Dear Brother Cool Dude,
In the begining you sound liked an intelligent person, as i read few lines from your first post i just could not help myself laughing. Wha ya did has nothing to do with your intelligence thats your ignorance. Oh bhi can ya tell me , ya said that in Kalma Ahmadis refer toMirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadianai. Hey yaar are ya in your senses , why dont ya leave your personal views and self created ideas and the things that havebeen impose d on you by your elders , while debating on something critical like religions. Ahmadis read the same Kalma as normal Muslims and believe in the same meaning tha is "There is no God but allah and Mohammad (pbuh) is His Prophet"
Oh bhi .. get back into reality , come back into the ratioanal world , and get out of that embroyinc cell of the propagunda of molvis. aur Bhi the one who recites Kalima and believe in the Five Pilleres of Islam he is Muslim .. either he is Shia or Sunni aor any other. Not matter what other things he believes in but he remains a muslim and a cant say that he is outta the cirlce of Islam and nobody have this right but god.
Hey try to get some books on Qadianiat and books about shias and then read them and try to find some valid point from there ,.. I think ypu'll be carefull from now onwards My Brother. And note it that ya may read the books about the religion by some authenticated authour ofthat sect or religion. Plz yaar BE RATIONAL and try to figure the reality of the world RATIONALy and dnt have a bias opinion about anyone. One who calls oneself a muslim and believes in Five Pillars he Is a Muslim. ANd Shias Believe in the five Pillar of Islam. And some say that they dnt give zakaat . Then its wrong they gather there own zakaat by there own people in Our part of the world and then distribute it among those who they consider are needy. This is an obviuos thing. They have an equal right to do so .
Lucifer
Bhi cool dud, I am sorry if i 've offended ya in some way .. but again its my suggestion that dnt keep a bias opinion about any one and keep an open mind
THIS GOES FOR THE PERSON ON TOP WHO SAID QURAN IS INCOMPLETE!!(TOBA ASTAKFAAR)
ALLAH PROMISED THAT TILL THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, ALLAH WILL TAKE CARE OF HIS HOUSE AND HIS LAST BOOK(WHICH IS QURAN-E-MAJEED), SO THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT QURAN BEING INCOMPLETE. IT IS THE REVEALED WORD OF ALLAH AND IT CANT BE INCOMPLETE. IF U BELIEVE IN ALLAH, THEN U HAVE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT HE PROMISED BECOZ ALLAH APNAI WAADOU KA POORA KARNAI WALA HAI!! THATS WHY HE IS "ALLAH"!!!
MA ASALAAM
YOUR SISTER IN ISLAM
MASOOMA
P.S AND YEA ONE THING MORE, WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE ANY PERSON, ITS ONLY ALLAH WHO WILL DECIDE WHO IS MUSLIM AND WHO IS NOT!!! PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW QURAN, BELIEVE IN ONE GOD,DAY OF JUDGMENT, 4 HOLY BOOKS, PROPHETS, AND TAKE PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) AS THE LAST MESSENGER OF ALLAH,READ THE KALMA-TAYEBA THE WAY PROPHET RECITED IT, ARE ALL MUSLIMS!! AND THATS THAT!!!
Well Mr. Lucifer.. I would suggest you also keep your comments to a minimum unless you know what you are talking about too. For starters I pose a question to you. Are you a practicing Ahmedi.. an upholder of the Ahmediyyah movement.. if you are then show us some light about your faith or the Ahmedi movement. It is a well stated fact that Mirza CLAIMED to be a prophet… he belived that he was a prophet among many other things at the same time. This is the sole reason why Ahmedis are labelled non-muslims in Pakistan. There are religous Alims in Pakistan like no other. People who have subjected religous matter to a series of studies to come out with results and thus people who have Ahmedi written on their Pakistani passport are FORBIDDEN to perform Hajj. What makes you think so many of them are coming to the states and other places to practice their religion. TAke a look at the following links
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/#qadiani
and http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/finalprophet.html
Even if Ahmedis themselves do NOT consider Mirza to be the last prophet and beleive that Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet why do they still claim that Mirza is the Medhi or was a religous Alim when it is know that he CLAIMED to be a prophet. Where does he come in to take the place of Hazrat Isa’s place in the battle against the anti-christ. Why do they take from him.
Reps of more then 100 countries unanimously upheld their point of view that Ahmeids are NON-MUSLIMS. Why weren’t shias given the same treatment. The beleifs of the Shias have water and weight in them. They follow proper teachings and only fundamentalists try to alter the meaning of their teachings. They are as muslim as the next sunni in this group. Stop bashing Shias for no reason. I have had Shia friends all my lives and have had many discussions with them. Ahmedis.. that is another matter. But remember Allah Knows best!
He is not a Pashtoon who does not give a blow in return for a pinch.
I AGREE WITH SERHAT!! Shia's are muslims and so are Sunni's but with Ahmadi's its a diff SITUATION! BUT ALLAH KNOWS THE TRUTH, NO ONE CAN LOOK INTO EACH OTHERS SOUL, AND JUDGE WHAT THEIR BELIEFS ARE, ITS ONLY ALLAH WHO CAN DO THAT.
FE AMAN ULLAH
PEACE OUT
MASOOMA
Masooma, here is a question for you:
Have you read any book on Ahmadis? And in your opinion why aren’t they Muslim?
Asalam-u-alaikum
Nyahmadi, i didn't mean to offend anyone, i would give the same reason as serhat gave. If its true that Ahmadi people say mirza was a prophet, then ofcourse, its obvious that they are going against Allah and Quran, because as we know Muhammad (s.a.w.)was the last messenger of Allah, there will be no messenger sent by Allah anymore. Allah finished the nabowat and began imamat hood. i didn't read much about Ahmadi's because when i first heard what they believe about Mirza, there was no point for me to do any further research because this single belief of ahmadi's itself explains everything.
MA ASALAAM
MASOOMA
Sup NyAhmedi!!
Every Ahmedi I meet comes up with the same explaination and justification "Have you read any of the Quaidanat books".. well frankly speakin I haven't and frankly speakin again I dont care too.. besides religious books other books like.. Brittanica clearly state that Mirza thought himself to be a Prohphet.. Mehdi.. the Hindu God Krishna and what not. .further more.. Ahmedis beleive that Mirza was Mehdi and that Hazrat Isa (as) is not going to come back with angels on his side to slay the anti-christ.. they think that the Mehdi came in the form of Mirza. They have books and books and volumes full of justification.. like something that happened in space that was mentioned in the Holy Quran and all.. well dude.. frankly speakin I don't see any weight in those justifications.. when it has been stated that Hazrat Muhammad (Saw) is the last Prohpet it STOPS there.. anyone who claims otherwise is automatically an infidel in my eyes.. these are my opinions and are restricted to myself.. I have lots of Ahmedi friends and I treat them like I would treat any other person.. but one has to get out of the ahmedi teaching circle and analyse their religion from a neutral point of view to identify and understand the fallacies it holds.. as said b4.. my opinions.. and remember Allah knows best!!
Salamz!!
He is not a Pashtoon who does not give a blow in return for a pinch.
No one is looking into the souls of anyone and judging them, rather this judgement is based upon what they utter from their mouths and what they write in their books. If the Quran is not a criterion between falsehood and the truth, between the path that leads to paradise and hellfire, between the path of Allah and the path of Devil, then what's it for.
And the Shias do not follow the Sunnah of the Prophet(saw), since they reject narrations from the majority of the companions, reject the books of hadith(bukhari, muslim, aboo dawood, tirmidhee), therefore they reject most of the Sunnah. And before you start asking me for proof, bring the books of their scholars, which are filled with hadith quoted from these books or narrated by Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with them).
This refutations of Shia'ism have been going on since it shot off from Ahlus-Sunnah. A few books that come to mind are:
1. Sharh as-Sunnah of Imam al-Barbahaaree (d. 329h)
2. Many books By ibn Taimiyah
3. Talbees Iblees (Devil's Deception) by Imam ibn al-Jawzee
From Abdullah ibn Masood, who said, Allah's Messenger(saw) drew a line for us then he said, "This is Allah's way", then he drew lines to it's right and it's left, and said, "These are different ways, upon each of these is a devil calling to it." Then he recited
"And verily this is my way, so follow it and do not follow other paths for they will separate you from His path." (6:153)
(at-Tayaalisee(no. 244 and Ahmad(1/435))
Know that at the head of Shi'asm is a devil calling to it. And to believe all sects amongst the muslims are upon the straight path is a lie and contradiction with hadith of the Messenger(saw) where he mentioned concerning the Ummah splitting into 73 sects and only one of them is correct (reported by at-Tirmidhee).
[This message has been edited by salafi (edited June 25, 2000).]
So, (BB)bubblebuster - calling yourself salafi, this time, are ya?
It took you a while to recover from the beatings that was inflicted upon you & your chamchas. This time, it'll be much, MUCH worse!
BTW, we ahl as sunnah do not consider salafis/najdis/wahabis/ahle hadith muslims; so next time call yourself the "heretics, gone astray" that you all are! Understood!
Logical, Please don't do that! Have I been a naughty boy? Okay, I won't do it again! I promise!
And who is BB, from the way you're talking about him, I'd love to meet him.
Anyway, just to make up, I thought I'll share some news I was just reading about your drunken Russian brothers in Chechnya. Read & weep.
Saturday 24 June 2000 More Than 120 Russians Killed in Seven Separate Ambushes
By the Grace of Allah Most High, the Mujahideen carried out seven different ambushes and several additional strikes against Russian troops stationed across Chechnya. The attacks that took place on Friday and Saturday were conducted in Grozny, Neger Yurt, Mesker Yurt, Shatoi and other locations. Mujahideen sources confirm that at least 120 Russian soldiers were killed and that 15 vehicles, including 13 armoured vehicles and one tank, were destroyed in the attacks.
What follows are brief descriptions of the main strikes executed by the Mujahideen during the past 48 hours:
Mujahideen Decimate Russian Reconnaissance Company Near Shatoi
Mujahideen units under the leadership of Field Commander Dawud Ahmadov ambushed on Friday a Russian reconnaissance company near the town of Shatoi. The Mujahideen identified the unit and tracked it for sometime before choosing an appropriate location to spring the ambush; The attack took the Russian unit by surprise and most enemy troops fled in panic. Mujahideen sources confirm that 40 Russian soldiers were killed in the attack and that many more were injured. The survivors of the doomed unit escaped by boarding helicopters that extracted them several kilometers from the site of the ambush.
During the fighting five Mujahideen were killed and 12 others were injured; may Allah Most Merciful accept those killed as martyrs in the highest levels of Paradise, and may He hasten the recovery of the wounded.
Mujahideen Destroy Russian Column in Neger Yurt
Mujahideen units under the leadership of Commander Adimir Avlayev ambushed on Friday a Russian column that was moving from Neger Yurt into Dagestan. The Mujahideen ambushed the enemy column near the town of Zandaq. Mujahideen sources confirm that three Russian BMP armoured vehicles were destroyed and that 30 Russian soldiers were killed in the attack.
Five Mujahideen were killed and several others wounded during the fighting. May Allah accept the killed as martyrs and may He hasten the recovery of the wounded.
Mujahideen Attack Russian Troops in and Around Grozny
Mujahideen units have stepped up their attacks north of the capital and have continued their guerilla strikes within the city.
On Saturday, Mujahideen units under the leadership of Field Commander Bakuyev Bahaudeen attacked a Russian column that consisted of three BTR armoured personnel carriers and two Ural trucks. The ambush took place near the ‘third settlement’ area, five kilometers north of Grozny. Mujahideen sources confirm that one BTR and both Ural trucks were destroyed in the attack. At least nine Russian soldiers were confirmed dead and several others were injured.
Later in the day, the Mujahideen used mortars to bombard Russian positions in the same area; no specific count of enemy casualties could be tallied, but Mujahideen sources confirm that significant damage was caused to the enemy location.
On Friday, commander Bakuyev conducted a separate ambush that led to the destruction of a T-80 tank and three BMP armoured fighting vehicles. At least 15 Russian soldiers were killed and several others were injured.
In Grozny, the Russian Government admitted that there were at least 15 separate explosions that shook the city. Mujahideen units stationed in the capital have plunged Russian forces stationed there into a state of constant fear; daily attacks are conducted against Russian positions, check points and convoys. The Mujahideen in the capital are also supported by regular strikes against Russian troops in the city that are executed by Mujahideen units located on the outskirts of Grozny.
Mujahideen Units Attack Russian Column Near Argun
By the Grace of Allah Most High, Mujahideen forces attacked on Saturday a Russian column near the town of Argun. The Mujahideen attacked the enemy force from three different sides; three Russian BMP armoured fighting vehicles were destroyed and at least nine enemy troops were killed in the attack. The Mujahideen suffered no casualties.
Mujahideen Launch Two Attacks in Urus Martan
Field Commander Ramadan Ahmadov personally confirmed to Qoqaz.net earlier today that his forces had launched two attacks against Russian troops in Urus Martan. The first attack targeted enemy troops near the Imam Shafii School for Quranic and Arabic Studies. One BTR was destroyed and two Russian troops were killed in the attack.
The second strike took place near the location of the first strike; Mujahideen units destroyed one armoured vehicle and killed four Russian soldiers.
Elsewhere in Chechnya, Mujahideen units destroyed a Russian truck near the town of Mesker Yurt. Five Russian Special Forces soldiers, including one officer, were killed in the attack.