Are we screwed?

[Iconoclast]

Re: Are we screwed?

@TiLl_LuK

Its NOT only the Americans my dear!,....Britons like me are having the same problem, our parents have given us deadlines to find a partner, if not then we fly to Pakistan which completly is against our will...question is what do we all do?????

Its always difficult to find one from own community when u are a minority in a country and people are spread across the whole country.

Why don't Desi's arrange matrimonial services.

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

Thanks for all the replies, all! I’m going to start replying now.

@TiLl_LuK

Its NOT only the Americans my dear!,…Britons like me are having the same problem, our parents have given us deadlines to find a partner, if not then we fly to Pakistan which completly is against our will…question is what do we all do???

What’s the age cut off in your mind? In your parents? What makes them think that finding a mate in Pakistan will be easier? Is it?

@indopak

many times the stereotypes of American/western born/raised desis that people back in India and Pakistan(maybe,not sure) have is that we are more westernized and lack any culture which is so not true. I don’t know how their opinions become so negative about ADs but I feel like I have to constantly prove that i’m just like them and have been taught all the desi values and culture just like they had been.

they are always so surprised that I can cook desi food or speak our mother tongue. My mother started looking for me early because of all those negative stereotypes people from India had about ADs. I think we have a nice mix of American/western and desi culture in us:)

You’re absolutely right. There are people like you and me who constantly try to prove ourselves. I do the same thing; showing myself to be modest and obliging and well-mannered, like the image of desi girls in Pak. But I think that there are important values from the West that are part of who I am. And I try to show the importance of these too.

Other girls I think get overwhelmed by the pressure and assumptions and cut themselves off from the desi community. And lastly, others rebel to show that they don’t care what others think. I don’t really think any approach is a good one.

@Dushwari

Sahar02,

good thread topic.

marriage is about two people and then period.
no other people ought to make it difficult.
and for that to be, the two partners - a woman and a man, must fully care for each other and not surprise with distrust.
it is not about east and west, it is about honest and dedicated good women and men, who seriously do want to get settled, as mature adults, and responsible spouses to be, and also as individuals who do not expect the other person to turn into a play dough, psychologically or emotionally-physically.
that said, in my opinion, and that is just one person’s opinion, there is no such thing as arranged or love marriages.
it is only marriages based on layers of hid or indirectly obvious reasons, or genuine care for each other, expressed by both partners, so that they can begin to live together nobly as a wedded couple.
culture, religion, and family has very little role, beyond mystifying the marriage and what it means between two mature minds.
it is not about just getting together to have kids, it is about a peaceful home, a place that is made by two loving people, so that they can call it their safe and comfortable home, in which they can raise their off spring.

people cannot force love. they can not make others feel afraid, to be able to find this particular type of care.
it can only about when a man and a woman, have known and understood each other well. the communication, like in the case of meetings with arranged prospects, or meeting on one’s own, is simply meaningless if one of the two or both people did not take the time to get to know each other, prior to setting the basis for such a deeply committing and life long partnership.

it is a mocking disappointment, that as someone assures you that that person is likes or cares for a said other person, and then just as soon, this person changes.

a lot of distrust is due to the fact that experiences are bitter and people are not comfortable in their own lives and that is why men cannot make the decision of marrying even someone who they wanted to, because they lack the decision making ability. in case of women, mostly, still, it is cultural that they do not normally get to express whom they would like to bring into a marital contract.

there are layers of immigrant strife issues which force immigrant families in case of boys’ parents and extended family or friends to become selfish and ignorant of what may be good for them.

and women’s’ parents, siblings and friends, hush them for their expected quietness in these matters.

whereas in Islam, a mature woman and man, must ask raza of each other before getting married to each other.

there are so many wrong things in the societal set up, its intentions, end goals and male-female ability to live a responsible and independent life in this aspect.
unless, these personal and societal issues are not addressed, traditional or non traditional, all kinds of, modes of ‘mate searching’ will not be useful.

Best,

Dushwari

I think you are absolutely right about what marriage should be about. And I think that when people are looking for mates on their own they do try to consider what you said. It just becomes difficult and more superficial when the whole arranged marriage process goes through aunties and uncles and parents. People look for labels.

@teggy

do they really? no seriously…cuz i dono

I’m not sure. Part of me says, anyone should be allowed to marry who they want to marry. But the other part of me resents the guys who say, “desi girls are too high maintenance or no fun” etc etc, without really giving the girls a chance. These guys end up either going for nondesis because these are the girls they hang out with more. Or some guys end up importing (I’ve seen this a lot lately – with guys that I’m surprised intentionally looked for girls in Pak) because girls there are gorgeous as well as more fun-loving, relaxed, and flexible (in their perspective). Why do they think that? Is it a fair assumption? Are American desi girls more high maintenance? Do we have more “issues”?

@AnGeL_EyEs

I think if perhaps women start becoming a bit more realistic with their standards and stop living in a fantacy world AND they (including their parents) become a bit more open minded about marrying outside of their culture then maybe we would see more women getting married.

I agree. What can we do to make these options seem “good,” rather than last resorts for older girls?

@X2

I think too much bollywood images are messing up the expectations of ppl.

and the whole local abcd vs fob vs import seems a interesting issue, much of it filled with stereotypes about each other. yeah there are some genuine concerns but for the most part the people..gusy and girls i have seen having issues finding a mate ..its due to expectations and established views/beliefs about others.

What do you mean by the bollywood images, X2? I think you’re right about the stereotypes and assumed expectations, but how do we break people of these? I can argue till my face goes blue, but the aunties uncles parents still say, you’ll see when you are older. These issues put stress on marriage. Marriage isn’t really about “love” or “clicking.” It needs to consider the practical.

@aliyish

One more thingy , The day our women stop looking for some well-established bloke , who could afford them a nice an comfy living , a life where they don’t have to do much and majorities of responsibilities are on men’s shoulders .

The day , they will stop worrying about marrying an average bloke and want to be his helping hand rather then being some one who just sit at home and do nothing .

We will see a major change !

Ah me sleepy again, cya all from work !

I think you’re right; some women and their parents put too much stress on financial stability. At the same time, I do think that there needs to be some indication that the guy and the girl will be able to lead productive and comfortable lives. There needs to be some potential for financial stability – even if they’re not rich. I don’t get the people (and I’ve seen it happen A LOT) who turn down a rishta because they’re only looking for a doctor!

@teggy

just adding to Aliyish and X2, i think it has to do with what you expect and the mindset. I know for a fact when we guys are looking for a girl, we’re thinking this as well ‘why him/her?’ what can she bring to my life that isn’t there already. For girls i suppose they think ‘what can he do for me?’…
If ladies would just be a lil more understanding and have the courage to face challenges the couple may face it’ll def. help. I think most ppl that are out of Pak., specifically US/CAN/UK have a bias for ppl from the same region because they think (including me) that communication would be a major issue. I don’t know how much of that is a fact and true in practicality, but that may be another factor that contributes to having second thoughts about marrying a native from back home.
Maybe someone who married in these conditions can shed some light on this?..

I think most girls are willing to work toward building financial stability with their husbands. But I think there continue to be concerns because these days many women are financially established and have fairly lucrative careers – many people feel that they need to find a husband who can “match” this in order to have a successful marriage.

@teggy

Yes i know how influential parents role is in the whole process, but that’s where you as a responsible child have to educate your (not specifically you, i’m using in general) parents on what IS important and what ISN’T. i mean fine you find a guy that fits the financial criteria, but what if he lacks education and that reflects on his character, his way of thinking, his way of respecting you and your wishes. Would u want to suffer that transition? i know parents want the best for their child whether it be the guy or the girl. But both have to think modestly. I guess to some bling bling and what the guy has counts more than his character as a person, and a family man. But that has serious consequences down the road. Whereas, if you have seen how he got to where he is and you were there all along, he’ll appreciate you more because you stuck with him and gave him emotional support, and you’ll get a guy who’s great in personality and has everything else as well.
Like my friend Aliyish said, you cannot expect to have your cake and eat it too. Compromising starts from the day you start looking for a partner, u have to be willing to give in where it’s needed, whether it be you or your parents. Parents can be emotional and overshoot the qualities they need to really look for in a guy.

I remember when I was younger some auntie said to my mother, “I know two goodlooking (=fairskinned) twins from a very good family. One’s a doctor, one’s a lawyer. Pick one for your daughter.” She could not understand why my mother didn’t get me engaged immediately! There was no question about compatibility, trust, respect, etc. Just careers. My husband isn’t earning tons of money, but mashAllah we are well off, and I am happy with him because I don’t know anyone with this kind of gentle, trustworthy, and kind disposition. Plus he makes me laugh

@teggy

Personally, i look for education, character and personality before wealth or any of that. The girl could be less well-off, but as long as she’s educated, has a great personality, and comes from a nice family (i’m not too big on that either..my concern would be the girl herself), then she’s fine for me. no worries.

Most of the people in my circle of friends are looking for the same – so what’s the trouble??

@Iconoclast

Its always difficult to find one from own community when u are a minority in a country and people are spread across the whole country.

Why don’t Desi’s arrange matrimonial services.

Well, I do think that Muslim desis need to become more open-minded about giving more opportunities for people to meet. There need to be more places that are appropriate and acceptable, that don’t make people feel guilty or sinful, where two people meet and interact.

Any ideas?

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

I also think that sometimes people don't want to recommend someone to someone else because they are afraid of insulting the other person -- even if there is nothing really "wrong" with the individual.

For example: My aunt knew of a guy who is really great, educated, good-looking, friendly, respectful, etc, and wants to get married. But he's also divorced. She knows a girl in her 30s who is still looking. Though my aunt doesn't think there's anything wrong with the guy, and she doesn't think there's anything wrong with the girl marrying him, she is afraid that the girl and her parents will be insulted if she suggests a divorced guy as a potential rishta.

[Dushwari]

Re: Are we screwed?

and those marriages, are miserable. because somebody else is expecting you to run your life for you.

loving parents never do so. they need to be made to understand that they ar wrong in complicating and destroying a relationship that a given person tried to make with a self searched and approached but then the man's will was nullified.
horribble. and the saddest thing is that later on alone, he has a constant resentment for his parents.

in case of women who are arranged marriaged, the same.

ideally, marriages must be blessed by parents happily, when their mature adult children indicate that they like somebody and have an open mind.
because there are neve any guarantees in this relationship up until the pooint that this person looks straight into your eyes and says that he or in case men, that she will happliy welcome the other person as life partner.

come backs, first times with pure intent this way, will never go wrong in forging a noble pact of companionship between wife and husband.
it must be a beautiful thing, if created together.
may all marriages happen like this and maintained by the spouses against all factors. amen.
Duahwari

[somegroovychick]

Re: Are we screwed?

well i know i went through something similar... my parents were "looking" for me, and i even had to go through one very dreadful experience where i actually did serve chai to the people, and i ended up behaving like the worst kind of person- i was rude, i was stand off-ish, and unlike myself entirely, and it was mainly because i was outraged at my folks. i understood now, that yes, my parents would like me to settle, but whether that was because they were in a period of temporary craziness or whether they were just panicking because i was 22 already with no marriage prospects, i couldn't believe i would be displayed like that.

keep in mind, my parents are both well-educated and have travelled extensively but i truly think that in their case, and probably other such cases too, the lack of experience and the dearth of pressure to see me settled happily, made them a little bit nuts. they reverted back to the thinking they grew up with from a long, long time ago, in a place far, far away, that just didn't apply anymore- not to me, not to my lifestyle or my future plans.

so when i see parents being pushy, i sympathise. its all too easy to blame them as being the perpetrators of this pushiness, but i know from my experience, my parents just didn't have a clue. and how could they? they'd never married anyone before, let alone their own, and only daughter! their own expectations of their behaviour were so high, i think they got lost in the process and the politics.

and i think if more and more people were understanding of this, and as a societal whole, thinking changed so as to eliminate the panic many parents feel when the 25 year old cut off point arrives, then things will be better.
there needs to be much more communication between kids and parents about expectations and life plans and parents really do need to understand their kids are able to think for themselves without automatically being classified as "teyz" or "chalaak".

theres too many myths and stereotypes around desi guys and girls born and raised abroad and its going to take a hell of a lot of people to change their thinking for us to make any progress. its pretty ironic to me too that a lot of the desi kids raised abroad are actually more desi and more culturally aware and more tuned into their religion, than the kids being raised in pakistan. its like parents come here and fight so hard to establish themselves and when its time to raise children, finding that balance between desi and western culture is something that gets thrown out the window. i think kids anywhere, in or out of pakistan, need to be raised with balance.

it makes me really sad when my 22 year old cousin in pakistan discusses marriage. she's graduating from med school and she knows that shes going to get married right after. she knows she'll marry someone her parents choose, shes resigned herself to not really getting to know her future husband until after they're man and wife, and she's hoping to meet someone from abroad so she can move out of the country. i mean, it comes down to something so factual, it pains me. i know marriage isn't all love and chocolate and roses, but there needs to be something more. it can't just be, oh he's got x, y and z, and they equal 20 so, hey! you're a match!

i feel the desi process removes the fun from it... how about spending time with each other? how about getting to know one another? i know the older folk always say oh theres time for that after marriage, but what if you don't like him then, or he, you? why should you be forced to stay in a situation that doesn't make you happy? that isn't compromise... thats sacrifice. the fear of not knowing what else is out there, and the fear of having "you can't make your own decisions, your parents know best" drilled into you, is another issue i have problems with. as for spending time with one another not being Islamically acceptable, so long as you have a mehram with you, theres way around it.

who knows, maybe if my folks had given me some breathing room, i would have found myself a desi guy, as they wanted me to. having said that, i'm totally happy with my gora :) and they're totally happy with him too. things end up working out either way, most of the time anyway...

hrm, theres just too much more i want to add, but im going to focus my thoughts and come back. great topic, sahar! and sorry, i just realised i'm only partially on topic!

[Sara516]

Re: Are we screwed?

^ So is it demeaning if hte girl actually wants to dress up? The same thing kinda happened to me (I know, shocking right!) and i wish i’d at least dressed nicer. but in teh end it was my big mouth that got me in trouble so its not like it made much of a difference how i looked. Anyways, i just thank my lucky stars that i don’t have to worry about this stuff anymore (and hopefully wont have to in the future inshAllah)…

Man this is such a day for depressing lectures

[somegroovychick]

Re: Are we screwed?

sara, no its not demeaning at all, and i dont think thats what sahar was saying... i think what is offensive, as sahar said, and i agree, is the concept of dressing up to showcase yourself as a "marketable product" <-- and that happens when you're not usually into dressing up but then your parents all of a sudden demand fancy clothes and lots of makeup because these particular people are coming over to check you out and its "important" you look good.

i think if it was presented differently, it might end differently, but to pursue the point of you being a showpiece for the benefit of someone else's pleasure, especially someone you've never laid eyes on before... well thats just insulting.

i know thats another thing that made me act up. after about two rishta's and one conversation about someone'e son who was 7 years older than me and lived in his parent's basement, i fully put my foot down. i just couldn't compromise my principles to the extent that it was demanded, and i was so freakin' uncomfortable with all of it, and i think its what actually got the message across to my folks finally.

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

^ Exactly.

[TiLl_LuK]

Re: Are we screwed?

[quote="Sahar02"]

Thanks for all the replies, all! I'm going to start replying now.

What's the age cut off in your mind? In your parents? What makes them think that finding a mate in Pakistan will be easier? Is it?

Here in London (elsewhere too) when majority of Pakistani girls reach the age of 19 parents start seeking a rishta for her, when she's 21 parents start worrying!...when 22 parents give her 1 year to find a spouse- then all these girls in desperation rush to the online matrimonal services and ask friends if they have any cousins or brothers who are up for marriage. This age limitation is not only in my parents, but all my friends be it hindu/sikh / pakistanis hold the same mentalilty!... a girl should be gone by the age of 23...if shes still there then chances are shes goin back to homeland. There are some girls who are career minded and tend to rest on this marriage issue for a bit, but once there are ready it is even harder for them to find their spouse because of their high expectations, some don't find any and hit there early 30's...therefore i persoanlly feel its better to be married off in your early 20's.

Reason finding a partner in Pakistan is easier because firslty there won't be any sort of 'seeking the science of mental compatibility' with a potential there- as in my family decisions of yes/no are only based on the appearance i.e. facial cover etc, secondly since theres the whole extended 'baradarai' system there, relatives tend to have a large list of hungry Paky boys who want to meet the west, therefore rishta in Pakistan can be done in no time!....

Good Luck!

[TiLl_LuK]

Re: Are we screwed?

@Iconoclast

Its always difficult to find one from own community when u are a minority in a country and people are spread across the whole country.

Why don't Desi's arrange matrimonial services.

lol!...the only source avaliable is the internet mariage sites which kinda sucks...:D

[somegroovychick]

Re: Are we screwed?

@TiLl_LuK

therefore i persoanlly feel its better to be married off in your early 20's.

the term "married off" pisses me off to no end. lol
its like you're "sold off" or told to "shove off".
like you're someone's property that has to be taken care of-- it completely dehumanizes the process.
why do people use it?
why can't they just say "you're married"??

[TiLl_LuK]

Re: Are we screwed?

@somegroovychick

the term "married off" pisses me off to no end. lol its like you're "sold off" or told to "shove off". like you're someone's property that has to be taken care of-- it completely dehumanizes the process. why do people use it? why can't they just say "you're married"??

I see where your coming from, but We've never really thought about it like that, every1 uses it here and has become quite common, i personally see nothin wrong with it either.

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

@TiLl_LuK

Here in London (elsewhere too) when majority of Pakistani girls reach the age of 19 parents start seeking a rishta for her, when she's 21 parents start worrying!...when 22 parents give her 1 year to find a spouse- then all these girls in desperation rush to the online matrimonal services and ask friends if they have any cousins or brothers who are up for marriage. This age limitation is not only in my parents, but all my friends be it hindu/sikh / pakistanis hold the same mentalilty!... a girl should be gone by the age of 23...if shes still there then chances are shes goin back to homeland. There are some girls who are career minded and tend to rest on this marriage issue for a bit, but once there are ready it is even harder for them to find their spouse because of their high expectations, some don't find any and hit there early 30's...therefore i persoanlly feel its better to be married off in your early 20's.

Reason finding a partner in Pakistan is easier because firslty there won't be any sort of 'seeking the science of mental compatibility' with a potential there- as in my family decisions of yes/no are only based on the appearance i.e. facial cover etc, secondly since theres the whole extended 'baradarai' system there, relatives tend to have a large list of hungry Paky boys who want to meet the west, therefore rishta in Pakistan can be done in no time!....

Good Luck!

My instinct is to say that this is very sad and terrible. Why on earth would you marry your girls off so young, if they're not ready? And then why marry them off to opportunistic guys who are using them for a green card?

That sounds so sad and terrible!!

And yet, is their wisdom in this? Should we get married young before it's too late?

--

A lot of the women in their thirties whom I know who are looking for a spouse I think were some of the first in their community to become "marriageable." When they were in their early twenties marriage was still this mysterious thing that could be restrictive, given the lives their parents led. They did not see examples of how to adapt marriage to fit their "fusion" style. So they delayed marriage for careers and education.

And now they think it's "too late."

[Dushwari]

Re: Are we screwed?

the basis of a happy marriage is open heart and minds and a free will power enabled by self confidence of taking on someone who one took the time to know and bbegin to like.

there may be no one in the community who is going to say, 'oh your son is 30 yrs old, why is he not married. double standards are a major reason why people are marrying at the wrong places, and not marrying at all or marrying unhappily.

plain field of equality for both women and men, must be created and only then, happy marriages can com about.

deception has no place in being accorded true regard.
a come back can be successful only when the person who hurried indicates that he/she is realizant of their misdeed. young Muslim women and men must have values and they must have fear of Allah swt when they aproach each other and not betray anyone and if that is the end result, they must not approach each othr in the first place.

[system]

Re: Are we screwed?

It makes me laugh to read people here proclaiming themselves as feminists and social reformers, when really what they are is the worst and most uncritical type of feminists i.e. liberal feminists (look up the meaning) who always work and stay within the status quo and never question it or societal tyranny. As for "social reform" please read some real revolutionaries who will make you realize what real social reform is. Staying within the hegemonic confines of the status quo does not a social reformer make, it only makes you the reason for a good laugh among real reformers whose every word and step is an occasion to break the order and who abide by no norm at any cost.

These comments are off topic but this is what jumped out for me in this thread. In fact, this whole thread, with its simultaneous questioning of marriage and yet the paradoxical yielding to marriage is evidence of how even in supposedly modernized and westernized so-called ABCDs, the staleness of traditional Pakistani conceptions of marriages still lives vibrantly, just in a new guise.

As for my response to the specific topic at hand, yes ABCD women are "screwed" but instead of welcoming this as a launching pad toward real revolutionary change (i.e. questioning marriage itself as an essentially capitalist institution that arose simultaneously with agrarian culture and thus constitutes the possession of women, and challenging old ways of having children and indeed the stifling concept of having children within a nuclear family i.e. parented by two), they bemoan their unmarried fate. In my opinion, this failure is what screws them into becoming the latest in the eternal line of pallbearers carrying dead ideals that should have been buried centuries ago.

[somegroovychick]

Re: Are we screwed?

interesting POV...

i think a real reformer is one who adapts an existing environment and situation to suit themselves, and in doing so, changes old processes. getting married does not mean you're not a reformer or not a feminist... its how you get married and to whom you get married and when you get married that matters- at least in this context. its the change in thinking, and the acts that follow, that matter.
as for questioning marriage and old ways of having children, people were created with one basic instinct- survival. and one of the primary ways of doing that, is procreation. having children out of marriage is something that is religiously unacceptable and therefore will never be permissible in desi society, insofar as i can see. do you see that happening ever? frankly, i don't find it a reasonable or feasible approach to reform. instead, how about marrying whom you want to, instead of someone who fits the financial and educational criteria society demands, and then making sure your children follow through and so on and so forth? the way our society stands, and in this i speak from personal experience, that is pretty reformist in and of itself.

[S02]

Re: Are we screwed?

Existentialist,

You bring up some good points.

It makes me laugh to read people here proclaiming themselves as feminists and social reformers, when really what they are is the worst and most uncritical type of feminists i.e. liberal feminists (look up the meaning) who always work and stay within the status quo and never question it or societal tyranny. As for "social reform" please read some real revolutionaries who will make you realize what real social reform is. Staying within the hegemonic confines of the status quo does not a social reformer make, it only makes you the reason for a good laugh among real reformers whose every word and step is an occasion to break the order and who abide by no norm at any cost.

You're right; the beginning of reform is to question the basic assumptions we live by. Is marriage a "good" societal construction? Is it a necessary one?

These are questions that have been asked for a long time and became central to revolutionary discussions in the 1960s. However, you probably also know that completely opposing a societal construct is, in a way, showing its influence and power. To say, I don't believe in marriage is to recognize marriage as a force in society. In addition, to suggest that you don't want marriage to limit you and to then stay away from it is to limit yourself.

Now the above ideas have become part of the "cultural norm" and people have begun to question them. I think conversations have moved back, where people question whether or not they have to choose. Do women have to be domestic OR professional? Do they have to be butch or lipstick? Is the cultural imperative to choose a realistic one? Is it a justified one?
**
Is it wrong **to *want *to be married?

Can we redefine marriage and other societal constructs that have traditionally been seen to restrict women, so that they can be forms of liberation as well? Can we liberate ourselves from a narrow-minded form of feminism?

[quote]
These comments are off topic but this is what jumped out for me in this thread. In fact, this whole thread, with its simultaneous questioning of marriage and yet the paradoxical yielding to marriage is evidence of how even in supposedly modernized and westernized so-called ABCDs, the staleness of traditional Pakistani conceptions of marriages still lives vibrantly, just in a new guise.
[/quote]
I think this is exactly what many people are struggling with. Their upbringing that emphasizes the individual, the intellectual, and the moral, and these cultural expectations and norms that seem to imposed upon them to fit certain roles.

Part of the problem is what I said in my previous post; many of the women currently in their thirties who do want to be married now rebelled against marriage in their twenties. Did they change things? Did they succeed in opening people's minds? Did they succeed in their own individual ambitions?

Did they hurt themselves in the process?

[quote]
As for my response to the specific topic at hand, yes ABCD women are "screwed" but instead of welcoming this as a launching pad toward real revolutionary change (i.e. questioning marriage itself as an essentially capitalist institution that arose simultaneously with agrarian culture and thus constitutes the possession of women, and challenging old ways of having children and indeed the stifling concept of having children within a nuclear family i.e. parented by two), they bemoan their unmarried fate. In my opinion, this failure is what screws them into becoming the latest in the eternal line of pallbearers carrying dead ideals that should have been buried centuries ago.
[/QUOTE]

I think when originally posted this, I wasn't referring to the AD women as "screwed," but the community at large who bears some responsibility toward them. You're right; I know some of these women who mope and mourn their lives -- they're only in their thirties! -- as if they have been wronged somehow. Sometimes they see and are thankful for what they have. However, other times they are overwhelmed by the idea that there is an opportunity that is fast fading away.

Even the women I know that are usually pretty positive and upbeat about their unmarried lives, who have succeeded in their careers and in their homes, still have yearnings for a married life. Maybe it's just because it's something they don't have (and have always been told they should have) and therefore remains an intangible goal.

--
I think we've all fairly well identified the problem. The question is, how do we change things?

[xlusively_me]

Re: Are we screwed?

in my opinion it can all come down on destiny, i know of girls who got proposed just by being seen in religious gatherings or weddings or to family friends, girls who never had relationships with these guys or other guys prior to their engagements... i think your going to get your destiny you just choose the path in how your going to get there? socializing can be a key to marriage.

[TeenDabbyWala]

Re: Are we screwed?

Seems like girls are more screwed. Seems like guys have this attitude that desi girl is second preference, gori first. And desi guys can also openly "play the field". For girls that's a little hard.

I know its already been mentioned in this topic.

[Scratch]

Re: Are we screwed?

Questioning marriage? Old way of having children? Marriage is restrictive to women? Is it liberating to men ?

bhai, all this makes for great intellectual discussion but someone please tell me what is it that we are trying to achieve? What level of non-restrictiveness and liberation will finally satisfy women? Why is this all so complicated for us?

May be it will help if we try to just not think from a materialistic point of view and realize that most men and women still have emotional, physical and support needs that make them question their erstwhile rebellious (and thus popular) behavior later on in their lives?