feel absolved of wrong doing in case of marriage related any step they made or are pursuing now.

for that, their own conscience will suffice. and if they are human and realize they will act on their conscience's advice for own purity of conscience's sake to make amends.
best,

Dushwari

[Scratch]

Re: Are we screwed?

There is no need of patronizing. I am male, was married, and therefore know how these things work and un-work. I loved my woman but what came out of the whole experience doesn't reflect too brightly on the modern day ideals. Thanks nonetheless.

[indopak]

Re: Are we screwed?

it shouldn't be that guys and girls from India/Pakistan only marry ADs just to get permanent residence in America, I mean they should atleast show some care and respect for the person instead of just looking to get entry into the country.

I got proposals of those kinds and we rejected them immediately because those kinds of people might just leave after getting what they wanted. I've seen that happen to a family friend's daughter.

[TiLl_LuK]

Re: Are we screwed?

[quote="Sahar02, post:20, topic:172553"]

My instinct is to say that this is very sad and terrible. Why on earth would you marry your girls off so young, if they're not ready? And then why marry them off to opportunistic guys who are using them for a green card?

our parents believe that this is the only golden oppurtunity to get married since proposals come pouring in at this age, if we delay this to late 20's then it is hard to find a spouse. By the way what is a green card?

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

^Permanent Residence

[PrinceMS]

Re: Are we screwed?

Saher you nailed the topic in your first post. Yes all those assumptions are true. and yes in short you are secrwed :p

All other things being secondary, the primary thing that discourage western desi guy to look for rishta outside is : "obedeient, domestic, maternal" differences.

Let me give an alternative point of view:

[PrinceMS]

Re: Are we screwed?

Lets say there is a desi guy living in the western country. He is decently established, well educated, well mannered, knows his values, open minded ...
being a "nice / good" guy, he doesn't date. Has female acquaintance but limited to skool / work.
When it comes time to get married, who is he going to approach? Highly unlikely he will have a skool sweetheart. Highly unlikely he can find western girls off his own (too shy, don't knwo where to start, ...) . He will have to go by what his parents say. Parents criterias are : someone mellow for him and a "home maker".

We are talking about just an average guy here, with same ambitions as your gurls to have a "decent" partner (nothing fancy). Hopefully, fall in love, respect and live a good life.

As Ali Haider says in his song "sara system hi hai kharab" :)

[amana]

Re: Are we screwed?

^ My question is why boys (men would take more of an initiative in choosing a wife) continue to go "back home" to search for a wife. Many of these girls have turned out to be spoiled, not very domestic (particularly those who grew up in homes with servants), and tend to be much more chalak than american desi girls, because they have spent years playing family politics.

They may be less independent, but wouldn't you want a wife who can buy her own groceries, run her own errands, clean the house, and not depend on you for every little thing, particularly if you have a demanding career? Or is that too threatening to the fragile male ego?

[indopak]

Re: Are we screwed?

^exactly Amana! :)

most of what you said makes complete sense but a lot of the girls from back home work too.

[amana]

Re: Are we screwed?

Yes, I agree. Many of them do work, and are quite capable, but within the last few years several friends children have overlooked very nice girls here and gone "back home" to find girls who would be domestic. Quite a few of these marriages are failing because the husbands are tired of coming home and doing the housework, washing the clothes, or having to take the wife to the mall after work because she is "bored and lonely". One of dh's friends cleans the bathroom because the housewife he married think that it's a dirty job. Another sends her son to full day "preschool" while she stays at home because it's "too hard to raise a child without servants".

[system]

Re: Are we screwed?

Questioning marriage? Old way of having children? Marriage is restrictive to women? Is it liberating to men ?

bhai, all this makes for great intellectual discussion but someone please tell me what is it that we are trying to achieve? What level of non-restrictiveness and liberation will finally satisfy women? Why is this all so complicated for us?

May be it will help if we try to just not think from a materialistic point of view and realize that most men and women still have emotional, physical and support needs that make them question their erstwhile rebellious (and thus popular) behavior later on in their lives?

I wasn't going to reply because, as I mentioned, this thread, and the responses, seem to stay within the status quo and did not want to question it, so any contribution I made, I felt, would be to no avail and would not be welcomed. But I will reply anyway because I cannot resist this once: I am not even talking about destroying the concept of marriage and the universal adoption of common law relationships. Revolution means every aspect of society undergoes upheaval and we question the very concept of society itself.

Because the aim should be anarchy, there would be no such thing as common law marriages, for in this case, the government is interfering with something it has no right to interfere in. The state, in every instance, and in every manifestation, should be dead. We should, finally, cut off the head of the king (government / the state), as the French Revolution was impotent in doing this.

Prior to a total revolution, what ought to happen and the alternate ways of living that would bring about revolution in personal lives and in the world are the following. People should adopt whatever they choose, nothing should be a prescription. The following are just some options. All of the following require a death of concepts of femininity and masculinity, the very death of what it is essentially to be a man or a woman, such that nothing primordial remains:

• Marriage between man and woman, i.e. a heterosexual union, where both forget biology (gender)
• Women living alone, without any romantic attachment
• Having children alone, without a father
• Homosexual marriages
• Marriages that have more than two individuals in them (let's not have dirty minds and think of this as an orgy, let's think in terms of community; for, essentially, marriage between two is exclusionary. Because there would exist no biology or gender, questions of polygamy would never arise)
• Serial monogamy (for we must remember that historically the high death rates meant frequent remarriages)
• Surrogacy; the hiring of wombs is the equivalent of the Islamic hiring of breasts (wet nurses)
• A system where a child is raised NOT by its biological parents (this has been the case in all history, for children were raised by siblings and extended family; it was changed with the Industrial Revolution and cemented in place after the world wars when governments instituted massive propaganda campaigns to force women to return home from work so that men returning from war could have their jobs back), but rather raised by the community

I can't think of any more right now. This is my take and I understand that most don't agree but many, I have found, do.

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

in my opinion it can all come down on destiny, i know of girls who got proposed just by being seen in religious gatherings or weddings or to family friends, girls who never had relationships with these guys or other guys prior to their engagements... i think your going to get your destiny you just choose the path in how your going to get there? socializing can be a key to marriage.

So what is it -- destiny or our own actions? You suggest that we should leave it up to a higher cosmic force, and then you say that you have to be social. So is it in the hands of the girl? Does she have to be more outgoing?

Seems like girls are more screwed. Seems like guys have this attitude that desi girl is second preference, gori first. And desi guys can also openly "play the field". For girls that's a little hard.

I know its already been mentioned in this topic.

So does that mean that AD guys have a responsibility to marry AD girls?

Saher you nailed the topic in your first post. Yes all those assumptions are true. and yes in short you are secrwed :p

All other things being secondary, the primary thing that discourage western desi guy to look for rishta outside is : "obedeient, domestic, maternal" differences.

Let me give an alternative point of view:

When I say "we" I don't mean 'me' or just AD girls. I'm referring to the community as a whole who feels some responsibility toward these women who want to be married and will also experience the consequences if these women are left feeling unfulfilled.