Re: Are they going too fast ?
Microwave, fridge, vacuum cleaner and bijli don’t show adult material I think. 8-|
Re: Are they going too fast ?
PCG - I don’t think it is indecent topic(these are real world problems). But we are not ready for this type of openness. You may not be able to understand, how conservative our society is, and People are generally 10 times more conservative then myself.
It is huge gab between brought up in west and here. You may not have slightest of problem if they discuss problems related to (consensual)homosexuality… as it is very common over there.
But over here it would be disgusting to say the least. As this evil is very rare, and people do not want to hear about this BS.
Not the same with child molestation, where lot of awareness is required in our society. I will support if tv channel discuss it in proper manner and aware people about how to be careful and vigilant :k:
It is very deep rooted problem and people know abt this but may not accept it easily. Call it hipocrisy, but thats the way it is.
Like homosexuality, the issue discussed in that program is also very rare in pakistan.
The response (* in that tv program*) suggested that it is common and known problem, which is most definitlely not the case.
I am not in favour of rating system on desi channels …Yet.
I am in fovour of discussing taboo issues which are common in Pakistan like “child abuse”, on public channels without any rating
but I am against discussing those issues which are extremely rare(* the one i am talking about in my earlier posts*) on public channels. They should be answered privately. IMO
Re: Are they going too fast ?
you sited emotional and physical abuse as the topic that was being discussed, then you say you’re okay with those topics.
So, exactly what was the topic being discussed and why do you feel its taboo? This is a pretty lame debate when we dont even know what’s the topic of debate.
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sorry, last post was not clear.Now edited.
I am afraid, I can not explain it any further. The description is pretty clear. If it is not clear for you then, better leave it. It is not a matter of life and death
Re: Are they going too fast ?
she made honest & serious sense pirawa :k: :k: :k: :k:
Re: Are they going too fast ?
^
No doubt whatsoever :k::k::k:
Re: Are they going too fast ?
CR, since when has rating anything stopped ppl from exploring topics of interest? A large number of Pakistanis have access to cable or internet, they show pretty much anything.
"(these are real world problems). But we are not ready for this type of openness."
"and people do not want to hear about this BS"
If ppl are committing these crimes and you have living and breathing victims, there shouldn't be any option of what ppl want and can listen to. These programs should be educative for not only ppl in large, but also help identify culprits and victims to provide timely help.
Sure there should be ratings on 'entertainment shows', or if something is too graphical, but social ills can not be rated.
As for homosexuality not being normal in Pakistan, the ill is there and has been for decades. There's a whole culture of abusing young boys, I'm sure there's a thread on this in culture forum, and it's pretty common to hear about bi-sexual / gay culture of Pakistan, so the program was correct. If ppl like me can hear about this, during a 2 weeks vacation, it must be pretty widely spread.
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Codie yaar, what is “appropriate” method of discussing mature topics? Like showing shoving of a Candle into a Melon to demonstrate child molestation? Kids know darn well what goes on in our society, and there’s no harm in showing this stuff on TV. In a typical Desi household, with multifamily system, a whole clan lives under one roof and everything goes. Boys and girls in my village are sexually active by age 8, and know more about different positions and methods than their parents.
It’s about time that media discusses these things in the open. But I agree with you that at least elementary education should have a sex education element, so 6,7, and 8 year old kids can learn about what is sexual in nature, and what is only suitable for adults, and other basic things about sex.
It’s sad to see that our whole culture revolves around sex.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
Thats why i do not favour any rating 
Actually, during our brought up, we were lucky to have one or two family channels. Where they never showed anything which was even slightly objectionable, or one would feel hesitant to watch with family.
Now if a popular channel starts showing a discussion which I feel uncomfirtable even watching alone, that is a giant leap. Very hard to digest.
I have no problems with foreign channel, cuz that is alien.
You are mixing two seperate things, The child sexual abuse is common in Pakistan. Not Adult homosexuality. There is Hell of a difference …i.e
in your country one is crime and other is * accepted life style*
over here one is hardly reported(but largely present in society) and other is very rare
Now back to the point
For example( its just an example to explain my point )
Suppose on a pakistani channel
“A mother of two, writes about her extra marital afairs and wants counsel on how to handle one or more relationships, as she is no more interested in her husband ??”
I am talking about ^^ this kind of discussion which will try to address the issue should not be shown on Pakistani channel in pakistan.
These should be answered through letter or email. Not because this is some out of this world problem, but simply becasue it is isolated issue. Most people are not interested in her problem.
Most of u may not have slightest of objection on this. But I am Totally against discussing issues on Pakistani channel which do not represent/address sizable portion of population.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
thank u for opening this topic…
this issue really gets to me
i dont think they need to show such programs on TV
there is a place and time for everything and a pakistani family channel is not the correct setting to be showing such programs
thank God our generation was saved from all this when we were growing up…but im worried abt whats going to happen with the next generation…
it really makes me angry when i think about this… who gave the right to these TV channels to do this to our society? i am beginning to detest Musharraf becoz of his “liberal” and “secular” information policy. 
such discussions are not decent. they spread ‘fahashi’. in Islam there is a concept of “burai ko chupana” and “sharm-o-haya” and “modesty”. there is some “lihaz” some “pardaydaari”.
no body is saying throw issues under the rug and dont solve problems, but discussing them so openly is something else.
if there is an issue that even 60% of people are facing, then fine, i don’t have a problem with mentioning it on TV. like, family planning ads, saying stuff on TV like “do bachay hi achay.” till here its OK. not more than this. for ppl who are interested in the matter this much should be enough and gets the message across, without explicit mention of things. there is no need to go into details about such issues on public television that every one of all ages is watching.
if someone had gone through abuse…and i personally know of people who have…the last thing they are going to derive solace from is some program on a TV channel…they derive soalce from friends and loved ones who care for them…how can u apply what some random person is saying on TV to your life?
if one needs advice, they are correct ways to get advice. and that should be through Islamic programs like Aalim Online where things are taken seriuosly and answers given through Islamic background. and i have seen some controversial issues being discussed there, and i am OK with that. atleast the matter is treated with seriousness and thru a no-nonsense approach. not just as a social discussion. and in that too a certain degree of “pardah” should prevail about what exactly is being discussed and how much detail is being discussed as kids are also watching those programs.
this one time i saw a program on TV, uljhan suljhan, a teenager had written a letter to the program about having developed some kind of liking for his teacher. the guy was in matric. what’s ur age in matric? not even 18! yes a lot of kids may have gone thru this, and i am not saying that he has become evil because he did this, but instead of telling the kid k what u r thinking is wrong, instead of instilling shame in him for a wrong act, they were were going on about how this is “natural” to feel this way and its “okay”… what kind of tarbeeyat are they imparting? we have to atleast tell our kids whats right and whats wrong!
do people not know that these evils exist? yes they do. the one who faces a situation knows about such things. besides certain things are imparted to a person naturally as they grow up by their surroundings and we do realise what’s right and what’s wrong in many matters. but to discuss them so openly like they are a normal affair lends a certain degree of acceptability to them. this should be avoided at all costs.
there are also different types of issues. like if a social problem is really common, like for example … abuse of children in a madrassah…then the government needs to take serious steps to stop this…what will discussing it on TV endlessly do? sure, maybe educate parents to be careful about this when they sent their kids to madrassay. but maybe they can just HINT at it, and not go into an hour long discussion with details. a hint is more than enough. samajhnay waalon k lyay kaafi hae.
kids grow up too early in the west and this spoils their thinking. in our society kids remain innocent till a longer age. and this leads to them being more emotionally healthy and focussing on better things. 15 year old girls in pakistan are generally not obsessed about boys and makeup as girls in the west are. this is a good thing.
we are a Muslim society. lets retain the “kaanon ka parda” and “aankhon ka parda”. haya (modesty) is a very important part of our faith.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
sorry for getting a bit emotional :o but i really feel STRONGLY abt this topic..
it really bugs me to the extent of anger when i see such stuff on TV :/
Re: Are they going too fast ?
Codie, there's a difference between r-rated programs and information. Since a good number of Paks population doesn't have access to education but a large number either has or can have access to TV, it's an excellent media to convey a message, any message. If you're not comfortable watching bay-watch with your family, perfect. But that is not the same as not sitting through a documentary on aids etc with them. Most of these social ills have focus on the wrong things, educated and open-minded ppl should explain or take the discussion up from where the documentary has left.
Homosexuality is pretty common in Pak dear, check your sources again. It's not registered and or talked about, but its very much there. Ten years ago, it was still pretty new thing to many but not anymore. Btw, which one of my countries are you talking about? :p
Even your example, if it happens is a valid question. What do you think counselor would tell her in Pak and in western world? Your concern seems to be that if ppl start talking about a certain issue it will over the time, become socially acceptable, correct? To this, if culture and morals of a nation are so weak, that you need moral and cultural watch-dogs everywhere, social ills will rotten that nation up from inside. Educate your ppl don't hide the truth.
Irem, society gives rights to the media to discuss social issues, not Musharaf. That's a cheap shot, you can't blame current government for everything. Zia forced head covering on TV, did that change anything? Why don't you call in or write a letter to some newspaper and see what happens? TV channel monitor their program's popularity, obviously there's need and interest for such programs else, which Pak TV channel is interested airing programs for educational purposes for free?
As for Aalim on-line, not everyone in Pakistan is Muslim and deff. not everyone can agree on which aalim is eligible to talk about certain issues from a Islamic pow. Addressing social problems via Muslim scholar will trigger many other religious issues, don't you think? But basically, who ever does it is fine, as long as it's done.
Your metric student example is kinda cute. You're around 15 years old when in metric, this kid was told that his feelings were no big deal, which means that there's no thrill in those feelings for him anymore, and he'll get over it sooner as compared to living in shame for years.
I think it's about time, media is used for education in Pakistan, instead of political BS. And third rate dramas on feudal systems and sorry lives of villagers.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
very well said irem. i completely agree.
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That’s so sad, if you ever watch any of the Punjabi movies (donno if they show that on TV), it has so much violence and killings and murder, and I am sure none of you Islami potatoes will find that objectionable. But god forbid if someone talks about homosexuality… we are ready to kill one another. Child molestation is embedded in Pakistani society, and talking about it is the first step towards recognizing that it exist. What’s so taboo about talking about Vagina or Penis or other body parts? How does not talking about that makes one a better person than not? Gimme a fking break.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
With the amount of ignorance in Pakistan in such topics like women's health, AIDS, family planning, abuse, there can't be ENOUGH programs like those on TV. They aren't there for glamor appeal or to rating boosts, they are a service, and the sooner we recognize this the better.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
Extremely well put, sabah. I specially concur with this,
[QUOTE]
As for Aalim on-line, not everyone in Pakistan is Muslim and deff. not everyone can agree on which aalim is eligible to talk about certain issues from a Islamic pow.
[/QUOTE]
Re: Are they going too fast ?
I mostly agree with irem…
Sabah ji, What is difficult for me to understand how people visiting for 2 week find out so much indepth details, which we naliaq are still unaware of, after quater of a century of existance 
When we talk about Pakistan, it is 150 million people. 10 % of which will be 15 million and 1 % is 1.5 million.
When I say Child abuse is very common in Pakistan. This is very strong statement and I do not have any proof /research in support. it is taboo. No one will talk about it. But i think i know the society very well.
And I fully support efforts for awareness about this crime and tv programs should discuss this topic :k:
What you people are not trying to understand (or don’t want to understand ) is the issues which are not common and they want to discuss it for the sake of discussion. (read my example in last post ) . I do not want that. 95 % Pakistani poppulation do not want that too.
A family tv channel in Pakistan must show what viewer want to see and what they should see and hear for their intellectual growth and Not to highlight moral decline of few indviduals.
You will not be able to understand dear. There is one thing called Hayaa which is embedded in most of the muslims. Also a requirement of faith.
Being crude and Behayaa is not the requirement of being civilized.
I can’t stand any current Punjabi Film, but I would love to watch Heer ranjha or Munawar zareef anyday anytime. there is always an alternate awailable. Its called ‘Freedom of choice’ 
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Codie yaar, I understand what Haya means, and I think that Haya can be attributed to the sorry state of affairs. So how do you suppose problems such as Child Molestation, Homosexuality and Londay Baazi be addressed in Pakistan? Do you remember how Cinemas that showed Totay will always have houseful. Do you think that it is the usual duplicity of our society that likes to live in denial, instead of seeking help? Have you heard about any household admitting that they have a drug addict in their house (until the poor fella is dead) or a girl who was raped by her uncle? Or a child who was molested by his Mullah? Haya is when these *******s are exposed. Now if you have any suggestions as to how these issues should be addressed, lets hear it.
Could you explain what Bayhayai you see in showing a show dealing with Child Molestation or Homosexuality on TV in Pakistan?
Re: Are they going too fast ?
There is no doubt that a rating system for TV/Music/Video Games should be implemented and enforced in Pakistan. This is a given, and this is not even a debate. Its overdue.
Parents should decide what their kids should be able to watch, and most likely they will go with age-appropriate content. Different parents have different thresholds, and that works fine for ratings. If Madhanee wants his 12 year old to watch R-rated programs, its Madhanee’s choice. If Irem wants her 9 year old to only watch G-rated programs, thats fine too. If Madhanee or Irem feel that their kids need to know some sensitive topic, they can either discuss with them privately or show them an appropriate show on the television, whichever way they want. This will also free up media to show and debate and opine on important issues that are relevant for our societies.
In some households I have seen, for example, any time TV is started, it will filter out anything which is above PG rating. Anytime the parents want to access anything above PG (including news) they have to enter a code. This works for them and they need it cz their kids are between ages 5 and 9. Ofcourse, it assumes that parents have some level of technical competence to program their TV/satellite boxes to enforce and make use of ratings.
Re: Are they going too fast ?
Code_Red,
The 95% analogy doesn't fly. How many people in Pakistan actually have AIDS or have been declared HIV positive?
And yet official television channels ala PTV and Channel III broadcast AID's preventive warnings all the time.
As for homosexuality, you yourself said that we do not have any sort of concrete statistical figures to go by, so the best we can do is come up with rough estimates based upon personal experiences, general cultural patterns and what little reporting is actually being carried out in the newspapers.
Going by this, I have to say that homosexuality is certainly not so uncommon as you seem to think. Most of the reports of homosexual behaviour manifest themselves in the form of rape-attack on young boys in newspapers [most of the children don't tell these sort of things to their parents and it is an exceptional guardian who dares to air this in public]. This does not mean that homosexual behaviour is absent in its other gentler form from our society. Middle-class testosterone filled teenagers take part in a lot of tomfoolery around the stage when hormones start to really kick in. And due to the innately sexually repressive nature of our society, and the general frowning on inter-gender interaction, the manly little 'by-play' sometimes leads on to other, nastier things.
On the other hand, this doesn't mean that homosexuality is prevalent, either. The social and familial taboo on it is pretty strict and is one of the things that isn't likely to loosen in the years to come. Homosexuals certainly aren't comming out in the open and proclaiming their affiliations - that would get them hanged sooner then latter.
So, the question is, since homosexuality is basically precieved as a satanic abomniation in Pakistan, should television channels come out in the open and dare to offer opinions that broach this particular topic? It is a very risky thing. We all saw what happened when Jaang group dared to present the opinion of an Isreali official in a non-villifying manner. Open frank discussion on a major television network admitting homosexuality and discussioning the problems that arise due to blind and wilful ignorance, broadcasted in Pakistan, can have far-reaching consequences for the t.v channel; ranging from the death of the those involved, arson, blasphmy hearings, ban on intra-country broadcast to public castigation as Muslim enemies.
However, I personally think that this shouldn't let the tv channels from relaying public discussion of this topic. Obviously it is there, whether it is common among five percent or fifty percent isn't the issue. The issue is that due to neglect, misunderstanding and general ignorance about this issue people can get ruined. There are signs when a male child is sexually taken advantage of. Parents usually turn a blind eye or ignore them, children being unaware of what has happened are disoriented, scared, confused; often ending up as total psychopathic wrecks.
Any issue that concerns any part of our society; minority or majority alike should be aired publically. If you don't want to confront it, you can refrain from watching the respective channel or reading the paper. This is also called freedom of choice.
And putting a rating should not a problem. Honestly, tell me, how many nine year olds are going to stay up till late night and log on to a talk show, actually hear the participants talking and understand half of it?
Scant few among a million, and I am being generous here.