Are we allowed to choose our Fiqha of Islam?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Dear Ibne Sadique,

Assalam ale kum,

Infact you have given the statistics of those shia who do mattam. And I took shia to all those who believe in Ali as first imam. This includes

Agha khanis
Zaidis of yamen and saudia
Bohris all over Darouzis all over
Pervezies all over
shia main stream
Darouzis all over etc etc
There are alvies in turkey and syria
and huriees etc etc
Also there are people who take NAOUZOUBILLA as GOD; do you know it; as he was born in kaaba.
Did you see the movie mouloud e kaaba?

Exactly like Wahabies are main stream sunnis and other four fiqhas also are called sunnis, because they all take abu bakar(R) as first khalifa

Thanks a lot for your concern to attempt to help me to find right path.

My main concern is, are all those in huge popullation are mad to take Ali as first imam? since this is the most important thing in question, for me.

wassalam sokoon

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *

You save me the trouble and let me know who is the best student of Imam Jaffar (ra)?
[/QUOTE]
Abu Musa Jabir bin Hayyan was a disciple of Hazrat Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (A.S). He was born on 742 and is reported to be practicing medicine in Kufa (Iraq) in 776 AD. He died in 803. Reported to have left more than 100 monumental treatises of which 22 relate to chemistry . One of the main contributions of Jabir is that he introduced the concept of 'laboratory' and scientific technique of Experimental investigation which later paved the way for greater discoveries in the realm of sciences. Sarton writes "Study of Jabir's books on chemistry reveal best possible mode of conducting research. He introduced norms and techniques for improving several metals, making steel, coloring leather, applying varnish to waterproof cloth, protecting iron from rusting, glass manufacture and gold lettering. He was of the opinion that copper and iron can be converted into gold by combining it with certain chemicals. It is reported that he did eventually succeed in converting other metals into gold . It is reported that after two centuries when his laboratory was dug up for constructing road substantial quantity of gold was recovered.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
You save me the trouble and let me know who is the best student of Imam Jaffar (ra)?
[/QUOTE]
Imam Jaffar(A.S.) trained famous and well-known men in various fields of knowledge the names of some of them are as follows:

  1. Zurara and Mohammad Bin Muslim in jurisprudence.
  2. Hisham and Momin ut Taq in beliefs and kalam (discourse).
  3. Muffazil and Safwan in Gnosticism and Islamic learning.
  4. Jabbir Bin Hayyan in mathematics and sciences.

Many other glorious men each of whom became the founder of various Islamic Learning's and arts so that for many years their books had been translated and taught in Europe.

44

inuit, could you substantiate your assertions with sources?

45

Oh my bad, This happends when you stay awake too long. Thanx for the correction. I wanted to write Abo Hanifa and Malik bin Anas. Thx again for the correction.

Naadir please correct the records. thx :slight_smile:

Some more info on Imam Jaffar al-Sadiq (as) :

In addition to his knowledge of Islamic sciences, Jafar was well educated in natural sciences, mathematics, philosophy, astronomy, anatomy, chemistry (alchemy), and other subjects. The foremost Islamic alchemist Jabir Ibn Hayyan (known in Europe as Geber) was his most prominent student. Other famous students of his were Abu Hanifa and Malik Ibn Anas, the founders of two Sunni schools of jurisprudence, and Wasil ibn Ata, the founder of the Mutazilite school of Islamic thought. Jafar was known for his liberal views on learning, and was keen to debate with scholars of different faiths and of different beliefs.

Source

46

AoA,

Dear Sokoon,

It is a fact that a lot of material that we take for granted does not bear scrutiny. Moreso that many of our people are against such scrutiny. But that does not necessarily lead one to renounce one's own fiqh and embrace another. There is actually a better way.

I believe all fiqhas in Islam at least agree on three things:

  1. Allah is God Almighty
  2. Mohammad is his Messenger (the greatest and the last one)
  3. Quran is Allah's Message and a guide for us (which is unchanged in any respect - proven through Allah's own statement in Quran)

OK. Now here is the better alternative to changing fiqah and stepping on too many toes.

If you believe your fiqah is right, then it should be derivable from the Quran. If not directly, then first establish some intermediate source as derivable from Quran and then proceed from there. It is just like maths.

This is an approach open to all. But this is the more difficult path and I believe, the right path.

You would realize that one can not get very far in a lifetime. This is going to be a long trail. But we can start that trail.

Now what to do in the meanwhile? It is a principle of Islam and common sense that somebody is innocent until proven guilty. Applied to statements and beliefs, it should be: a belief is true until proven false. So, we need not go to the extreme of declaring other fiqah's as on the wrong path. We should rather show tolerance (Urdu word "rawadary" is better). Also, why this insistence on fiqah at all? I know I am satisfied being a Muslim only and I explicitly state that I follow no fiqah and no sect. Put another way, I try to be a Muslim only just as Prophet Muhammad was a Muslim only. He (peace be upon him) was not sunni nor shia nor of any other fiqah. And if any of my brothers or sisters declares himself to be Muslim (of any fiqah whatsoever) then I am more than happy.

My point is, put your Islam first and not your sect first. And if you want to really do a service to Islam and your sect, then take the first step in proving it conforming to Quran.

Regards,
worried.

47

[quote]
worried wrote: *My point is, put your Islam first and not your sect first. And if you want to really do a service to Islam and your sect, then take the first step in proving it conforming to Quran.
[/quote]
** the teachings your sect gives you is the best of Islam, other then that is not the correct; its fabricated, impure, and false; so put your true Islam first and leave all impurities. ***

48

Jazakallah Khayrann - worried - This is the most appropriate post on this thread.

Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (ra) was foremost a religious scholar and authority. So, his first and foremost priority would be to impart religious knowledge.

Jabir Ibn Hayyan, was a great scientist and mathematician is not known as a religious scholar.

So he cannot be passed off as inheritor or successor of Imam Jaffar’s (ra) religious knowledge. Scientific knowledge, Yes, but not religious.

Only Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik Ibn Anas (ra) are the most known and successful students of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (ra) even though that they had studied under many other notable scholars of the time.

Abu Hanifah (al-Nu’man ibn Thabit) - born 699, Kufah, Iraq - died 767, Baghdad

Muslim jurist and theologian.

The son of a merchant in Kufah, he gained wealth in the silk trade and studied law under the noted jurist Hammad. After Hammad’s death (738), Abu Hanifah became his successor. He was the first to develop systematic legal doctrines from the accumulated Islamic legal tradition. Primarily a scholar, he neither accepted a judgeship nor took direct part in court politics; he supported the successors of 'Ali over the ruling Umayyad and 'Abbasid dynasties. His doctrinal system became one of four canonical schools of Islamic law (Sharia) and is still widely followed in India, Pakistan, Turkey, Central Asia, and Arab countries.

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=379752

Nearly 50% of Muslims follow his fiqh.

I would like to know that too.

49

Worried : very well said.
Alhamdolillah, like you, I am also satisfied and proud to be a muslim.

50

An introduction to eighth infallible Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq (AS)

another link..
http://www.imam-hussein.org/english/8infallible.htm

51

^ inuit Is that the best you could do?

Evidently the article in the link has failed to mention anything about Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) and Imam Malik (ra). I wonder why?

52

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
^ **inuit* Is that the best you could do?

Evidently the article in the link has failed to mention anything about Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) and Imam Malik (ra). I wonder why?
[/QUOTE]
because they lost whatever they learnt in two years and they built their own 1 1/2 brick mosque which was against the Imams of Ahle bait(AS). They allowed anti-Ahlebait(AS) people to come close to them. Some of them turn to Whahabiyat. and started following Ibn Tammyiah.

53

Re: worried

Hi!!!

Thanks worried. Infact I am fed up with discussions of grandpas, parents, friends and even on forums. Every one stops you from discussion and brings ahadeez quotations as baricades. And if you still continue discussion they start abusing. This is what main stream muslims do.Actually they are weak in their believe, otherwise one can explain things logically also. No hadeez can be abrupt or totally ununderstandable, hadeez must also be logical.

So I thought it is better to change the fiqha, as I read a few books of Dr. Ahmed Tejani of Tunis. He used to discuss like me, and he had to go jameya alazhar, for discussion,and he was totally unsatisfied ,rather he started thinking what he believes is totally a religion which is based on:

How to disagree and how to manipulate ones disagreement.
How to be stuborn, no matter if one has to concoct some ahadeez.

It gave me strength to think, to better, change the fiqha. As already I had the following personal experience, directly. But at that time I was so young, that I was not able to speak against them, that how do they feel and how do they justify their fiqh, just by nullifying others by falsifying thing(ahadeez), and reprinting.

I -sokoon is a personal witness of moullana pro. Gafour of jamate islami and also of one person who was frm panjabi soudagaran; they had changed and printed the changed ahadeez infront of my eyes, as I used to be with the same publisher for my books to be printed. Also I was teaching myself with pro. Ghafour. and I have listen how they used to critisize other fiqh and for false satisfaction, they used to invent ahadeez and print. etc etc and how----???

In our country people do not let you do what you feel to do. As if some people are custodians of religion,although they hardly have any thing personal, except old books.

I never forget that quran says aqal waloun ka leye and samaj waloun ka leye quran kafee hei.

Ahjadeez do not fit to todays culture, todays environment at all. They were all suitable for stone age, when there were no cement, no cars,aeroplanes ,no airconditions etc etc. If we want to use the same ahadeez, now one has to sit and reinterpret them as new version for today's technically advanced environment; to make them applicable.

But many other fiqhas have easy path, no confusion,you discuss ,you get answers over answers, not abuses and baricades of ahadeez of old sayings.

So I thought to see into those fiqha . As I believe every one is answerable to GOD individually.

No sheikh would be there. He would be there in his own problems.

Now they talk too much, knowingly that they are not answerable for others. It is money that speaks, if they do not do this their money TARSEAL would close.And we -the popullation is in problem. I am not saying to all sheikhs. Those who talk too much. There are good ones, who stay quite, and do alla alla are nice ones to self. Bye Sokoon

54

Maybe you are right. :slight_smile: I have read about people changing their fiqhs and things that really worry them is the parents, so I naturally thought about the parents too. And then here we are talking about changing fiqhs not religion.

Waisay, long time no see :wave: Kaisay ho? Btw how was it when you changed your fiqh? PM me about it or if you like - don’t. I won’t mind. :slight_smile:

55

I won’t be surprised if that happens. Waisay sunnis also read this story about Hazrat Fatima (a.s). They call it “Janabe Fatima(a.s.) kee kahanee”

Waisay we just had a thread about it a while back. Let me dig it up for you. Here you go

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142013

I scan the stories too so you can it read as well to know what exactly the story is about. :slight_smile:

56

Re: little human

Dear little human,

Assalam mun ale kum,

Do you know the fiqh I am seeking to follow is also not much different from Shias.

They follow touheed.
But they do not say shirk if some child asks milk from mother.
Or if one poor ,needy and asks some money from rich.

Or some one goes to any most renowned person who is very close to God in the sense that GOD always answers his/her prayers.

I know a family her mother used to be very Alla wali (though fashionable), very rich but religious.

If she used to pray for some one it used be accepted by GOd immediately.

I know a WAQEAA that some one had declared severe colon sickness. That lady was passing blood atleast half a glass when she used to pass stool. Very rich people, from owners of some bank.They had been all over for treatment. They came to this lady as they were neighbours when they were young in karachi jamsheed road #! and asked and requested for prayers. And stayed with her overnight.

That lady prayed aloud from mohammed and aale mohammed and also quitely, while tears were in her eyes. In the morning she asked that lady to go to toilet you would not pass blood. She was too resistant to go, she was afraid of passing blood as usual. But when she was asked to go and the fashionable lady said I am telling you from today you would not pass blood. She went to pass ,no blood, till date she never ever passes blood.

So come on, learn to follow these thing? sheirk is to bring some one against soraei touheed. For example, GOD has wife, God has sons, or God has daughters etc etc. Praying with such people is no shierk as GOD has appointed people for different tasks. For example malik ul mout. God does not do all jobs directly. He himself says in soraei AHzab that I say salawat on Ibrahim and alle ibrahim, Mohammed and alle mohammed you also say as it is their right. So this is the only job God says he does nothing else. So may be some one who is syed has TAaseer IN HIS PRAYERS. tHIS IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF BARELVIS ALSO.

sO QADRIS' welayat who are syed and

And others who are direct decendent of ALI and fatima are waliallah, if they are ebadat guzar they are close to GOD.

How do you not know sheirk's definition?, although you know mushrakeen are christians and jews according to soraei touheed. And they both do sheirks.

Reading certain kahani and believing in that, if it is not immoral and touches your heart, and helps you to concentrate towards alla,his prophet and his family---and fatima ,the only daughter from which you have shurafas all over the world, is no harm. Believe is required ,if some one says I believe in salawat ,the one you read in Namaz but you do not have eman FE qouloub then you would for sure get upset if some one believes in fatima that way . When GOD is saying salawat on her and her father and her children and her husband. I do not know what else is required to convince you that they are different to who so ever you want to protect by saying them less.

If the ones you like and love the most for example (AEYEHA(R), who was step mother of fatima.

If you can not take her to the level of fatima you think better pull fatima down. Remember all of them are not present now. Seek truth. Nafrat baraee nafrat hum logoun key akherat kharab karey ge, or kouch bei nahein.

Kesee kou mohabat karnei per pahra maet betdahou.

God himself says I say salawat on mohammed wa alle mohammed and ask you to say the same and says ,say it as it is their right.

Do believe him(GOD) atleast more than you believe in blindly. He is at the end, qadire mutlaq.. He would select jannat and jahannum for us not ---??? wo tou khud hath pahlaei kharey houn kay, pareshan pereshan----intezar mey ka keya houta hei.

Select better among the good ones.Akherat ka khayal karou. Chou rou sub chackaroun kou, ka kis key namous key zimadari hei kandhoun per. Wahan hashr mein sub ko apne apne pare hou ge.

Bye sokoon

57

please let me know where allah says he sends his salawat on aale muhamamd :saw:, i would appreciate it.
and it is pointless to talk about shirk with barelvis and shias..it would be better to hit my head to the wall, so i wont go on that issue.

58

Please let me know where Allah says NOT to send Salawat on Aale Muhamamd(PBUH&HA) , I would appreciate it. Thanks

59

please let me know where allah says i can NOT smoke cocain? he just tells us not to drink vine, but no mention of cocain..so can i smoke it?
in religion we follow the guidelines set by allah as told by rasul :saw: and narrated to us by the pious predecessors, we dont use crappy logic to prove our point.

60

Hi!!!

There was a court case in Pakistan between different firqas, find it out. Later one or all the three firqas-- of Barelvi , shias or hanafies won the case in favour of the salawat which you hear from all the TV channels.

( terjuma saath he likha houta hei)

It is compulsory to read it like that. It was a munazra kind of case. They all had discussed SALAWAT with Quran, and all kind of possible ahadeez.

So it is there.

Also if you do not want to complicate the meaning of Douroude Ibrahemi. Starting from Allah huma--------upto inna ka hameed dul majeed. It is there in souraei al ahzab of quran .

This salawat is compulsory in most of the fiqhas in all Namaz.

It has the same meaning if some one has not yet changed the meaning of this aayat, by typical trick of doing research on the grammar of any such aayat, which is under contrversial meanings; --- poor simple aayats of a most simple language of the world ARABIC.

(It is an old trick to change the meaning of aayate Qurani by changing and introducing new kind of grammar to receive the wanted meaning for self satisfaction from any aayat under argument. There are still many AAyat under process for last more than 1400 years, and research on their grammar is not yet completed)
Bye sokoon