Andhra your information is incorrect, why not try visiting some Ahlus sunnah wal jamaa' sites.
May Allah(swt) guide you. Ameen.
'Rabbee zidnee`ilmaa'
My Lord! Increase me in knowledge.[20:114]
The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
"Whoever sets out on a path to seek knowledge, Allaah will make easy his path to Paradise."
[Saheeh Muslim]
Andhra your information is incorrect, why not try visiting some Ahlus sunnah wal jamaa' sites.
May Allah(swt) guide you. Ameen.
<<<<
How is it incorrect? And can you give any web sites?
To me, this site looks authentic enough!!!
It is NOT an Anti-Islamic Site is it?
still trying to spread hatred among muslims andhra????
why do non-muslims always feel obliged to do such things????
"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)
[quote]
Originally posted by armughal:
**still trying to spread hatred among muslims andhra????
why do non-muslims always feel obliged to do such things????
**
[/quote]
because wen they prick us they know we will respond instead of ignoring them
because wen they prick us they know we will respond instead of ignoring them<<
A little correction.
You don’t just respond. You “Oblige” !!!
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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
And it is NOT Non-Muslims.
Look at the Shia-Sunni debates here!!!
Thanks appkiamaanat, you have just sentanced me to hell coz there isnt a label of sunni written all over my face! Thanks alot. Now I shall go and currupt the world and call it unfair!
Oh yeah, I forgot to add something in my ‘on my way to hell’ post:
To hell with all of ya as well
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by armughal:
**still trying to spread hatred among muslims andhra???
why do non-muslims always feel obliged to do such things???
Nu’man bin Bashir reported that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: All the believers are like one man, if his eye becomes sour the whole body feels the pain and if he has a headache, his whole body feels the pain.
Andhra is jealous of our unity , thats why he is trying to divide us. he himslef said in one of his posts :
Speaking from personal experience, I would say there is just one thing Wrong with Muslims.
They put their identity as Muslims ‘Above’ other identities, as Indians, Americans whatever.
There are seceral problems with this.<<<<
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum1/HTML/006933-2.html
“Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
[This message has been edited by secret_obsession (edited May 19, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**Like Persian-Arab lead to Shia-Sunni.
[This message has been edited by Andhra (edited May 15, 2002).]**
[/quote]
bull crap, shiaism originated in Iraq not Iran, secondly iran was majority sunni until 16 centuary, and was forciblly converted to shia...shia are also found in lebanon, iraq, azerbaijan, yemen and other countries.
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**
shia are also found yemen .**
[/quote]
Yes, but the Yemeni Zaidi Shias are ** NOT Rafidi (Unlike the Paki-Iranian Shias). **
Although the Yemeni Zaidi Shias are deviants, but they are generally considered to be within the fold of Islam.
Also, they do ** NOT ** practise taqiyah, or cursing the Sahaabah, or the Ummahaat al-Mu'mineen. And I heard from my Yemeni friend they also pray together with the Sunnis.
There are other differences too, but ** lets not compare the Yemeni Zaidi Shias with the other Shias. They are WORLDS APART. **
[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 21, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**
secondly iran was majority sunni until 16 centuary, and was forciblly converted to shia...shia are also found in lebanon, iraq, azerbaijan, yemen and other countries.**
[/quote]
Countries with ** Major Shia populations ** :
** Iran: 45 Million ** (It's NOT 60 Million as claimed by the Iranian government and it can be easily disproven - Hint: compare the populations of the Kurds, Turkoman, Baluchs and some Arabs (who are predominantly Sunnis), as ** OFFICIALLY ** given by the Iranian government, and you'd see the ** apparent fallacy, contradiction and lies ** in the Iranian government's reports).
** Pakistan: 28 Million
India : ~ 15 Million
Iraq: ~ 11 Million
Azerbaijan : ~ 4 Million ** (Again it's not 7-8 Million as the "Official" sources would love us to believe)
** Lebanon: ~ 1.3 Million
Saudi Arabia: ~ 800, 000 **
I've not included the Yemeni Zaidi Shias in this. Also, I do not have statistics for the Shias in Syria etc.
Add that up, and compare it with the roughly ** 2 BILLION ** people who claim to be Muslims, and you'll notice that these Shiites are ** HARDLY 6% ** of all those who claim to be ** Muslims. **
[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 21, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by appkiamaanat:
**Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) said in one of the sermons Quoted in Nahjul Balagha:
"With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from Rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from Rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allaah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity".
Nahjul Balagha SERMON 126 About the Kharijites
In that time , people were three groups :
Kharijites who said that Imaam Ali was a disbeliever and they send Ibn Muljim to kill him and he did that.
Shi'ia's who said that he was infallible Imaam and Allaah had chosen him for leading Muslims . ect.
Sunnis ( Majority of Muslims ) who said that he was a great companion of the prophet and he was a great leader to Muslims but Muslims had chosen him to be their leader not Allaah.
**
[/quote]
Sister;
Just to correct you, the sermon you are mentioning is sermon 127, not 126.
In this sermon, Ali (ra) is talking about those people, like the Ghulat, who took Ali (ra) as God - i.e prescribed divinity to him.
He is not talking about being an imam because this is accepted by all schools of thought - that he was a great imam. As to him being infallible, that is confirmed by ayat 33:33.
Since you mentioned the shia's najul balagha to prove your point, may be you should look at the following sermons of Ali (ra) as well:
Warning to neglectful people, and about the vastness of his own knowledge
SERMON 175
O' people who are (negligent of Allah but) not neglected (by Allah), and those who miss (doing good acts) but are to be caught. How is it that I see you becoming removed from Allah and becoming interested in others? You are like the camel whom the grazer drives to a disease-stricken pasture and a disastrous watering place. They are like beasts who are fed in order to be slaughtered, but they do not know what is intended for them. When they are treated well they think that day to be their whole life, and eating their full to be their aim.
By Allah, if I wish, I can tell every one of you from where he has come, where he has to go and all his affairs, but I fear lest you abandon the Messenger of Allah - peace and blessing of Allah be upon him and his progeny - in my favour. I shall certainly convey these things to the selected ones who will remain safe from that fear. By Allah, Who deputed the Prophet with Right and distinguished him over creation. I do not speak save the truth. He (the Prophet) informed me of all this and also about the death of every one who dies, the salvation of every one who is granted salvation, and the consequences of this matter (the caliphate). He left nothing (that could) pass into my head without putting it in my ear and telling me about it.
O' people ! By Allah, I do not impel you to any obedience unless I practise it before you and do not restrain you from any disobedience unless I desist from it before you.
Now tell me if you are giving Ali (ra) his due importance.
Another sermon from Najul Balagah is as follows:
About the Ahlu'l-bayt (of the Holy Prophet) and their opposers
He who has an intelligent mind looks to his goal. He knows his low road as well as his high road. The caller has called. The shepherd has tended (his flocks). So respond to the caller and follow the shepherd.
They (the opposers) have entered the oceans of disturbance and have taken to innovations instead of the Sunnah (the Prophet's holy deeds, utterances and his unspoken approvals), while the believers have sunk down, and the misguided and the liars are speaking. **We are the near ones, companions, treasure holders and doors (to the Sunnah). Houses are not entered save through their doors. Whoever
enters them from other than the door is called a thief.
A part of the same sermon
The delicacies of the Qur'an are about them (Ahlu'l-bayt, the descendants of the Prophet) and they are the treasurers of Allah. When they speak they speak the truth, but when they keep quiet no one can speak unless they speak.** The forerunner should report correctly to his people, should retain his wits and should be one of the children (a man) of the next world, because he has come from there and would return to it.
FYI
[quote]
Gandalf wrote:
As to him (Ali [ra]) being infallible, that is confirmed by ayat 33:33.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: salaams to all
Gandalf dear, when the Prophet (pbuh) had declared he the prophet himself is not infallible, why would his blood relations be infallible? Think, it seems hard for you do, due to preconceived notions and blind faith in shi’ism.
when the Prophet (pbuh) conveyed ** he is only human being,** only the shia will declare that their imams are infallible
Read! And redirect yourself before the angel of death comes for you.
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6297 Narrated by Anas ibn Malik
There was an orphan girl living with Umm Sulaym (who was the mother of Anas). Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) saw that orphan girl and said: O, it is you; you have grown young. May you not advance in years! The slave-girl returned to Umm Sulaym, weeping. Umm Sulaym said: O daughter, what is the matter with you? ** She said: Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) has invoked a curse upon me ** that I should not grow in age and thus I shall never grow in age, or she said, in my (length) of life. Umm Sulaym went out, having hurriedly wrapped her head in a shawl, to meet Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him). He said to her: Umm Sulaym, what is the matter with you? She said: Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) , you invoked a curse upon my orphan girl. He said: Umm Sulaym, what is that? She said: She (the orphan girl) states you have cursed her, saying that she might not grow in age or grow in (length of) life. ** Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) smiled and then said: ** Umm Sulaym, don't you know that I have made this stipulation with my Lord. And the stipulation with my Lord is that I said to Him: ** I am a human being and I am pleased just as a human being is pleased and I lose temper just as a human being loses my temper.** So for any person from amongst my Ummah, whom I curse ** and he in no way deserves it,** let that, O Lord, be made a source of purification, purity and nearness to (Allah) on the Day of Resurrection.
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6167 Narrated by Abu Hurayrah
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: ** Do not revile my Companions, do not revile my Companions. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if one amongst you would have spent as much gold as Uhud it would not amount to as much as one mudd on behalf of one of them or half of it.**
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5879 Narrated by Aisha
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) in his (last) illness asked me to call AbuBakr, her father, and her brother too, so that he might write a document for he feared that someone else might be desirous (of succeeding him) and that some claimant may say:** I have better claim to it, whereas Allah and the Faithful do not substantiate the claim of anyone but that of AbuBakr.**
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5877 Narrated by Aisha
Ibn AbuMulaykah reported: I heard Aisha as saying that she was asked as to whom Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) would have nominated ** his successor** if he had to nominate one at all. ** She said: AbuBakr. It was said to her: Then whom after AbuBakr? She said: Umar. It was said to her. Then whom after Umar? She said: AbuUbaydah ibn Jarrah,** and then she kept quiet at this.
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6306 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Mas'ud
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:** Should I inform you that slandering, that is in fact a tale-carrying which creates dissension amongst people,** (and) he (further) said: The person tells the truth until he is recorded as truthful, and he tells a lie until he is recorded as a liar.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 6221 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Mas'ud
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, ** "When I am gone copy those two of my companions, AbuBakr and Umar, follow the guidance of Ammar, and hold fast to the injunction of Ibn Umm Abd." ** Hudhayfah's version says "Believe what Ibn Mas'ud tells you" instead of "Hold fast to the injunction of Ibn Umm Abd."
Tirmidhi transmitted it.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 6111 Narrated by Anas ibn Malik
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, ** "The most compassionate member of my people towards my people is AbuBakr, the most rigorous regarding Allah's affair is Umar, the most genuinely modest is Uthman, the one who knows most about obligatory duties is Zayd ibn Thabit, the one who knows best how to recite the Qur'an is Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and the one who has most knowledge about what is lawful and what is prohibited is Mu'adh ibn Jabal.** Every people has a trustworthy guardian, and the trustworthy guardian of this people is AbuUbayd ibn al-Jarrah.
Ahmad and Tirmidhi transmitted it, Tirmidhi saying this is a hasan sahih tradition. It is also transmitted in mursal form, on the authority of Ma'mar who cited Qatadah as his authority, and it contains the phrase "The most learned in legal matters is Ali."
Ibrahim says: Just in case there is still some doubt as to the infallibility of Ali (ra)
Read and digest this:
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 5.76 Narrated by Al Miswar bin Makhrama
** 'Ali demanded the hand of the daughter of Abu Jahl. Fatima heard of this and went to Allah's Apostle saying, "Your people think that you do not become angry for the sake of your daughters as 'Ali is now going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl."** On that Allah's Apostle got up and after his recitation of Tashah-hud, I heard him saying, "Then after! I married one of my daughters to Abu Al-'As bin Al-Rabi' (the husband of Zainab, the daughter of the Prophet ) before Islam and he proved truthful in whatever he said to me. ** No doubt, Fatima is a part of me, I hate to see her being troubled. By Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of Allah's enemy cannot be the wives of one man." So 'Ali gave up that engagement.**
'Al-Miswar further said: -I heard the Prophet talking and he mentioned a son-in-law of his belonging to the tribe of Bani 'Abd-Shams. He highly praised him concerning that relationship and said (whenever) he spoke to me, he spoke the truth, and whenever he promised me, he fulfilled his promise."
Ibrahim says: very sorry Gandalf your infallible theories just went flop!
Allah (swt) knows best
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** Three big consumers of energy; guilt, fear and unfulfilled expectations. **
Once again, I agree with Ibraheem on the issue of infallibility.
Not because me and Ibraheem have some sort of shares in a multi national corporation, but the following ayat:
016.061
YUSUFALI: If Allah were to punish men for their wrong-doing, He would not leave, on the (earth), a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: When their Term expires, they would not be able to delay (the punishment) for a single hour, just as they would not be able to anticipate it (for a single hour).
PICKTHAL: If Allah were to take mankind to task for their wrong-doing, he would not leave hereon a living creature, but He reprieveth them to an appointed term, and when their term cometh they cannot put (it) off an hour nor (yet) advance (it).
SHAKIR: And if Allah had destroyed men for their iniquity, He would not leave on the earth a single creature, but He respites them till an appointed time; so when their doom will come they shall not be able to delay (it) an hour nor can they bring (it) on (before its time).
Self explanatory!!
Ibrahim, I couldnt care less if you gave us a 100 million sunni Hadiths. I need Quran to belive you. Plus, Shias belive the prophet was a man but not the way a ‘normal’ man was. For he is/was and will forever be infallable and there is no proof of his making a mistake…(Again I dont want a hadith. I want quran)
Plus If Allah made the Ahlul bayt free from all unpurities that means they are infallible for only unpre people can be fallable!
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you contradict youself my friend!
Khoon, Oh so there are now different types of shias?
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We curse and slander those who deserve to be cursed and slandered for they did terrible things to the people we hold above them(Like what Yazeed did to imam Hussain and what Muaviwa did to Imam Hassan). I personally hold Hazrat Ali above Abu bakr and if the latter did any thing to hurt the former, I would be highly displeased with him.
Secondly, only some shias say things which one could difine as ‘swearing’ for we dont swear and those who do are few in number and large in voice. It’s just like saying that the destruction of the twin towers is supported by All muslims! You cant genralise a whole people by the uneeded actions of a few.
And since when did you become the offical statistic provider for the muslim world and since when did muslims number 2 billion? It’s totally absured and muslims number over 1 billion and if we compare now, we find shias total 12% of the muslim population(2% more than what most people say)
Sholay, and since when was the prophet of Islam punishable for his misdeeds when he didnt even commit any? It cleary says iof they were to be punished for their MISDEEDS. Read misdeed and think about the great man who brought Islam. I frankly wouldnt follow islam if the leader was a loose character. Allah sent the prophet to guide the people of earth. If there was no one there cause of their misdeeeds why would allah want to send anyone to guide nothing?
Yes, Look at the Shia-Sunni debates here! Your mission’s accomplished Andhara!
well actually i don't know why any sect in islam calls the other sect non-muslim and stuff because i believe that as Allah has said in quran
"2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. "
so i don't think this statement leaves out any space for confusion...because if Allah can forgive Christians and Sabians who r on the right path and believe in Him and do good deeds... then why can't he forgive muslims who might disagree on some minor issue but are righteous and do what Allah has asked them to do...and surely Allah knows what is in the hearts of people
2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."
Thanks for telling us ** how much you hate Islam and Muslims. **
You yourself had asked me not to follow the Western media (regarding Iran), (presumably because they are biased). But, the ** Western Statistics THEMSELVES say Muslims are about 1.3 BILLION. ** * (That is ** INSPITE ** of their being ** PREJUDICED ** and biased) *
Now, you want us to believe that the ** Western statistics have INFLATED the population of the Muslims ??? **
The fact that ** you want to decrease the population of the Muslims by a HALF ** speaks volumes about your hatred for Islam and Muslims. ** Even ** the ** Hindus and Jews ** like to misrepresent the Muslim population as much as they can. ** Like the Kafirs, ** even the ** Shia ** can’t digest the fact that those who call themselves Muslims are about 2 Billion in number (because of their hatred for Islam).
And, if the Shias were hardly 6% , why would it matter to you ? ** DON’T YOU CONSIDER THE NON-SHIAS TO BE MUSLIMS ??? ** I mean, take the example of the different schools of thought within Mainstream (i.e. Sunni) Islam . ** If the Hanafis were only 6% of the total Muslims, and the rest were Shafi’s or Malikis, it WOULDN’T HAVE MATTERED TO THE HANAFIS - * they would have felt the joy and brotherhood of Islam REGARDLESS * ** - because they do not consider themselves to be any different in religion, nor do they hate them.
Thanks for showing the world ** how much you hate Islam and Mainstream Muslims. **
[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 22, 2002).]