sholay ka ultaam hogaya
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..aray bhai itna jazbaati na ho..
Yarooo mein bara pareshan ek larki jawaaan
Hai woh barii shaitaan mujhay kar gayi hairaan
Kaisay karoun inkaar wo jo karaing Izhaar
a1shah..did i ever tell u..i love u yaar
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sherry i love u too
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u know i know so many aalims who were once sunni..we even have this sunni family here who became shia..now they are so maulayee that we go to majlises there..God only shows light to those who really wants to learn and have the love for Prophet Mohummad
thats intewresting and great that u r mentioning love for Prophet Muhammed for a change .. I have attended many majlises in lahore with shia friends and always heard very weak responses whenever holy prophet Muhammads name was mentioned but high responses whenever hazrat Alis’s or ahle-e-baits name was mentioned..
degas i dont really care wether u believe this or not..but shia's do not love anyone more then Prophet Mohummad..and Prophet Mohummad loved Imam Ali and Bibi Fatima more then anyone..also Imam Hassan and Hussain
everytime we hear Prophets name we say Darood..Imam Ali is Sher e Khuda
Prophet aur Imam ek noor k do tukray hain
You can argue all you want but there is no way you are going to convince the other person that what they have believed in until now is wrong. religious people can be so arrogant.
It is for this reason that they say “Ignorance is bliss”
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Please find the link below for Sahih Muslim which claims that the Qur’an is in-complete:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/muslim/005_smt.html#038_b5
Book 5, Number 2286:
Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash’ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number.
They recited the Qur’an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you.
We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it:“If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.”
And we used so recite a slirah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: “Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise” (lxi 2.) and “that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection” (xvii. 13).
Any comments brothers/sisters ?
Salaam brothers and sisters,
This argument is getting nowhere.
Sholay, Its interesting how you are relating Dua-e-Ibrahimi (as) to Bani Israel.
Read Dua-e-Ibrahimi (as) again. Read the later part. "ZELIMEEN" one. Commiting a single sin makes one zalim.
Muhammad wa aal-e-Muhammad (as) are the group Hadrath Ibrahim (as) asked his dua for. Both history and tafseers back this (except for the wahabhi ones offfcourse).
Muhammad wa aal-e-Muhammad (as) are the only ones that quran testifies as being "MASOOM" (sinless).
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Every Shi'ite is required to believe this text from Al-Kaafi as an article of their faith.
I heard Abu Jafar (upon whom be peace) say: "None of the people has claimed that he collected the Quran completely as it was reveal- ed except a liar. No one collected and memorized the Qur'an as it was revealed except `Ali bin Abi Taalib and the Imams after him.
Deny it!**
[/quote]
Very true. The usmani qur'an is correct in content but not in order. The old and new verses are placed in an incorrect order.
Only the holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams (as) knew the correct sequencing of the quranic verses.
If you intend to see something wrong Sholay, thats all you'll see.
Keep an open mind and be enlightened.
Your scholars are no match for our holy imams (as), all of whom were taught from knowledge imparted to our holy apostle (pbuh) by Allah (swt).
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
** Very true. The usmani qur'an is correct in content but not in order. The old and new verses are placed in an incorrect order.
Only the holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams (as) knew the correct sequencing of the quranic verses.
**
[/quote]
So if Hazrat Usman didnt sequenced Quran in ur view did Hazrat Ali corrected him.. as this wasnt a worldly affair but av ery serious matter.. I dont think Hazrat Ali could had ignored it.. and if Hazrat Ali didnt did that how u come to know bout it ??
Degas,
Firstly, do you admit or believe that the qur'an in its present form is not ordered sequentially ?
Based on yr reply, I will elaborate further.
No I dont.. since i believe Quran is not a secret document like dead sea scrolls to be known to few people... its for every ones benefit.. please dont make even Quran controvercial since it was compliled by some Sahaba u dont like... in ur hatred for some one ur trying to torn apart the very thread which at least hold muslim ummah together in some way...
Brother Degas,
I suggest you ask your scholar as to whether the present Qur'an is in the correct order.
It is universally accepted that the qur'an in its current form has new verses (Medinite) that come before older verses (Meccan).
Keep an open mind. The fact that the qur'an is not sequenced in the proper order is not a shia-sunni issue, it is a fact.
ws
Sunni scholars confirm that the first Chapter
of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was Chapter al-Iqra'
(al-Alaq, Ch. 96).
Sunni References:- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454
As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran.
Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
towards the end of the present Quran.
This proves that although the Quran
that we have available is complete, it is not in the order that has been
revealed.
And Degas, why will this fact not bind muslims together ?
The content of the qur'an is the same - it is the order of the verses which is in error.
ws
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
The second of the two texts from Al-Kaafi mentioned above, is at- tributed to the son of Ja'far As-Saadiq. It reads:
It is related that Abu Baser said: "I entered upon Abu Abdullah [Ja'far As-Sadiq]... [Who] saidVerily we have with us the Qur'an of Fatimah (upon whom be peace).' I said: What is the Qur'an of Fatimah?' He replied:It contains three times as much as this Qur'an of yours. By Allah, it does not contain one single letter of your Qur'an' .
Is this true or false!**
[/quote]
Sholay, fear Allah (swt) and always speak the truth.
There is no tradition in Usul Kafi saying "Quran of
Fatimah". There are however, very few traditions in one chapter of Usul
Kafi which assert that Fatimah (AS) wrote a book (mushaf).
The tradition
states "THE BOOK OF FATIMAH". Surely Quran is a book (mushaf), but any book
is NOT Quran.
This allegation is as silly as saying "Quran of al-Bukhari" instead of "book of al-Bukhari"!
Also those few traditions in al-Kafi clearly state that there is NO single
verse of Quran in the Book of Fatimah.
This shows that the book of Fatimah
is TOTALLY different than Quran. Of course, it was three time bigger than
Quran in length.
Truth will always standout from falsehood.
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited June 02, 2001).]
The actual hadith from al-Kafi is as follows:
Abu Abdillah (AS) said: "... We have with us the Book of Fatimah, but
I do not claim that anything of the Quran is in it." (Usul al-Kafi,
Tradition #637)
ws
To all sunni brothers/sisters:
There is an aayah inside Quran where Allah (swt) is saying:
Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian (15:9)
As this verse is telling us, the Quran is protected by Allah (swt) himself.
If you accept that a group of people such as shia (or any group) has altered Quran, you are simply questioning the ability of Allah in preserving Quran.
In your zeal to discredit the shias, you are in fact showing dis-belief in Allah's (swt) commandment.
Restraining from such false accusations would be in the interest of all muslims, lest you commit sins that you are unaware of.
We must all solidly believe, that the qur'an is protected by Allah (swt) till the end of time.
No one, including the prophets (pbut), the imams (as), muslims, and non-muslims have the ability to change even one word of the qur'an.
I hope this puts an end to this matter.
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited June 02, 2001).]
Can I have the answer for my Question please?
Sholay
listen up there is no point in forcing your opinion on anyone else!!!!
There is no Sura such as Sura Waliyah
Sheraz,
Man we have tried to knock some sense into these people but to no avail(does Watcher ring a bell?)What makes you think they will open up now?
Remember they are
DUMB, DEAF AND BLIND? so no one can get them to admit to the truth because thier hearts are sealed
IF abu bakar and gang did not learn in the shdow of our holy Prophet what makes you think these Ignorant men will?
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
*No doubt that Ahle bait are Afzal and better than any human being on the earth as they are Prophet's(Salla Allah ho Alaihay Wasallam)family
We don't compare These Sahabas with Ahle Bait
*
[/quote]
So you admit the ahl-bait are Afzal, and second only to the holy prophet (pbuh) yet the sahabahs are "ranked" in order with Imam Ali (as) being fourth.
You admit that the sahabahs were nothing compared to the ahl-bait, yet you chose to compare the holy ahl-bait to the ordinary three.
On what basis do you compare the holy personalities who have been purified by Allah (swt) with mere mortals - mortals who committed mistakes, doubted the nabuwat of the holy apostle (pbuh), and dis-obeyed his commandments ?
ws.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
***Sholay*
listen up there is no point in forcing your opinion on anyone else!!!!
There is no Sura such as Sura Waliyah
Sheraz,
Man we have tried to knock some sense into these people but to no avail(does Watcher ring a bell?)What makes you think they will open up now?
Remember they are
DUMB, DEAF AND BLIND? so no one can get them to admit to the truth because thier hearts are sealed
IF abu bakar and gang did not learn in the shdow of our holy Prophet what makes you think these Ignorant men will?**
[/quote]
Brother, I suggest you to take it easy. Please all of you, keep the emotions out. Thanks.