I Read all the morons in the old thread bent on appeasing Shais. The fact is that Shai’s have nothing to do with Islam. Anybody familiar with their true believs knows they are NOT muslims. You can not take any Shia on his/her words because LIENG about their true believs is a form of WORSHIP according to Shia doctrine. Anybody who uses profinity for the prophet (PBU) and who cusses the companions of the prophet and who believe that the damn Khumanie or the rest of their imams are higher than the prophet and who believe their imams know the past (since creation of universe) and the future (to the end of Universe) and who uses voulagr langauge against the doughters of the prophet can NOT be Muslim. GET TO KNOW SHIAS before appeasing them. According to Abu Hanifa who ever have even lil a doubt about the Shias being non-muslims that person should be worried about his/her own Iman. its simple and CLEAR Shias are NOT muslims.
Some Facts about Shias and Qadianis
STATUS OF THE QURÃN
Islam
The Qurãn in its present form is authentic, complete and protected from any distortions
upto the day of Qiyaamat.
Qadianism
Verses pertaining to Jihaad have been abrogated by the Wahy revealed to Ghulam
Ahmad. He has in addition to the Qurãn, received Wahy, which is as important as the
Qurãn.
Shiísm
The Qurãn is incomplete and distorted. The original Qurãn had 17,000 verses. Hence 2/3
of the Qurãn is missing. The original Qurãn, compiled by Hadhrat Áli (Radhiallaahu Ánhu)
would be brought back by Imaam Mahdi.
FINALITY OF PROPHETHOOD
Islam
Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) was the final Nabi, through whom Islam
gained completion and through whom prophethood was sealed and Wahy (revelation)
ended.
Qadianism
The Prophet had been sent twice to the world. The first time he appeared in Makkah, in
the form of Muhammad and the second time in Qadian in the form of Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad.
Shiísm
The Imaam is a successor to the Nabi appointed by God. He is infallible and excels all
Prophets, besides Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) in dignity. They
possess the knowledge of the past and the future. They possess authority of death. They
are divinely protected against error.
THE KALIMA
Islam
There is no object of worship except Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
Qadianism
The same Kalimah as the Muslims, except that Muhammad in the Kalimah refers to Mirza
Ghulam Ahmad.
Shiísm
Same Kalimah with the following addition: 'Salvation is only attained by granting allegiance
to Ahlul Bayt (the immediate household of Nabi (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) and by
disowning their enemies i.e. Abu Bakr, Uthmaan and Úmar and all non-Shiás).
PILLARS OF ISLAM
Islam
Imaan, Salaat, Zakaat, Sawm and Hajj
Qadianism
Obedience to Allah, obedience to English government.
Shia
Salaat, Sawm, Hajj, Zakaat, Khums - 20% tax on profits, Jihaad, enjoining good,
preventing evil, Love for the godly ones and hatred for the evil ones i.e. the Sahaaba.
STATUS OF SAHAABA
Islam
The companions of Nabi (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) have been praised by Allah Taãla
Himself in the Noble Qurãn. It is therefore not permissible to criticise them or undermine
their integrity.
Qadianism
'The companions ate cheese from the Christians, although it was well known that it
contained pigs, fat'. Faatima (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) appeared to Ghulam Ahmad in a
revealed state.
Shiísm
All the companions became Kaafir except the immediate household of Nabi (Sallallaahu
Álayhi Wasallam) and three other Sahaaba after his demise. Áli (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) is
considered by some as a vicegerent, others regard him as a prophet, whilst another group
regard him as god.
GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI
CLAIMS IN CHRONOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES
1820: His first public appearance as a preacher and defender of Islam.
1880 - 1884: He wrote Baraahin-e-Ahmadiyya - four volumes
1890: He claimed 'I am the replica of Jesus.'
1892: 'Muhammad (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) was the final prophet. I do not lay claim
to prophethood. I am the son of Mary.'
1893: 'God speaks to me and gives guidance for reforms'
1894: 'Jesus was a liar and his grandmother was a whore.'
1899: 'I am a Nabi but in an indirect sense.' (Shadow of Nabi)
1900: August 7th - an Imaam in his Jumuáh Khutbah called him a Nabi and Rasool.
1902: He declared: 'I am superior to all prophets including Muhammad'. 'One who does
not believe in me is a Kaafir.' 'The Qurãn and my words are from Allah.'
1904: He declared 'I am god and Lord also Krishna'
1908: Mirza was struck by Cholera and slipped into a comma on May 25 and died in the
next day. He was buried at Qadiyaani.
SOME STRANGE SHIITE BELIEFS
The wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)
The Shiite's bear the same enmity and malice for the wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Álayhi
Wasallam), as they bear against the Sahaaba. They are frequently referred to as
hypocrites and infidels.
Kitmaan and Taqiyya (Holy Hypocrisy)
Among the fundamental teachings are kitmaan and taqiyya (to conceal one's real faith and
belief). Imaam Jaáfar Sadiq is purpoted to have said to Sulaymaan bin Khalid, 'O
Sulaymaan! You follow a religion that whoever will conceal, God will bestow honour on
him and whoever will reveal it and publicise it, he will be disgraced by God.' He further
states, 'Among ten parts of religion, nine lie in Taqiyya. He who does not observe taqiyya
is devoid of faith.'
MUT'A: Temporary marriage
A 'Hadith' attributed to Nabi (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) reads, 'Whosoever does
Mut'a once reaches the rank of Imaam Husian, whoever does it twice reaches the rank of
Imaam Hassan, whoever does it thrice reaches the rank of Hadhrat Áli and whoever does
it four times attains my rank.
Another purported 'Hadith' states, 'Anyone doing Mut'a with a believing woman is like
one who has made the journey to the Kaábah 70 times.'
Khomeini's view regarding prophethood, 'Every prophet came to establish justice on
earth. His aim was to establish justice but he was not successful. The same is the position
of the seal of prophets who came to reform human society and establish justice but he
failed during his lifetime.' (Ittihatwa-yakjihati).
He further states, 'It is a necessary principle of our faith that our Imaam have ranks that
exceed those of close angels and the appointed messengers.' (Al-Hukmatul Islaamiyyah).
May Allah Taãla protect our Imaan and save us from being part of the deviant groups,
Aameen.
Assalam O Alaikum
If any one believes in the above (shiasm believes), i will agree that he is a Kafir. But brother let me tell you one reality, most of them are Shia because their parents are one. And most of them i think do not believe in the above.
So let us discuss with them and try to make them understand, at least try.
Assalam O Alaikum
Cool Dude,
I sincerely doubt your mental capabilities as you obviously haven't met a person who has provided you the beliefs of shiism and what you have mentioned is nothing except the propaganda that has been inserted in the minds of muslims throughout the history. Do you even know about your own Imams?? Do you know that your Imam Abu Hanifa was a student (a mere student) of Jaffar Bin Mohammad??? Do you have any clue of Islamic history/traditions?? OR is it just that you wanna do the shia bashing to satisfy your inner urge coming from hatred??? How far do u think you can go with this mentality???
In Last,
Do you think you got the guts and power to nominate "Shias" as Kafirs??? Do you?? Put your action where your mouth is Go and get the Fatwa from one of your Learned Alim about declaring Shias as Kafirs.
Brother Abdullah,
Even when it has been said so many times in Quran to "study and find out", you obviously take fabricated stuff and believe that whatever someone said about someone's belief is true. By saying that whatever the other person mentioned about shias constitute "shiasm belief", you have really come out and express your alignment with fabricated stuff and dislikeness of logic and historical/Quranic/Hadiths that proves otherwise.
Assalam O Alaikum
Brother Imran
There were three sections in brother cooldude's message Islam, Qadianese and Shism. "Shiasm Believes" in my previous post meant the above mentioned shiasm believes and following that i clearly stated that most of shias do not have those believes.
I am sorry if i was not clear.
Assalam O Alaikum
Salaams Imranz jee,
You will probably end up Jannat, just for having the patience for keeping on responding/trying to explain this Shia vs. Sunni biz!!
God, haven't these people had enough of it already??!! What more??!!
Khoon kharaba between Muslim brothers over whose sect is superior??!!
Rubyia ji,
I am so tired of responding and tolerating these invalid fabricated name calling. I mean come on, don't we have enough of other worries than to label other muslims "Kafirs". Why can't we be more optimistic and constructive rather than issuing the fatwas on other muslims without searching the knowledge. I am not, by any means, against discussion, exploration of ideas and terminalogy referring to any aspect of Islam or any other religion for that purpose as that increase one's outlook/knowledge on that pretained subject, but to hurt or degrade other people by accusation of fabricated beliefs, idealogy is no way just or appropriate in discussions even Islam teaches good manners, patience, politeness but I guess a lot of ppl forget or disregard those notions.
Brother Abdullah,
All I ask of others is to avoid name calling and judgement without proper investigation and search of knowledge. Isn't that what Quran teaches as well, To explore and find out instead of believing on "Sunii Sunaeeyi Baatey""???
Those Who Recite The Kalimah Are Muslims. Those who call the reciters of Kalimah Kafirs are against Islam.
Stud
Bismihi Ta’ala
'Assalam o alaikum.
insha 'Allah all are well.
I would like to know what are the texts that go back to the beliefs as suggested by the poster “Cool Dude”?
Or, I may be so bold to presume that this was a cut and paste from a web site? I have seen a similar post at the Jamiat Web Site in South Africa. The least intellectual and academic decency requires that you attest to the contributor, for I am certain that “Cool Dude” never authored the post, let alone read a book about the Shia by the Shia scholars.
This reflects on the blind imitation of those who wish to be-little, insult and ridicule the faith of those who do not share the same belief system, at the expense of taking what ever their scholars write, an abiding and blind accpetance to their own ignorance, that still prevails to this day. If such is the lot of their scholar, then how can we blame their students and followers?
I suggest that you do some reading on the Shia faith, and if you feel that there is material objectionable to your dis-taste, then share it with us. Better go to their own books, rather than rely on pseudo or arm chair scholars.
Ahl al Bayt Page
http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/dilp
Iltimase duas (request for prayers)
Abbas, Ali
SHIAS ARE AWESOME!!
ALI HAIDER'S A SHIA THAT'S WHY THEY SO DAMN COOL.
QUAID-E-AZAM WAS A SHIA. DAMN RIGHT.
SHIAS HAVE BEEN UNITED FOR SO LONG, WHEREAS SUNNIS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER.
THE SELJUK TURKS, THE ABBASSIDS, THE UMMAYADS WERE ALL SUNNIS AND ALL THEY DID WAS FIGHT EACH OTHER FOR POWER AND TERRITORY. SHIASIM ALSO MAKES SENSE AND SUNNISM DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND IS CONFUSING. THAT'S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE CONVERT TO SHIAISM COS SUNNISM IS JUST AS CONFUSING AS HINDUISM.
FINNALY, SHIAS ARE ALSO MORE INTELLIGENT THAN SUNNIS.
THAT'S WHY SHIAS WERE THE FIRST PEOPLE TO PUT QURAN ON CD-ROM(IRANI PEOPLE).
RELIGION BROKE UP PAKISTAN. MORE RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS LIKE SIPAHE SUCKERS ARE GOING TO DESTROY IT. KEEP YOUR ISLAM TO YOURSELF. SHIAS IN INDIA GOT IT MADE COS HINDUS ARE SCARED OF THEM. ALL THE MUSLIMS PERSECUTED IN INDIA ARE SUNNIS NOT SHIA.
Calm down Coolio.
This is an absolutely senseless post and I am highly suspicious of the motives behind it. Even a fool who knows nothing about Islam can see the damage that is being done by pursuing this highly irrelevant line of thinking. Only enemies of Islam stand to gain. Cool Dude you should change your nick to Fool Dude. You might think you have good reason for your opinions but use you aqal and think whether we really need this right now?
Brother Xtreme,
you commented on this thread way too late :)... if you look on the dates of this thread, the last post was in december. Anyhow, I appreciate your sincerity and hopefully we can have few good broadminded muslims who would raise more fundamentalist issues rather than stooping to the same level as the author of this thread...
Imranz,
I never noticed the date. In fact I only noticed this topic because Fanatic brought it back up for some reason. Still it was a point worth making. Glad you feel the same way.
This topic was hotly contested before and most of the members, prominent on this Forum kept quiet when Abdulla & Asif very defiantly labelled Shias as 'Kafirs'.
Look - to keep quiet is essentially the same as condoning it. So, those extremists that stayed quiet were actually supporting it. The same can be said of any evils in Society - If you see a wrong and do nothing, you are in fact condoning or supporting it.
In the recent topic that ran in two threads:ONLY MUSLIM WILL GO TO PARADISE..; the same group of players cited a recent fatwa from a venerable Saudi mufti that essentially abrogates all other religions and declares them Kafirs. I called this fatwa - rascist and posed a question which to-date has remain unanswered.
I asked:
"If you can outlaw all other religions of this World, then what prevents you from doing the same to the other sects of Islam; and, where does it all end?"
I know it is not a palatable issue but participants on this Forum have repeatedly stated that:
"Only those that believe in the Quran & Sunnah are the real muslims!"
So, they were, in fact, calling Shias kuffar, weren't they? Shias believe in the Quran and the Ahl ul Bayt(Progeny of Prophet through Bibi Fatima,pbut).
What is the solution? Can there ever be a reconciliation?
Dear AM,
I can't speak for others, in this form, several times I have stated the foundations of my religious beliefs. Now, even after that if someone is going to label me "kafir" or "non-muslim", that's their opinion valid or not. In today's world, it is very hard even nearly impossible to change someone's point of view unless they are willing to listen. So make the story short, these threads and hate messages back and forth wouldn't serve any purposes unless we stick to mutual respect and civilized conversations.
Ad bulmalick,
You are showing your true colours. The beliefs that the Sunnis hold about certain Shia groups are mirrored by certain Shia groups. In fact Ayatollah Khomeini himself proclaimed that only 13 of the 30 or so Shia sects were valid.
There is no difference here. Shias also consider Sunnis Kafir (at least some of them do).
My point is that we do not need to argue over these issues as they are absolutely irrelevant to the problems faced by the muslim world today. Both Sunnis and Shias are suffering.
You are no better than Fool Dude. The reason you are stirring this is because you are an Islam hating atheist who considers Taslima Nasreen and Salman Rushdie as heroes. You won't find any support from either Sunnis or Shias for this.
Why don't you tell us what you think of Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie? Then we will see how much love you have for Shia muslims.
[This message has been edited by Mr Xtreme (edited June 29, 1999).]
Well guys I have written this before and writing again,please dont bring religion in discussion,because no body knows the religion good,leave it to the maulvi and maulana,just be good friends,I dont think if anyone is shia or sunni,the friendship will finish.
and it is those character like **CoolDud **who is creating problem between shia and sunni by putting all this nonsense,and ik doosra ka dil khrab karta hai,please if you dont have that knowledge about religion,dont bother to talk about it,just dont go cutting and pasting from other thread,use your knowledge dont cheat yourself.
dil..dilseeee
[This message has been edited by dilse (edited June 29, 1999).]
JUST DROPPING A LINE TO SAY HI TO STUD, STUD BAHI WELCOME BACK, SEEN YOU AFTER A LONG LONG TIME.. KIDHER CHALAY GAYE THAY aap.. SAB KHAIRIUT HAI NA.. ALHAMDOLLIAH YOU ARE BACK….... COOL DUDE BAHI, AADAAB JANAB.. PEHLAY YAY TO BTAIN YAY THREAD SHIAS KAY LEYA LIKHA HAI YA QADIANEYOON KAY LEYA.... JANAB JAHAN TUK MAI NAY QADIANEYOON KI KITABOON KA MUTALA KEYA HAI.. UN MAIN IN SAB CHEEZOON MAIN SAY KUCH BI NAHIN MILA….JUSTAJU HAI KAY KUCH MILAY TO MAIN BHI BHER CHER KAY HISSA LOON… SUNII SUNAEE BATOON MAIN YAQEEN NAHIN KERTEE.. KOI WAZAY DALEEL DAIN JO MAIN KHUD PERSAKOON.. SHUKERYA… JEWEL BHAIYA NAY KUCH AITIRAAZ KI WAZAHUT KI THEE….KAFI MAQOOL RANG RAKHTEE THEE UN KI POSTS....WELL LETS SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY FOR THIS… AND JEWELS PLEASE SEND ME THOSE ACROBAT FILE WHICH YOU PROMISED ONCE..SHUKERYA.
CHANDA
So, Abdulla & Asif - what's wrong, boys?
I suggest you two retract what you stated in previous threads about the Shia muslims and apologise!
P.S. Readers can read my post in this thread for explanation!
[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 30, 1999).]