Are Sikhs Hindus in Disguise??

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Rani.....>>Sikhs have requested Pakistani government many times to allow them to look after their Gurudawaras (in Pakistan) but tolerant Muslims have never allowed them to do so. <<

I think you meant 'fundametal' Muslims (?) But Rani it is like asking Saudia Governments to allow Muslims of Pakistan ot Indonesia to look after the religious places located in Mecca or Madina. Afterall where is the sovereignity of every country??

I appreciate you answers. I have been to Gorodawaras quite often and have many friends who are Sikhs. Frankly I would prefer a Sikh friend than a Hindu. The reason I put that message was the interesting punishments prescribed to the guilties. They have manyfold results. Thanks again.

:)

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so u have to ask Pakistanies to go to your worshipping places... and beg the hindus to spare ur lives. very pitiful.

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Bakhtiar

But Rani it is like asking Saudia Governments to allow Muslims of Pakistan ot Indonesia to look after the religious places located in Mecca or Madina. Afterall where is the sovereignity of every country??<<

Actually it is not because Saudia Government is keeper of Islam, whereas Sikhs were forced to to leave their Gurudawara (Nanak's birth place) behind along with their ancestral homes, I don't see how presence of a few caretakers will jeopordize the safety of the country.

Thousands of Muslims from Pakistan visit 'Pir Chisti's Dargah' in Ajmer every year. India is home to 120 million muslims and they enjoy all the religious freedom which they should, but at the same time muslim world has to show toleration towards other religious groups. It is sad that army general is looking after historical Gurudawaras in Pakistan.

I prefer a Sikh friend over a Hindu<<

Is it because you are a punjabi and share common language and culture with Sikhs. Just curious?

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited February 09, 2000).]

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Pakistani Punjabis have lost all Punjabi culture and soon will lose language. Punjabi is spoken only by drivers and rikshawallas and lower classes, who cant manage Urdu, I am told.

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Rani.....>>Actually it is not because Saudia Government is keeper of Islam, whereas Sikhs were forced to to leave their Gurudawara (Nanak's birth place) behind along with their ancestral homes, I don't see how presence of a few caretakers will jeopordize the safety of the country. <<

Iqbal, a great poet of East once said,

Khird nay keh bhi diya La Ila tou kiya hasil
dil o nigah Musalmaan nahi tou kuch bhi nahi

Loosely translated it means, that even if one utters La Ila Illal, (there is no God but Allah.... a declaration of being a Muslim), it will be of little use, unless one accepts Islam in heart. I am saying this that just because holy places of Islam are found to be in Saudi Arabia it does not necessarily mean that the Government is keeper of Islam. Religious places or buildings are nothing more than forwalls and bear no significance. The salvation lies in the philosophy and who so ever encompasses this is the keeper of Islam or anyother religion for that matter. No one forced Sikhs out of those places. It was a choice, and political or may be social dicision they made in 47. Just like my parents made a choice to migrate to Pakistan in 47. I do not want to dig old corpses by discussing who is/was right or wrong!!

But for your kind information, the daily caretaking is still performed by Sikhs, be it in Hasan Abdal or Nankana. Pakistan, bad as it may have been in other avenues, have never stood in the way of or opposed Sikh religion or its litrature or its people. It is not necessary for others to agree with you at the same time. One is free to choose one's ideologies. Thousands of Sikh also visit Pakistan for their own religious festivals. They feel very free. Some say they feel free-er here than there. But anyhow. My point was and is that .....no matter what political or geographical lines one may draw for the existence of Masjid e Aksa in Jerusalam. The fact remains that it is third holiest site in Islam and is an icon of Islam and not of Zionism. So is Guru Nanak's birth place for you, be it in Pak or Khalistaan. I hope one day when you finally succeed in securing your homeland, Khalistan, from India, you may not start a fued with Pakistan that Nankana is atut ang of Khalistan, thus Pakistan must evacuate it.

:)

And ZZ...>>Pakistani Punjabis have lost all Punjabi culture and soon will lose language. Punjabi is spoken only by drivers and rikshawallas and lower classes, who cant manage Urdu, I am told<<......

sorry you are misinformed again. I had three drivers and non speak Punjabi, and I have travelled in rikshaws, and met very few Punjabi rikshawallas. While I agree that drivers and rikshawalas are from poor class of people and if you happen to live in Mombai, you will see most of such people....not Punjabi speaking.

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oh .. ya... sikhs migrated out of pakistani punjab just for tourism. none forced them.. yup yup..

and bayaktar seems a stronger khalistani than sikhs, i just thought he would just plead paki govt to hand over nanakana to sikhs even now, why wait for khalistan.

I may be misinformed and as u say there may be more Punjabi speaking drivers in Mumbai than in Pakistani Punjab.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited February 09, 2000).]

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Hi,
I haven’t been following this discussion, cuz..well I’m not interested khair.
Re. Handing over Nankana sahib to Sikhs, Pakistan’s Gov. is taking care of it, if that was what you were concerned about and many Sikh visit the place (ehhh do you call them pilgrims?)

As for handing it over, a part from being a Sikh gurudawara it’s also a part of our history/culture, so any good reason for why we should hand over our historical place to non-Pakistanis. And what’s wrong with the Sikh’s in Pakistan, why not let them handle their matter’s as per their religious
beliefs?
By the way I thought you said Muslims had demolished all Sikh holy places hmmm…it must be my imagination. On a serious note, Pakistanis generally have a lot of respect for Sikhs and your religion, it’s a shame to see that we keep provoking each other to ridicule our religions – some time ago I saw a report about some Sikh either cultural festival or some religious festival, and according to the reports Pakistani Muslims did not have problems with that to say the least.

Pakistani Punjabis have lost all Punjabi culture and soon will lose language. Punjabi is spoken only by drivers and rikshawallas and lower classes, who cant manage Urdu, I am told<<

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

Someone lied to you….again. How do you loose a culture? About Punjabi only being spoken by drivers – well could be true, I mean most of us do know how to drive. Lekin rikshawallas naaaah we have rickshaw in all parts of Pakistan and don’t tell me that pakhtun rikshawaalas speak Punjabi. Punjabi is very much a live masha allah– you can see it in our film industry and our dramas, if you don’t wanna start a detailed research work.

By the way what was the topic about?

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/rolleyes.gif

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ZZ

your information about Punjabis is way off. Yes Punjabis can all speak urdu in Pakistan but everyday language is still very much Punjabi.

fakepaki…we do whatever jobs we can find. All the jobs in the circus are already taken by the Indians.

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/clown.gif

fakepaki

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I thought I will revive this thread to avoid unnecessary repetition of arguments.

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ZZ

You are dead right. Why wait for qiamat, hein???

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On this forum. I notice on one front, Rani defending the belief Hinduism is more related to Sikhism than Islam.

And then on the other front, someone else who has provided the article on how Sikhism is an offshoot of Islam.

This is actually quite funny, since the same thing happened about 400 years ago, when both Muslims and Hindu's argued who had the right to keep Nanak Dev Ji's robe/clothes, and how it should be laid to rest.

It seems that even after 400 years, Muslims and both Hindu's know that Sikhism is a good religion and want to claim it as part of their own. When it's different, as Nanak puts it. "We're neither, Hindu or Muslim", and I bet ChanMahi will agree to this.

Arai

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[quote]
Originally posted by arai:
**Muslims and both Hindu's know that Sikhism is a good religion and want to claim it as part of their own.

Arai**
[/quote]

just a curiosity, arai, what made u leave such a good religion and become an atheist.

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ZZ.

Excellent question. I was waiting for someone to bring this up. It seems, with the numerous times I've mentioned being Athiest and defending Sikhism. That noone would ever question it.

It's simple as this. Sikhism has very good practices and objectives that really can be achieved without mentioning or worshipping a God. The guru's were very smart people, and their intelligence in life and wisdom is what I respect most.

  1. Equality for Man kind, without regard to race, religion, sex, creed.

  2. To help the poor

  3. To live an honest life.

  4. To make best of life while you live it.

Are examples of Sikhism, without even mentioning God, Wahe-Guru, Allah, or Ram.

Atheism in contrast, simply straightfoward is, to reject
Superstition
Supernatural claims
God(s), Prophets, Sorcerers
To live life, in respect with Science (www.atheists.org)
And anything, that on the basis of Science would seem ridiculous.

However, it doesn't mean one can't live his life as an Atheist without moral values.

Science doesn't give an Athiest moral values (my Quantum Physics text doesn't talk about treating all atoms and quarks with equality). This is where we goto wise people, who know life can be lived without talking to this imaginary being/hope named God.

It's as simple as that.

Take care, bro..

Arai

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Now according to Arai, atheist can be a Sikh and belief in god is not necessary to be a sikh. This is getting too far.

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I never said I was Sikh. I've always said I am of Sikh background.

There is a DEFINITE difference there.

Sikhism is one of only religion in the worlds you can be a part of, without being ritually converted, because Sikhism is a religion based on basic moral beliefs that other religions have twisted.

In Islam, they believe all Man is equal. But, to be equal with Muslims I must be Muslim, therefore I am hated by Allah. Does this really mean I'm equal? Yes, Islam respects equality, but really only equality of all Muslims. In contrast, all Hindu's aren't equal to each other, yet they are of same faith. This is how Islam preaches equality.

Sikhism, all MEN REGARDLESS OF RELIGION, RACE, CREED, COLOUR are equal.
Even you being Muslim, I look at you equally. I don't have to believe in God to believe in that basic moral, nor do I have to be Sikh! But, Sikhism is the only religion who still protects basic rights of ALL PEOPLE. Even of Atheists. Whereas, from hear-say. To be an Atheist is a bigger sin to even be a part of another religion. To reject God completely is worse in Islam.

Arai

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Where in the world did this come from?? Some “reliable” source of yours??? Dont start spreading gossip please, and DONT generalize ALL Pakistani punjabis

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif

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This is just soooo sad!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif

You couldnt be more wrong!! ALL human beings in Islam are EQUAL regardless of their religion. And it is BLASPHEMOUS to say that Allah (SWT) hates non-Muslims!! HE loves all of HIS creation.
As Allah says, an Arab is not superior to an Arab, nor a white superior to a black. NO mention of religion. Please dont spread such misconstrued facts about Islam based on your opinion or the behaviour of some Muslims.

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Therefore, if Allah doesn't hate me. He wouldn't send me to Hell? Is this correct?

So if Allah likes me, and believes I'm as equal as a Muslim, therefore I will get the same benefits of a Muslim after-life? Afterall, I am equal right?

So, if you look at it that way. There is no purpose in being a Muslim if Allah would like you regardless of being Muslim or not?

Interesting.. So, I can stick to my atheistic views, and if by some sort of chance there is a God, hey I should not worry since he likes me anyway.. !

yay I say.

Arai

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[quote]
Originally posted by arai:
**

Therefore, if Allah doesn't hate me. He wouldn't send me to Hell? Is this correct?

So if Allah likes me, and believes I'm as equal as a Muslim, therefore I will get the same benefits of a Muslim after-life? Afterall, I am equal right?

So, if you look at it that way. There is no purpose in being a Muslim if Allah would like you regardless of being Muslim or not?

Interesting.. So, I can stick to my atheistic views, and if by some sort of chance there is a God, hey I should not worry since he likes me anyway.. !

yay I say.

Arai**
[/quote]

Okay,i'll try to answer this as best as i can. All humans ARE equal in the eyes of Allah. However, what makes one person better than another, is his/her character, behaviour, faith, and obedience of Allah. But once a person starts introducing associates with Allah or DENIES His existence, he/she commits the BIGGEST sin there is, according to Muslims. In that situation, a Muslim would eventually be the one to receive better treatment in the after-life.
Let me make just another point clear, Allah does not hate anyone, even if a person's an athiest, because He is obviously the One who decides who'll be an atheist, Muslim, Christian etc.... He has also given humans the power of reasoning and intellect to eventually decide what the right path is. And when a person decides to ignore that path, then he/she is in trouble.
Sorry, im not a scholar or anything so i've tried to explain this as best as i can without contradicting any Islamic beliefs.
But really, this is not the best place to get info. of such importance...most of us are merely expressing our opinions in accordance with Islam.

80

Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate it, it does make sense of course.

So, Allah's will made me an Atheist? So does that mean Allah's will made Muslims, got an 'head start' if you may, since they don't have to do much but remain true to their religion..

Whereas, we would have to do more dramatic things to be good in the eyes of Allah. Seems like, we've been thrown on a harder path.

Arai