Are Sunni Muslim??

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

sholay it seems like u got alot of free time

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

but here u go:

QUESTION:

What are the sources of shiah hadiths (by hadith, I mean the words of the
Holy Prophet [p.b.u.h] and not our Imams [a.s]), and how authentic are they
compared to the sunni sihah-e-sittah? Also, if they were compiled during the
same (around about) era then what makes them more authentic?

ANSWER:

With the Shiah Ithna-Asheri Muslims Hadith is what has been said, done and tacitly appoved by the Holy Prophet (s), the Twelve Imams (a) and (for some scholars) Bibi Fatima al-Zahra (a). Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (a) has said,
"My words (hadeeth) are the words of my father, and the words of my father
are the words of my grandfather, and the words of my grandfather are the
words of al-Hasan and the words of al-Husayn, and their words are the words
of Ameer al-Mu’mineen (a), and the words of Ameer al-Mu’mineen are the words of
the Prophet of Allah (s) and the words of the Prophet are the sayings (qawl) of
Allah, the Mighty and the Magnificence (Al-Kafi, Book 2, Hadith 155-14.)

As for the sources of our Hadith, including those attributed to the Holy
Prophet(s), the following three sets of books are normally referred to:

A. Al-Kutub al-Arba’ (the four cannonical books)-

  1. Al-Kaafi by Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Yaqun al-Kulayni (d. AH 329/941
    CE).
  2. Man laa Yahduaruh al-faqeeh by Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali al-Babuwayh
    popularly known as Shaykh al-Saduq (d.381/991-2).
    3.& 4. Tahdheeb al-ahkam and Al-Istibsaar, both by Abu Jafar Muhammad b.Hasan b. Ali al-Toosi. He was also known as Shaykha al-Taaifah
    (d. 460/1067).

B. The later four books

  1. Al-Wafi by Mulla Mohsin Fayd al-Kaashaani (d.1091/1680)
  2. Wasaa’il al-Shiah by Shaykh Muhammad b. Hasan al-Hurr al-Aamili
    (d.1104/1693).
  3. Bihaar al-Anwaar by `Allamah Muhammad Baqir b. Muhammad al-Taqi
    al-Majlisi (d. 1110/1699).
  4. Mustadrak al-Wasaa’il by Shaykh Husayn al-Noori (d.1320/?).

c. The two special compilations

  1. Nahj al-Balagha being a collection of sermons, writings and maxims of Imam
    `Ali b. Abi Talib and compiled by Sharif al-Radi (d.406/1015).

  2. Al-Saheefa al-Sajjadiyyah containing duas and munajat from Imam Ali
    Zayn al-`Abidin (a).

    Unlike the Sunni Muslims, none of our books is considered by our scholars
    as Sahih (authentic) in its entirety. Our scholars when making use of these
    hadith, especially when arriving to a juristic ruling (fatwa), study the
    authenticity of each individual hadith, employing the elaborate rules prescribed
    in the science of Hadith. One important principle in asserting the validity of a
    hadith is that it should conform with the Holy Qur’an.

we believe in Quran more then u and ur munafiq sahabs ..got it watcher

[This message has been edited by Sheraz CT (edited June 01, 2001).]

102

Youv'e stated it yourself:

. Al-Kaafi by Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Yaqun al-Kulayni (d. AH 329/941
CE). (This is one of your most respected books).

And here is the confirmation that you do NOT follow the Qur'aan.

The second of the two texts from Al-Kaafi mentioned above, is at- tributed to the son of Ja'far As-Saadiq. It reads:

It is related that Abu Baser said: "I entered upon Abu Abdullah [Ja'far As-Sadiq]... [Who] saidVerily we have with us the Qur'an of Fatimah (upon whom be peace).' I said: What is the Qur'an of Fatimah?' He replied:It contains three times as much as this Qur'an of yours. By Allah, it does not contain one single letter of your Qur'an' .

I'm not saying this, you are.

THe Qur'aan in circulation is false.

Read the above.

I rest my case.

103

I’ve had enough of talking to Kafirs.**
[/QUOTE]

Dear Sholay U can’t say like that, Thats why I asked U . ARE you MUSLIM? If yes you should not hav talked like that.
Take care

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104

sholay for u..i did bold a sentence at the end..are u dumb? blind? ignorant? or just dont want to accept the truth? any hadith that contradict Quran is not accepted by the shia's ..read again what i wrote above

i rest my case

105

Degas, in reply to Sheraz says; *¡§...u r worse than Qadianis.. who have only one more messenger after Hazrat Muhammed..”*
dear degas, what if you have a wrong impression about them? They didn’t made him a prophet, or did they?

Ok let me rephrase this one more time for you.
„« Does Quran claims that NO prophet can come? (give me a straight answer, a single verse even a weaker one would be sufficient)

„« And does quran claims KHATAM means LAST? If yes than HOW? Please explain in the light of Quran.

Degas, I am sorry to say, all you guys just yell and curse on opposite sects, you people squarely lacks civilized way of debating, next comes the tolerance.

and when I argue with you, you jump towards the escape door... please open your quran and come up if you wasn’t to discuss with QADIANIS. (just quran, svp)

thankx

and Sheraz, since you are pretending to be a smart aalim, let me put a question to you.
*Q. Does Believing and Following an Imam and Ahlaybait is must? *
*Please Give justify your reply from quran. (forget ahadiths and websites)

106

There are only two things to say for all this
garbage

1...All extremists oughtta be hunted down and killed(a contradictory statment in itself)

2...Where in Quran says about sects?

3...Where in quran does it speak of SHIAS, SUNNIS, WAHABIS, etc, etc?

4...Where does in Quran says blah blah SECT is TRUE sect of ISLAM?

5...Where in quraan does it speak of MY FAVORITE SECT?

6...Where in Quran does it specifically talk about one MASJID e ZARRAR to be demolished cos it was creating FACTION in ISLAM? surah baqrah

& finally

7...Where in quraan does it say if you follow blah blah sect especially that particular sect your are HEAVEN bound?

cogito ergo sum... "I think therefore I am..." & "I am therefore I think"

107

Zalim...
I dont follow any particular sect... so am not shouting at any particular sect since I dont believe bout sect thing in Islam.. and hevent read or would read any biased books written by any sect extremist.. I raed unbiased history of Islam from different historians which cleared many myths and fanticies associated with religion .. be it shais or sunnis... and am trying to learn all the time.
Now if someone says that Along with Prophet Muhammad his family gets revelation and are superhuman and better in any way than past messengers like Abraham, Christ, Moses and others or some one says Mirza Ghulam got above wali status and became messenger.. u bet am not gonna believe it but I wont care as far as no one starts hating Sahaba Karam ...
If someones faith has only survival value in hating some Sahabas then Allah help the person...

108

It's so simple people:

*** Islam is based on five things: The testimony that there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger, the establishment of salah, the fasting of Ramadhan, the payment of zakah and the performance of hajj. (Bukhari & Muslim)***

*Surah 2 Verse 201: "And there are some who say Our Lord! Grant us good in this world and good in the hereafter and save us from the punishment of the fire."
*

109

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

110

aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
sects
logical derivations
own conclusions
neem hakeem khatra-e-jaan, neem mullah khatra-e-emaan

depending upon conclusions of "ulema", "historians" will definitely divide us like this.

have you guys heard about Prophet PBUH asking Allah to strengthen Islam by converting Omar bin Khattab (RA) or Abu Jahal... and Allah Guided Omar bin Khattab (RA). did Allah make mistake (naooz billah) or Prophet PBUH made mistake here?

who suggested to invite people openly towards Islam? Omar bin Khattab (RA)

why did Prophet PBUH gave him title of FAROOQ?

why was Hazrat Abu Bakr given title of SIDDIQ? was it mistake by Allah or Prophet PBUH (naooz billah) ??

Shi'a : who are 'ashara mubashshara' in shia fiqh??

in one of Quran's ayats, Allah said to not distinguish between Allah's messengers ... then howcome we can raise "ahle bait" above messengers?

Please think...
wassalam

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

111

Treads gingerly into a sectarian mud-slinging contest

[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
we dont hate all the wives of Prophet but yes we do hate aisha..Prophet married her because of the will of Allah..to show u ignorant ppl that being with Prophet and living with Prophet does not always make u a nobel human and muslim
[/quote]

The thing that makes me uncomfortable about this statement is that it implies that the God who you and I both, being Muslims, worship, and who we both believe to be Ar-Rahman (The Most Compassionate), Al-'Adl (The Just), Al-Wadud (The Loving One), Al-Barr (The Benign) and Ar-Ra'uf (The Most Kind), would choose to use a 7 year old girl as a pawn to make a point.

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 01, 2001).]

112

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
As I suspected, not one relevant response.

Kafirs of the first order!

Make me sick.**
[/quote]

Sholay,

You have chosen to follow the behavior of Aisha for she too was deceptive in character who misled the ummah and caused dissension amongst thousands of muslims.

This is why it is important to follow the holy ahl-bait whose personality, nobility, and piety were second only to the holy apostle (pbuh).

Since you have no arguments left, you have chosen to revert back to your wahabi propaganda, calling shias kafir, and accusing them all all false beliefs.

This is what Muwayah, Yazid, and the Abbasids did for centuries, and this is what you, their followers have been taught to do.

Being a woman, your emotional imbalance gets the better of you.

I suggest that you take a deep breath and discuss in a cordial manner.

Islam does not require you to love the sahabahs. But it forces you to love the ahl-bait, salam on whom completes your namaz.

Ayat-e-Tahthir testifies to the purity of the ahl-bait (Verse 33:33). Sahih Muslim verifies that this verse was sent for the holy five (the holy prophet (pbuh), Imam Ali (as), Fatima Zahra (as), Imam Hasan and Hussain (as) ). I have given you the link to this sahih.

The qur'an itself has decisively told you that there were munafiqs amongst the companions of the holy prophet (pbuh). Only you suunis have chosen to ignore this verdict.

Shia's believe in the one and only qur'an, yet in your sahih books, Umar and Aisha categorically state that the qur'an is incomplete. Yet, you do not see any shias accusing sunnis of believing in a false qur'an. We all accept that the hadith must be in-correct.

Re-read your posts and stop making a mockery of yrself. I ask that you restrain from false accusations.

Now, if you wish, I can list out some of the events at which Abu Baker, Umar, and Usman disobeyed the holy apostle. So much so, that the second of the three casted suspicion on the nabuwat of the holy messenger (pbuh).

Are you ready for such proofs ? Again, it will all be from your books.

ws

[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited June 01, 2001).]

113

haha

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joke of the millinium

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114

Seems like you are the joke, Degas.

115

[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**

Now ur reduculing women… how can be jannat beneath feet of an imbalance creature…

hmmm. so u have nothing to say except stating again and again that ur faith is based upon hating Sahaba Karam whom almost all muslims love

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and stating facts from ur fabricated books which has nothing but venom.. no religious faith in the world teaches hatred except urs.. but thank God I have met and know shias who r not ur type and respect others faiths.. loving and respecting family of Prophet is very different from hating other Sahaba Karam..**

116

[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**
Islam does not require you to love the sahabahs. But it forces you to love the ahl-bait.....

Shia's believe in the one and only qur'an, yet in your sahih books, Umar and Aisha categorically state that the qur'an is incomplete.

I ask that you restrain from false accusations.

**
[/quote]

Brother, What makes you so convinced that we Sunnis don't love the family of the Prophet (SAWS)? We are required to say the following, at the end of each of every namaaz.

"Allahuma salliy ala Muhammad wa ala aali Muhammad, kama salayata ala Ibrahima wa aali Ibrahim. Inaka Hamidon Majid."
meaning "O Allah, bless Mohammed and his family as You blessed Ibrahim and his family. You are the Most Praised, The Most Glorious"

and then we say

"Allahuma barik ala Mohammad wa ala aali Muhammad kama barkta ala Ibrahima wa aali Ibrahima. Inaka Hamidon Majid."
meaning "O Allah, bestow Your grace on Mohammed and his family as You blessed Ibrahim and his family. You are the Most Praised, The Most Glorious."

Also, I have yet to find a single Sunni who believes that the Quran is incomplete. And yes, I would be grateful to you my brother if you could provide me with the references where Umar (ra) and Aisha (ra) stated that the Quran is incomplete, so that I may see for myself, check the veracity and read the context under which those statements were made.

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 01, 2001).]

117

mAd_ScIeNtIsT,
he thinks ahle-e- bait is ne alot karae hue hen.. and he can only love them by hating Sahabas

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

and making them superior to other messengers of God ..

118

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
** Brother, What makes you so convinced that we Sunnis don't love the family of the Prophet (SAWS)? We are required to say the following, at the end of each of every namaaz.

Also, I have yet to find a single Sunni who believes that the Quran is incomplete. And yes, I would be grateful to you my brother if you could provide me with the references where Umar (ra) and Aisha (ra) stated that the Quran is incomplete, so that I may see for myself, check the veracity and read the context under which those statements were made.

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 01, 2001).]**
[/quote]

Brother,

You have verified that sending blessings to the holy prophet (pbuh) and his ahl-bait completes our prayers. This should be sufficient as proof as to the lofty levels the holy ahl-bait possess.

One request - next time, please read my responses more carefully. Nowhere in my message did I say that sunnis do not send darood on the holy messenger and his ahl-bait. What I said was the fact that you do shows the difference between the holy creations of Allah (swt) and ordinary sahabahs.

If you mention the names of sahabahs in your prayers, your prayer becomes nullified.

If you send blessings to the ahl-bait, your prayer becomes complete. This is the difference between the two.

Secondly, I defended the sunnis by saying that the hadith mentioning the incompleteness of the qur'an is wrong and that sunnis do not believe in such a concept.

As far as the hadith is concerned, it is present in many of yr sahih books. Please check these out for starters:

Sahih Muslim

Muslim in the Seventh ( 7th ) part of his Sahih, in the book of Al
Zakat about the virtue of being satisfied with what ever God gives
about urging people to have that virtue, pp 139-140 (Arabic),
reported that Abu al-Aswad reported that his father said :
(For English version of Sahih Muslim see)
(Chapter CCCXCI, p500, Tradition #2286)
Abu Musa al-Ashari invited the Quran readers of Basra. Three
hundred ( 300 ) readers responded to his invitation. He told them
You are the readers and the choice of the People of
Basra. Recite the Quran and don't neglect it. Other
wise a long time may elapse and your hearts will ne
hardened as the hearts of those who came before you were hardened.
We used to read a Chapter from the Quran similar to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bara'ah in length and seriousness, but I forgot it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can remember from the Chapter only the following words :
Should a son of Adam own two valleys full of wealth, he should
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
seek a third valley and nothing would fill Ibn Adam's abdomen
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but the soil. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
We also used to read a chapter similiar to the Musabbihat and I
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
forgot it. I only remember out of it the following:
"Oh you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? (which is
now in another place in Quran 61:2) Thus a testimony shall be
written on your necks and you will be questioned about it on the
day of judgment." (which is a little different than what is in
another place in Quran 17:13)

: Sahih Muslim (English), Chapter CCCXCI, Tradition #2282:
Anas reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "If
the son of Adam were to possess two valleys of riches, he would long
for the third one. And the stomach of the son of Adam is not filled
but with dust. And Allah returns to him who repents."

119

Again, Shias do not accuse sunnis of believing in the incompleteness of the qur’an. Buts lets see what Aisha and Umar say about it. From yr own sahih books, the two believe many verses are missing:

WHAT AISHA SAYS:

Muslim also reported in the book of nursing ( al-Ridha ), v10
pages 29 (Arabic), that Aisha said the following :
There was in what was revealed in the Quran that ten ( 10 ) times
of nursing known with certainty makes the nursing woman a mother
of the nursed child. This number of nursing would make the woman
‘Haram’ to the child. Then this verse was replaced by ’ five ( 5 )
known nursing ’ to make the woman forbidden to the child. The
Prophet died while these words were recorded and read in the Quran.

WHAT UMAR SAYS:

Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih, v8, pp 209-210, that
Ibn Abbas reported that Umar Ibn al-Khattab said the following in
a discourse which he delivered during the last years of the caliphate.
*(For Arabic-English version of Sahih al-Bukhari see 8.817

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  • When Umar performed his last Hajj, he said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed
him the Book. One of the revelations which came to him
was the verse of stoning. We read it and understood it.
The Messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am
concerned that if time goes on, some one may say ' By God
we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God ';
thus, the Muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment
the Almighty revealed.

The hadiths are self-explanatory.

Bottomline, if the majority falsely accuse the Shias of believing in the in-completeness of the qur’an, then they should clean their own house first and foremost.

Based on the verdicts of Allah (swt), the holy prophet (pbuh) and the 12 holy imams (as), the qur’an is complete, in its entirety, and will be protected till the end of time by Allah Almighty.

So why accuse unjustly ?

120

Our faith is to follow the commandments of Allah (swt) and his holy prophet (pbuh).

In this regard, Shias view the companions in the same light as how Allah (swt) and his holy apostle (pbuh) viewed them. No more, no less.

And as far as facts are concerned, everything that has been presented has been taken from your authentic sunni Sahih sources. On one hand, you say that these are your authentic books. On the other hand, you see them as fabricated. Try and adopt a single stand.

You have opted to ignore these authentic sunni facts without reason.

Time and again, we have presented clear hadiths from your own Sahih books, and each time, you have chosen to conveniently overlook them.

The loss is yours.