Here is a challenge for Reza- will you claim there are no castelike divisions and exploitation within Pakistan or islam or for that matter, any religion?
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
Moved it here, seeing as it seemed more suitable for a religion topic than WA.
My take on it would be that as far as the usually accepted definition of caste would go, pasted below, no, because no division within Islam is based on lineage or breed.
[quote]
The word Caste is derived from the Portuguese word casta, meaning lineage, breed or race. The term "caste", when used in human culture, is usually in conjunction with the social division in Hindu society, particularly in India.
[/quote]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
[quote=“ravage”]
Moved it here, seeing as it seemed more suitable for a religion topic than WA.
My take on it would be that as far as the usually accepted definition of caste would go, pasted below, no, because no division within Islam is based on lineage or breed.
slavery is allowed when you capture a land which cant practised now
: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
There are numerous sects in Islam, but not much of a caste system. At least not that I know of.
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
In Indian subcontinent many low casts accepted Islam…Can you give us some figures if Sayeeds or Shekhs have married to dalit or low cast converts in Pakistan, (or in India, Bangladesh)???
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
anjjan, I have no figures on me. If you're talking purely Islam, there is no caste system whatsoever. All Muslims are equals and it's only piety that raises our status in front of Allah (SWT).
As for low cast converts and people not marrying them, I cannot comment. I'm sure it must be happening. There are many who do not even marry into other cultures because they may look down upon it or prefer to marry within their own culture. However, this does not mean any of it is related to Islam or something that is appreciated.
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
[quote=“rvikz”]
Slavery in islam during the prophethood was striclty limited to POWs from wars with non-believers, and was not a systematic enslavement of a free people for having a different racial make-up (like slavery in Amierca).
So, slavery cannot be used as an example to say “caste systems” exist in islam. Please refer to the qoute by ravage for a description of “caste.”
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
The figure may be close to zero. What is your point?
Muslims are at fault here, not Islam.
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
I did not ask what Islam says…I ask what is happening in practical. I don’t ask you to guess…tell me if Sayeed or Sheikhs do not look into the origin of the mate.
Muslims of Pakistan have taken such a long period of 54 years before they could remove the label of Muhajirs from forehead of refugees…I am sure that Sayeeds and Sheikhs are conscious of their superiority.
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
^ muhajar is not a caste.
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
:)
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
i doubt pakistanis have dalit blood as much as indian population . haris of pakistan still
isolated community caught up in feudal system of sindh.
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
so how is related to “Islam”?
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
Syed is not really a caste in traditional sense. Sure, a lot of them don't like to marry non-Syeds, but it's not like a Syed is going to say "I don't work with them low class people or eat with them"
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
you are only pseudomuslims
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
very pseduo-intelligent comment, well what else should I expect from you 
Re: Are there no “castelike” divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:“High caste” Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
It is Sayyid not Sayeed, Sa’eed means happy whilst Sayyid means Master, two completely different terms Hindi boy…
This concept of Sayyid (‘Muslim’ Brahminism) isn’t from Islam and I’ve not seen it amongst non-SouthAsian Muslims, even SouthAsian Muslims are waking up now and realising the caste system is just Hindu bull crap… Also Sheikh are more often than not Hindus who converted, this title was given to them as a sign of honor and respect for accepting Islam by those who converted them, very rarely does it denote somebody of Arab desvent.
Anyway we’re Muslim now and Muslims are not tied to what their ancestors were a thousand years ago.
As for your question, plenty of Sayyid’s I know are married to people who would formally have been considered “low caste” by Hinduism, my neighbour whose family are Barbers (Nai) by profession in Pakistan is married to a Sayyidah, there are plenty of Pakistanis who are married to people who would formally be known as low castes before embracing Islam.. In my own family there’s intermarriages in all types of Pakistani ethnicities and castes…
The reason foreign Muslims at first didn’t prefer to marry the locals was not because we have a concept of caste but rather because the foreigners were more conservative than the locals, at least that’s from my own family but nowadays things are not like that and intermarriages are very common. It had nothing to do with inferiority or superiority…
In my extended family there are plenty of inter-tribal/caste and inter-ethnic (Punjabi/Pashtun/Sindhi/Mohajir) marriages and these things have never been of any concern to us… All I want my future children to know is that they are Muslim first and foremost with Koranic-Arabic as their spiritual language, Pakistani second with Urdu as their national language, all other identities are irrelevant and unnecessary headache.
I’ve not the faintest clue what caste all my friends are… Caste is a Hindi thing anyway and is irrelevant in our Pakistani culture, peoples castes are usually not apparent from their names anyway because in Pakistani culture the custom is to have the fathers first name (usually Arabic) as his son or daughters surname…
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
I like to clarify to the above post that syeds are muslim brahamins that is certainly not the case because the brahamins even didnot interact with the low caste shuders but this is not the case with syeds they live a normal life just like other muslims.syeds are the direct descendants of prophet muhammed(peace be upon him).Most of the sufi saints who spread islam in the sub continent were syeds too.
On the question of syeds not marrying outside their caste should not be taken in the wrong context it is mainly due to similarities that are between syeds and not caste or anything like that obviously.for example in india a person let say for tamil nadu will marry a tamil or from the south it will be very rare for a tamil to marry someone from the north let say from jallandar in punjab it is simple same life stlye language and culture.But there is no compulsion in islam a syed can marry a sheikh mughal pathan a newlyconvert someone from africa malaysia etc etc.when syeds came to the Indian subcontinent they used to marry from their caste just because they shared the same culture.Since there main aim of coming to india was to spread Islam so they moved from one place to other mixed with the locals.Among the local Indian population those who converted to islam did marry people from the syed community.Nowadays a punjabi syed would feel comfortable marrying a punjabi arain or rajput and not to a sindhi syed.I am a jeelani/geelani syed and you will find the same surname in Iran Iraq India pakistan etc etc.In my family many have married outside the syed community as well.
We follow the teachings of prophet muhammmed who in his last sermon said that
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
foreign origin (ashraf) muslims (turkey iran arab) dont have anything to dowith native muslims(ajlaf)
Re: Are there no "castelike" divisions in Islam? [SPLIT FROM:"High caste" Hindu students refuse food prepared by Dalits]
rvikz give it a break...i dont know how much time you spent researching, in order to come up with that one line.