Are there any sects in Islam that.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
** Khoon, Oh so there are now different types of shias? :rolleyes**
[/quote]

Although the ** Shias ** are such a tiny minority, they are ** divided into OVER 70 SECTS. ** (like the Ithna 'Ashari, Ismailies, 'Alawites, Yemeni Zaidis etc )

Subhan Allah !!!

Let there be no compulsion in Religion
For ** Truth Standsout * DISTINCT * from Error ** (Holy Qur'an 2: 256 )

** ISLAM Standsout * DISTINCT * from SHIISM **

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur'an 2:186)

[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 22, 2002).]

42

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:
** Since you mentioned the shia's najul balagha to prove your point, may be you should look at the following sermons of Ali (ra) as well:

**
[/quote]

** Gandalf ** , Are you still claiming to be a "Hanafi" Sunni Muslim ???? (as if you want to say "Hanafi" is a distinct sub-sect within Mainstream Islam) .

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur'an 2:186)

43

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
*Thanks appkiamaanat, you have just sentanced me to hell coz there isnt a label of sunni written all over my face! *
[/quote]

In case you didn't realize, you are addressing a ** Muslimah **

** Address her with * RESPECT. * ** You are not in your Imambara.

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur'an 2:186)

44

Infallibility of the prophet (pbuh) is a long issue which is best discussed on another thread.

Suffice it is to say that the holy prophet (pbuh) was a human but infallible as he was constantly under divine protection protection of Allah (swt).

Being infallible does not make one DIVINE. As such, to prove that the holy prophet (pbuh) was a human is inconsequential to this sort of argument. Nobody is denying this fact.

Verse 33:33 has guaranteed his purification from all sins.

If the prophet (pbuh) was fallible, would it make sense for Allah (swt) to give the following command:

[Shakir 59:7] And whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):

Those that say that this refers to religious orders and not worldly actions (where the prophet (pbuh) could have made mistakes) have not understood the qur'an nor the severity of their charge against the holy prophet (pbuh).

w'salam

45

Ibrahim says : salaams to all

Shah Jahan dear, EXACTLY! That is why you are shia and will always oppose Islam based on your preconceived notions. NO Hadiths, NO Qur’anic ayahs will be accepted by you if it did not conform to your notions and you can care less about them when it does not favor you.

Ibrahim says: Exactly and when the Qur’an is quoted you will turn around and say my imam says it means this and that, and you will reject that too. And your so called infallible imams will not accept it because they believed the shia Qur’an which is three times more than the actual Qur’an revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) is hidden in the cave with imam mahdi ( 12 Shia imam for the 12 er’s sect in shi’ism) , which was indeed true, unfortunately they already found that Qur’an and it is now kept by the Jews better known as the dead seas scrolls.

Ibrahim says: But Brother Sholey did quote the Qur’an and you still rejected it, are going to tell me If I quote another ayah you will accept it?

I will indeed quote for you an ayah from the Qur’an, the moment you tell me on what basis you will accept it and on what basis you will reject it?

** I await your response! **

Ibrahim says; That is due to your lack of reasoning powers and not due to any contradiction on my part. You see, no man sent to this planet to be tested is infallible, ever, if any were infallible they won’t be on this planet, they will be in heaven period! And did not be sent here to be tested by Allah (swt) , it is as simple as that.

Every human being will be tested because they are fallible, IF the prophet (pbuh) was tested to his last breath why are you adamant about matters that you have not understood.?

Was salaam
Ibrahim

** he who wishes to secure the good for others , has already secured his own **

46

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:Infallibility of the prophet (pbuh) is a long issue which is best discussed on another thread.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says Gandalaf dear, why did you reject the hadiths?

47

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
We curse and slander those who deserve to be cursed and slandered for they did terrible things to the people we hold above them(Like what Yazeed did to imam Hussain and what ** Muaviwa **
[/quote]

Don't you dare curse Hazrat Mu'awiyah (R) .

[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 22, 2002).]

48

[quote]
Originally posted by appkiamaanat:
**Jazak'Allah Khairun brother Khoon...so can you explain the Ikhwani Muslimeen movement in detail plzz??

**
[/quote]

Well, from what I know and can remember, Hasan al-Banna (an egyptian) is regarded as the founder of the Ikhwaan al-Muslimoon . It was founded about 70 or 60 years ago.

Many groups have been influenced by Ikhwaan al-Muslimoon, including the Jamaat-e-Islami.

49

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** Ibrahim says Gandalaf dear, why did you reject the hadiths? **
[/quote]

I reject the hadith that says that the holy prophet (pbuh) cursed and lost temper based on the following quranic ayat that describes the prophet (pbuh) of Allah (swt):

[Shakir 68:4] And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality

The holy prophet (pbuh) stands on a most exalted standard of character and his life is an incomparable living illustration and explanation of the Quran.

It is more appropriate if said that the Quran is a mirror of his most honoured being. His life pattern is now the standard for his followers.

w'salam

50

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** Ibrahim says: salaams to all

Read! And redirect yourself before the angel of death comes for you.

Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6297 Narrated by Anas ibn Malik

There was an orphan girl living with Umm Sulaym (who was the mother of Anas). Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) saw that orphan girl and said: O, it is you; you have grown young. May you not advance in years! The slave-girl returned to Umm Sulaym, weeping. Umm Sulaym said: O daughter, what is the matter with you? ** She said: Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) has invoked a curse upon me ** that I should not grow in age and thus I shall never grow in age, or she said, in my (length) of life. Umm Sulaym went out, having hurriedly wrapped her head in a shawl, to meet Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him). He said to her: Umm Sulaym, what is the matter with you? She said: Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) , you invoked a curse upon my orphan girl. He said: Umm Sulaym, what is that? She said: She (the orphan girl) states you have cursed her, saying that she might not grow in age or grow in (length of) life. ** Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) smiled and then said: ** Umm Sulaym, don't you know that I have made this stipulation with my Lord. And the stipulation with my Lord is that I said to Him: ** I am a human being and I am pleased just as a human being is pleased and I lose temper just as a human being loses my temper.** So for any person from amongst my Ummah, whom I curse ** and he in no way deserves it,** let that, O Lord, be made a source of purification, purity and nearness to (Allah) on the Day of Resurrection.

**
[/quote]

Ibrahim;

How swift you are to prove the weaknesses of the holy prophet (pbuh). You spend a great deal of effort hiding the flaws of certain wives and companions of the holy prophet (pbuh), but for the prophet (pbuh) himself, you are ever so vigilent to point out his flaws - though false as they may be.

The holy prophet (pbuh), the most sublime creation of Allah (swt), sent as a mercy to mankind, says that he can curse at others though they may not deserve it. And you would be the type of individual to believe such things.

Praise be to Allah (swt), who has sent down the qura'n with clear ayats to reject such false documented hadiths, and has protected the honor of our holy prophet (pbuh).

51

well i am not that literate in islamic literature but after reading this link and the discussion over the infallibility of the Prophet(p.b.u.h) i read the ahadith and well there were lots of times when Prophet did get angry and because of the right reasons too. but he never raised his voice and always tried to hide it.
well for example

Narrated Ibn Mas'ud

"Once Allah's Apostle divided and distributed (the war booty). An Ansarman said, "By Allah ! Muhammad, by this distribution, did not intend to please Allah." So I came to Allah's Apostle and informed him about it whereupon his face became changed with anger and he said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on Moses for he was hurt with more than this, yet he remained patient."

so this shows he did get angry...but tries to hold it.

Allah Knows best

52

Enchanted;

The sahabahs were accused of worst things than this and they did not get mad. In this regards, you can refer to Hazrat Ali's (ra) dealings with Muwayiah, Aisha (ra), and others.

As such if Hazrat Ali (ra) could control his temper and deal justly with the unjust, how much more patient and controlled must our holy prophet (pbuh) have been.

To say that he got angry does not conform to quranic ayats talking about the lofty position of our holy prophet's (pbuh) character.

And for him (pbuh) to curse someone unjustly and without cause, that is a deviant thought spread by some out of malice.

Remember that the holy prophet (pbuh) says nothing less than it is a revelation to him from Allah (swt):

Nor does he (Muhammad) speak out of his desire. It is nothing but revelation that is revealed. (Quran 53:3-4).

53

The Holy Quran states that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is HUMAN being like us Human beings. The likeness between us and him is in the sense that both of us are human and both are accountable for our deeds.

However there is no similarity between us and him in terms of virtue, knowledge, closeness to Allah. Allah gave him abilities and authorities which were not given to us ordinary beings.

In the following traditions in Sahih al-Bukhari, the Prophet clearly stated that he is not like any of us, meaning that although he is human, we can not compare our weak and sinful soul with his:

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 182:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "Do not practice al-Wisal (fasting continuously without breaking one's fast in the evening or eating before the following dawn)." The people said to the Prophet, "But you practice al-Wisal?" The Prophet replied, "I am not like any of you, for I am given food and drink (by Allah) during the night." (Qala: Lastu Ka ahadin minkum).

And

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 186:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle forbade Al-Wisal in fasting. So, one of the Muslims said to him, "But you practice Al-Wisal. O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet replied, "Who amongst you is similar to me? I am given food and drink during my sleep by my Lord." So, when the people refused to stop Al-Wisal (fasting continuously), the Prophet fasted day and night continuously along with them for a day and then another day and then they saw the crescent moon (of the month of Shawwal). The Prophet said to them (angrily), "If It (the crescent) had not appeared, I would have made you fast for a longer period." That was as a punishment for them when they refused to stop (practising Al-Wisal).

w'salam

[This message has been edited by Gandalf (edited May 23, 2002).]

54

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:
How swift you are to prove the weaknesses of the holy prophet (pbuh).
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: salaams to all

Gandalf dear you are one hell of sly character, I quote a hadith where the Prophet claim** he is only human and liable to human errors ** and you try to twist it to mean I am trying to point to his weakness??? What weakness will that be, that you noticed from that hadith?

[quote]
You spend a great deal of effort hiding the flaws of certain wives and companions of the holy prophet (pbuh), but for the prophet (pbuh) himself, ** you are ever so vigilent to point out his flaws** - though false as they may be.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Pathetic, just pathetic, need not say more because all this while you have been slandering the People whom the Prophet (pbuh) loved dearly and here because your infallibility theories crashed you try to accuse me of slander or attacking the Prophet (pbuh) ?

[quote]
The holy prophet (pbuh), the most sublime creation of Allah (swt), sent as a mercy to mankind, says that he can curse at others though they may not deserve it. And you would be the type of individual to believe such things.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: If you are so silly what can I do? And find out what other Prophets had done in their lives . Your problem is you have this imaginary illusion that is based on shi’ism which makes you think that Prophets are angels, no they are human beings . they themselves have claimed that they can make errors when tricked by sly character like you.

Read!

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 3.845 Narrated by Um Salama

Once Allah's Apostle said, "You people present your cases to me and some of you may be more eloquent and persuasive in presenting their argument. So, if I give some one's right to another (wrongly) because of the latter's (tricky) presentation of the case, I am really giving him a piece of fire; so he should not take it."

[quote]
Praise be to Allah (swt), who has sent down the qura'n with clear ayats to reject such false documented hadiths, and has protected the honor of our holy prophet (pbuh).
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: hello, read what that hadith says and THINK! Yes THINK, you seem to be unable to that, when you read the Qur’an or hadith that does not tie in with your preconceived notions based on shi’ism.

Read!

12: 109 Nor did We send before thee (as Apostles) any ** but men whom We did inspire (men) living in human habitations.** Do they not travel through the earth and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the Hereafter is best for those who do right. ** Will ye not then understand?**

17: 95 Say "If there were settled on earth angels walking about in peace and quiet ** We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle."**

41: 6 Say thou: ** "I am but a man like you: ** it is revealed to me by inspiration that your Allah is One Allah: so stand true to Him and ask for His forgiveness." And woe to those who join gods with Allah

Ibrahim says: gandalf dear why are you trying to change the subject, what happened to your infallible imams who sanctioned muta ( prostitution) which was forbidden by the Prophet (pbuh) and Ali (ra), were they normal human beings or where they infallible ?

Sunan of Abu-DawoodHadith 4987 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As

The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: ** Allah , the Exalted, hates the eloquent one among men who moves his tongue round (among his teeth), as cattle do.**

Was salaam

Ibrahim

** the tricks of the sly tie them into knots **

55

Infallibilty belongs to Allah and Allah alone!

All humans are capable of making mistakes.

The Prophets carry a far higher status than any Imaam, but were still capable of making mistakes:

028.015 And he entered the city at a time when its people were not watching: and he found there two men fighting,- one of his own religion, and the other, of his foes. Now the man of his own religion appealed to him against his foe, and Moses struck him with his fist and made an end of him. He said: "This is a work of Evil (Satan): for he is an enemy that manifestly misleads!"

028.016 He prayed: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul! Do Thou then forgive me!" So (Allah) forgave him: for He is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

020.120 But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"

020.121 In the result, they both ate of the tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden: thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.

Being capable of making a mistake and being protected by Allah, in order to prevent the mistakes are two separate issues.

Please let Allah be Allah, and let Humans be Humans!

56

Did Prophet Adam AH not eat of what was forbidden in Heaven? or was Adam AH not a prophet?

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

57

This is feaking me out! You guys are calling the prophet fallable! Thats blasphemy!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

Quran itself testuifies to the prophets Purity of soul and once one’s soul is pure, he/she is infallable for he/shje has no evil traits…

33.33) And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying

The meaning of Purification:

pu·ri·fy (pyʊr’ə-fî’)

v., -fied, -fy·ing, -fies.

v.tr.
To rid of impurities; cleanse.
To rid of foreign or objectionable elements.
To free from sin, guilt, or other defilement.
v.intr.
To become clean or pure.

Allah has sent the people of the house as pure beings and he wishes them to be so. And what allah wishes, happens! Simple!

I am about to open a thread on fallability of the prophets and hope to see you all there!

58

[quote]
Shah Jahan:
33.33) And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying**
[/quote]

If they were already "purified", why would Allah SWT desire to "purify"?

If following Allah SWT's command "purified" the Household to the extent that they can't commit sin, then consider this ayat

[5.6] O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

So following this command will "purify" everyone too?

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited May 24, 2002).]