Sheraz,
Note Degas's response. Secondly, who says that other Prophets or Sahaba karaam has not done as much if not more for Islam?
Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique and Hazrat Umer gave away their fortunes to save and provide protection for Muslims, protected our Prophet Mohammad by endangering their own lives for the sake of their love for Islam and Prophet Muhammad..and the list goes on and on. They did and offered what they had to the greatest extent. There is no reason for us to compare them because worthless Muslims like us are not in any authority to do so.
Paglu,
One thing again,, First Kalima was revealed to the Prophet by the method of Wahi by Angel Gibrail, and those are the orginal words of Allah. Any presumed additions to those are simply incorrect. I am personally not in knowledge of the historical incidence you have quoted above but by adding such "Wali" refrences to the Kalima " the direct words of Allah" to me is unacceptable.
[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
**degas thats the difference between your beliefs and ours.. you think they were just humans..and we believe Prophet and His Family are better then the Prophets that came earlier..you know why..because every Prophet one time or another complained to God when things werent going their way..they got frustrated.. but look at Imam Hussain..gave everything He had and was still thanking God till the last minute
a1shah bhai this gupshup mail does not work for me from my work..just email me at [email protected]
Shia kalma is "La-Illaha Illalah-Muhammad-ur-Rasool Allah". This is our wajib kalma. "Aliyan walli-ullah" is not a compulsory part.
Although as far as the credibility of "Aliyan-wali-ullah" goes, i have just proved it above from Quran and sunni books that there is nothing wrong with it.
Why shias say "Aliyan-wali-ullah" is a total different topic.
You Shias already disrespect most Sahabas now Paaglu....you have insulted Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah An hu)
You Shias call him Wali Allah.....
While we sunnis think Walis come into being by the kick of his foot toe....
If you go to Pakistan And call Gen. Pervaiz Musharraf as police inspector....you can imagine what would happen to you
He is the king of Walis...don't just call him wali
[quote]
Originally posted by Pagluu:
**Lady Intelligent Assalam Alaikum,
Shia kalma is "La-Illaha Illalah-Muhammad-ur-Rasool Allah". This is our wajib kalma. "Aliyan walli-ullah" is not a compulsory part.
Although as far as the credibility of "Aliyan-wali-ullah" goes, i have just proved it above from Quran and sunni books that there is nothing wrong with it.
Why shias say "Aliyan-wali-ullah" is a total different topic.
Book 31, Number 6005:
'A’isha reported that all the wives of Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) had gathered (in her apartment) during the days of his (Prophet’s) last illness and no woman was left behind that Fatima, who walked after the style of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), came there. He welcomed her by saying: You are welcome, my daughter, and made her sit on his right side or on his left side, and then talked something secretly to her and Fitima wept. Then he talked something secretly to her and she laughed. I said to her: What makes you weep? She said; I am not going to divulge the secret of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). I ('A’isha) said: I have not seen (anything happening) like today, the happiness being more close to grief (as I see today) when she wept. I said to her: Has Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) singled you out for saying something leaving us aside? She then wept and I asked her what he said, and she said: I am not going to divulge the secrets of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). And when he died I again asked her and she said that he (the Holy Prophet) told her: Gabriel used to recite the Qur’an to me once a year and for this year it was twice and so I perceived that my death had drawn near, and that I would be the first amongst the members of his family who would meet him (in the Hereafter). He shall be my good forerunner and it made me weep. He again talked to me secretly (saying):
Arn’t you pleased that you should be the sovereign amongst the believing women or the head of women of this Umma? And this made me laugh.
Fatima Zahra is the leader of the women in paradise. That is her lofty level which cannot be reached by ANY other woman. Such is the shaan of the holy ahl-bait. It was bacause of them that Islam was saved from tyranny and the likes of Yazid, the Umayah, and the Abassids.
They illuminated the ummah with their knowledge and piety. They are the proof of Allah (swt) and the rope mentioned in the Qur’an.
Allah’s (swt) blessings be on the holy messenger (pbuh) and his ahl bait.
ws.
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited June 01, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
*You Shias already disrespect most Sahabas now Paaglu....you have insulted Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah An hu)
You Shias call him Wali Allah.....
While we sunnis think Walis come into being by the kick of his foot toe....
If you go to Pakistan And call Gen. Pervaiz Musharraf as police inspector....you can imagine what would happen to you
He is the king of Walis...don't just call him wali
*
[/quote]
Wasir, I am not talking abt worldly made WALIS.......man u r dumb.
I gave u the ayat from quran that says Allah and rasool r WALI....what do u say abt that??
I dont wanna get into discussion with you anyway. You say stuff w/o having much knowledge. bye
Bro Paaglu...and other brothers
One thing if somebody would have noticed in my posts is that I don't post any Ayats, Hadits or any other narrations, long cut and paste articles. I only try to talk realistically and present my own opinion with logical answers in plain English which everybody understands.
And Bro Paaglu...have you ever answered any of my questions properly.....
whenever you are stuck you wouldn't answer.
If my knowledge is not so good i am not worried because I am learning....my worry would start when I stop striving to learn Islam.
And All Brothers please answer Ayat for ayat and Hadit for Hadit
but plain English for Plain English....
[quote]
Originally posted by LaDy iNtElleCT:
*Sheraz,
Note Degas's response. Secondly, who says that other Prophets or Sahaba karaam has not done as much if not more for Islam?
Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique and Hazrat Umer gave away their fortunes to save and provide protection for Muslims, protected our Prophet Mohammad by endangering their own lives for the sake of their love for Islam and Prophet Muhammad..and the list goes on and on. They did and offered what they had to the greatest extent. There is no reason for us to compare them because worthless Muslims like us are not in any authority to do so.
*
[/quote]
lady atleast we are Muslims..cant say the same thing about ur khalifas..and please they did not save Prophet anywhere..these ppl ran away from the battle field..it was abu bakr who hurt the feelings of Prophets daughter..it was umar who called Prophet insane..it was aisha who fought with Imam Ali..if u dont believe me i can give u references from ur sahi books
now if u wanna tell me that u only believe in Quran and u dont really care bout sahi books then its fine with me..just let me know first wether u respect ur sahi books or not..then we can continue
33:33
And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salât (IqamâtasSalât), and give Zakât and obey Allâh and His Messenger.** Allâh wishes only to remove ArRijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification.**
Now Can anyone tell me** which prophet(or his Mother) was purified through Purification?** as far as I know no where in the Quran is it said that this or that prophet is Pure form evils(sins)ect.
{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-} ------------_ ............*
Persist in jihad in the cause of Allah, with your money, your souls, and your tongue.
(Imam Ali)
------------- ............*
{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}{-}
Sheraz don't talk false they didn't hurt Prophet's(Salla Allah hu Alaihe Wasallam) feelings
Abu Bakr(Radi Allah an hu)_ran from battlefield??? that Abu Bakr who didn't hasitate to send his army on a difficult mission in very bad circumstances only caz it had been decided in Prophet's time....
That Abu Bakr(Radi Allah an hu) who didn't fear even for a second to fight with powerful tribes who refused to pay Zakat
Well said in Urdu
Shi Belief is not" HUBB-E-ALI"(love for Ali)
but it is based on"BUGHAZ-e-MUAWIA"(Hate for Muawia)
Thank God there were only three Caliphs before Hadrat Ali, otherwise don't know how many Great great Sahabas would have been cursed by you Shia people
No harm to those great people, but only increment of fire of hell for disrespectful people
[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
** lady atleast we are Muslims..cant say the same thing about ur khalifas..and please they did not save Prophet anywhere..these ppl ran away from the battle field..it was abu bakr who hurt the feelings of Prophets daughter..it was umar who called Prophet insane..it was aisha who fought with Imam Ali..if u dont believe me i can give u references from ur sahi books
now if u wanna tell me that u only believe in Quran and u dont really care bout sahi books then its fine with me..just let me know first wether u respect ur sahi books or not..then we can continue
Now it doesnt even surprise me whatever Sheraz writes as he has declared that Hazrat Fatima is more greater than any prophet before Hazrat Muhammad. To me both Hazrat Abu Bake and Hazrat Fatima are humans both capable of making mistakes. But were those mistakes large enough to discredit a persons whole lifes achievements. Can anyone find in the just rule of Hazrat Abu Bakr any wrong doings that were unislamic. How can we judge Islamically differences between those sahabas. Over blowing petty daily differences and making a part of religion is but a way to make hatred a sourse of ones religion.
And one can read any western or impartial historian and judge Hazrat Umers 10 years of glorious rule in which; with the grace of Allah Islam spread to far corners of the world ,since Sahabas were sincere to Islam.
You have the nerve to state 'lady atleast we are Muslims..cant say the same thing about ur khalifas.
I don't usually get involved with sectarianism warfare, but on this occassion I will make an exception.
I am using your logic of thought and will categorically state that 'Shi'ites are Kafir'.
They are not Muslims, no matter which way you look at it.
They despise the Prophet PBUH and his family, by only accepting a select few.
They curse the Prophet PBUH, by cursing his wives and in-laws.
They do not accept the Qur'aan in it's current original format. They believe that Hazrat Fatimah RA recieved further revelation after the death of The Prophet PBUH. Therefore they have another Qur'aan.
They do not accept Allah SWTA as the one and only God, because they imply that Allah SWTA made mistakes by choosing Prophets above Imaams. Therefore their God is different
They commit Shirk by praying to a stone.
They forge lies against the Prophet PBUH's family.
They hate Hazrat Ali RA, by accusing him of being weak, by letting 3 people take Caliphate from under his nose.
They believe that Hazrat Ali RA has a higher status than any Prophet and is equal to the Seal of Prophets PBUH.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
To me both Hazrat Abu Bake and Hazrat Fatima are humans both capable of making mistakes. But were those mistakes """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
can you give me any example about Hazrat Fatima (a s),
but surely 9i can give you lots of example how hazrat abu bakar made mistakes
i think you dont know diffrence about Masoom and human being????
i simply can laugh on your thinking , but the truth is you are "jahil" as you did not undersatn Prophet Muhammad(pbu) how you will understand prophet Muhammad,s(p b U) followers????????
imtiazdgk,
I only said capable of making.. and all humans make them..its only when someone tries to deliberately blow up then they are visible..
Vast majority of muslims believe that only only messengers from God are masoom .. but if u believe that even Prophet Muhammds's respected family was greater than other messengers from God then there is no point in arguing...
why are no shias disputing what the sunnis are saying, is it because the truth was infront of them, ie. in the quraan?
it is hard when we are bought up believing a certain way, but we all have our intellects to use instead of our prides. look at the quraan carefully and refer to the prophet's teachings, and nothing else as this will cause much fitna in the world. make a decision based on the quraan and sunnah and nothing else then all will be evident.
i hope to see the day we are united as an ummah and fighting those who fight us instead of each other.