Are taleban today's kharijiites?

[Sa1eem]

Re: Steeped in ancient mysticism, passion of Pakistani Sufis infuriates Taliban

@diwana

Absolutely no problem.

It is your right to consider anyone or any group kafir/murtid/mushrik.

No, it is not my right … it is right of Allah and since I would not like to burn in the lowest part of hell forever with Takfeeries/kharjees, I would not do that.

On the other hand you should accept (if not agree to) others calling you (not personally) also kafir/murtid/mushrik if they find a reason.

Anyone who would do takfeer on Muslim (any person who declare that he/she is Muslim) then to call that person Kafir or Kharjee is not takfeer (just like it is not takfir to call a person kafir who declares that he/she is not Muslim), because by assuming right of Allah that person becomes kafir (just like a declared kafir).

It is when you add the justification for their death when problem may arise, since in turn you (again not personally) may be considered someone who deserves to die.

Death is not justified for any peaceful citizen (even kuffars) whatever they believe, as long as their belief is with them … but once they start doing takfeeris and start creating fitna and fisad … then it is justified to kill them so that world becomes peaceful and safe from their fitna and fisad.

Takfeeris are people who call a person Kafir against that person’s confession or declaration that he/she is Muslim. Those who do Takfeer can be called Kafir (or Kharjees) so there is no takfeer on so-called Muslims who are Takferies (or Kharjees) … just like there is no takfeer on Kuffars (who confess or declare that they are not Muslim).

Salafis in general are those who do follow strict religious teaching and they may hold other unacceptable beliefs as others including you feel, but as long as they are peaceful, they should not be condemned to death, is the essence of my argument.

I agree with whatever you wrote above … that as long as they stay with their beliefs and practice without interfering with Muslims (these people could have educated discussion with Muslims, no problem) and as long as they do not start doing takfeer … and creating fitna and fisad … they have every right to live and practice their religion peaceful (however deviant their beliefs maybe for other Muslims).

Saleem bhai, you will never find me supprting those who commit crimes against humanity regarldless of which group or area they belong to.

The problem is that calling someone kharijis doesn’t stop there, people start thinking that they deserve to die even if they have not committed any crime.

According to no one … deobandi, wahabi, Salafi = Kharjees …

Kharjees are only those who do takfeer … and worse of Kharjees are those who not only do takfeer but use that takfeer to kill and create mayhem (become cause of fitna and fisad) … and it is these people who Muslims should fight and kill.

No one knows if Qayamat is near and no one can certainly know who kharijis are even if one reads the hadiths.

These hadiths are controversial in their interpretations and content at best.

Danger is that everyone can interpret hadiths his or her own way and can start hating any group of people.

Judging people and using hadiths to support hateful judgements is plain and simple wrong.

Here you are wrong … Hadith (Najdi Hadith) is crystal clear with no chance of misinterpretation. It is clear that Najdi hadith is about Wahabi fitna that started in and around Riyadh.

Here is why: I would only go into location … though one can go into traits and that also fits in with Wahabis and present day Kharjees creating fitna and fisad amongst Muslims.

1: People asked Prophet (SAW) to pray for Najd … and Prophet (SAW) said that horn of Shaitan would rise from Najd and that it is place of fitna and fisad … that means Najd at the time of Prophet (SAW) was Muslim land … otherwise people could not have asked Prophet (SAW) to pray for Najd … so it could not be anywhere outside Arabian peninsula (as during the time of Prophet (SAW), only Arabian Peninsula came under Muslim rule and most in this area accepted Islam (willingly or unwillingly).

[Iraq nor any part of Iraq was under Muslim rule during the time of Prophet (SAW) … neither people there were Muslim … so people could not ask Prophet (SAW) to pray for Iraq or any part of Iraq].

2: Najd is Arabic word and it means upland (or highland) … Najd (Saudi Arabia) is a plateau that is around 1000 metre above sea leave … all other places in Arabia is below that level … hence the name Najd. Thus Najd (Arabic word for upland) cannot be outside Arabic speaking area and at the time of prophet (SAW) Arabic was only language of Arabian Peninsula that all came under Muslim rule during the lifetime of prophet (SAW). Iraq or any other area cannot have Najd as at the time of prophet (SAW) language spoken in those areas was not Arabic.

3: Najd lies east of Hijaz … and in various hadith referring about horn of Shaitan and rise of ‘fitna and fisad’ … Prophet (SAW) pointed towards east.

Surprisingly there are only two worthwhile cities in the world that is exactly east of Madina and they are Abu Dhabi and Riyadh … with one difference, that is, only Riyadh is located at Najd.

Madina is 44.6 degree north of equator … and that is same for Riyadh and Abu Dahbi … Madina is at around 600 metre above sea-level … Riyadh is also at around 600 metre above sea level … anyhow, Riyadh is located on plateau of Najd that is around 1000 metre above sea level (hence it is named Najd or upland … or highland … by Arabs)

Note: Iraq is a lowland country that is north-east of Madina … not upland (Najd). Iraq is also not east of Madina (Iraq is north-east of Madina)… plus Iraq was under Persian rule at the time of Prophet (SAW) so there was no chance that Muslims would have asked Prophet (SAW) to pray for Iraq.

Most of Southern Iraq (including Kufa) was not even there during the time of Prophet (SAW). Kufa was established by Muslims as army garrison fighting Persian army during the time of Umar (RA) … knowing all that, it is impossible to even have any controversy about hadith or that hadith talks about Iraq.