I just came across this link -
This has been one of the most hotly debated topics in the Pakistani society and very question of including Shias in Pakistan and not leaving them in Secular India or Shia Iran…
Is cursing the companions a sin, and by doing so does an individual become kafir? (i want ahadith)
Is the killing of companions a sin, and by performing the act, does one become kafir? (i want ahadith)
if you had any knowledge of Indo Pakistan history you would know that Jinnah, Liaquat Ali Khan, and several others in the Pakistan freedom movement were devout shias. (Except for Jinnah of course, he drank alcohol and married a kaffir, and was extremely secular)
And btw if we are on the current topic...let's look at the beliefs of wahabi/sunni muslims:
- The Kalima (shahada) of Sipah e Sahaba and Lashkar e Jhangavi
"It is satisfying to say "Laa'Illaaha il-lal Laahu Ashraf Ali Rasool-ul-Laah" and "Al-Laahumma Salli 'Ala Saiyyidina Nabiyina Ashraf Ali" and there is no harm in saying so."
Deobandi Reference:
Risaalah Al lmaad, page 35) for the month of S. afar 1336 A.H.; and proceedings of a Munuazirah (religious debate) in Gaya, Al Furqaan, volume 3, page 85.
Deobandis believe that Ashraf Ali Thanvi was a prophet after Islam's Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp). Some members of the cult refrain from openly calling Thanvi a prophet but believe that he holds a stature equal to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp)
The Deobandi belief regarding Thanavi's prophethood and their attempts to hide their belief becomes more clear after reading the following:
"To the common people, the expression "Khaatim-un-Nabiy-yeen" means the "last Prophet". To the knowing people this is not a correct view. Even if a Prophet was to be born after the holy Prophet (saww) it would still have no effect on the concept of the finality of Muhammad (saww)"
Deobandi Reference:
Tahzeerun-Naas, Pages 3 and 25
Now when Deobandis believe Thanvi to be their prophet, it does not effect the Islamic belief that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp) is the last prophet of God. As far as the Shias and Sunnis are concerned, they simply can not understand the depths of the Deobandi faith, are declared infidels and killing them becomes a duty of every Deobandi!!!
- Allah can tell lies
Deobandi mullah Rashid Ahmad Gangohi decalres in a fatwa; that "Allah can tell a lie".
Deobandi Reference:
"Fataawa Rasheediyah" Vol 1, page 19
- Allah can forget
Deobandi mullah, Shah Ismail Shaheed, decalres that "one cannot rule out the possibility that Allah (swt) can forget"
Deobandi Reference:
"Yak Rowza" (Farsi), by Shah Ismail Shaheed page 217
- Allah's knowledge according to Sipah e Sahaba and Lashkar e Jhangavi
"Allah does not know beforehand what His creations would do. Allah comes to know of their doings only after they have done something."
Deobandi Reference:
Tafseer Bulghatul Hairaan pages 157 and 158
- Satan has more knowledge than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp)
"Shaitaan (Satan) and the Angel of death are more knowledgeable than the holy Prophet (saww) is.
Deobandi Reference:
Baraaheen-e-Qaati'ah, pages 51 and 52
"The Prophet of Allah was not aware of his ultimate fate and of things beyond a wall."
Deobandi Reference:
Barraheen-e-Qaati 'ah, page 51
- Prophet Muhammad is equal to animals and lunatics in knowledge of the unseen
"The kind of knowledge and the amount of knowledge of the unseen given by Almighty Allah to the holy Prophet (saww) has also been given to animals, lunatics and children."
Deobandi Reference:
Hifzul leemnan, page 7
- Thinking of Prophet Muhammad during prayers is worse than thinking of an ox or a donkey
"Even the thought of the holy Prophet (saww) occurring during Namaaz is much worse than to be immersed in the thought of an ox or a donkey."
Deobandi Reference:
Siraat-e-Mustaqeem, page 86
But the thought of Thanvi or any other Deobandi Mullah coming during Namaaz is justified!!!
- "Rehmatul Lil Aalameen" is not an exclusive attribute of Prophet Muhammad
"The appellation Rahmatul Lil 'Aalameen (mercy for all the worlds) is not an exclusive attribute of the holy Prophet (saww). Other saintly persons also can be called Rahmatul Lil 'Aalameen."
Deobandi Reference:
Fataawa Rasheediyah vol. 2. Page 12
- Deobandi mullahs taught Urdu language to Prophet Muhammad
"The holy Prophet (saww) learnt the Urdu language from the 'Ulema of Deoband."
Deobandi Reference:
Baraaheen-e-Qaati'ah, page 26
- Prophet Muhammad, an elder brother of Deobandis
"The Prophet (saww) should be respected as an elder brother."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 58
But to pay exaggerated and undue respects to the 'Ulema of Deoband is justified!!!
"It is right to call the Prophet as your brother."
Deobandi Reference:
Baraaheen-e-Qaati'ah, page 3
Even if believing so is against the Qur'aan
- Millions like Prophet Muhammad can be created, he is not unique
"If Allah so wills He can create millions upon millions of the likes of Muhammad (saww)."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 161
But it is not possible to find peers of the mullahs of Deoband.
- Prophet Muhammad mingled with dust
"After his death, the holy Prophet (saww) has mingled with dust."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul Ieemaan, page 59
But the power of the mullahs of Deoband to benefit people ever after they are dead continues.
- Messengers of Allah are worthless
"All Prophets and Messengers are worthless."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 29
Only the Deobandi prophet Ashraf Ali Thanvi is important as his name carries the title MULLAH and that too of Daral Uloom Deoband!!!
- Praising the Prophets of Allah
"A Prophet should be praised only as a human being and even less."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 35
But the Deobandi sons of Hinda should be praised as much as possible.
- Prophets can not be free and innocent of every lie
"It is not necessary for a Prophet to be free from, and innocent of, every lie."
Deobandi Reference:
Tasfiyatul 'Aqaa'id, page 25
But nothing but truth comes out of the mouths of the Deobandi sons of Hinda, especially their prophet Ashraf Ali Thanvi, Sipah e Sahaba and Lashkar e Jhangavi
- All creations including Prophets are ignorant
"The bigger ones, that is the Prophets, and the lesser ones, that is the rest of the creations, all are without knowledge and are ignorant."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul Ieemaan, page 3
But the prophet of Deobandis, Ashraf Ai Thanvi and Mullahs like Azam Tariq etc. have enough knowledge to declare Muslims as Kaafirs and even kill them.
- A Prophet of Allah can be referred to as Satan
"It is permitted to call a Prophet as a Taaghoot (Satan)"
Deobandi Reference:
Tafseer Bulghatul Hairaan, page 431
But it is kufr (infidelity) to belittle the father of all Wahabis, Muaweyah bin Hinda, who murdered Lady Ayesha, wife of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp)
- The Deobandi hatred towards the names Muhammad and Ali
"Whosoever is named Muhammad or Ali has no authority over anything. A Prophet or a friend of Allah can do nothing."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 41
But the Deobandi sons of Hinda hold sway over the entire world. In their intense hatred for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp) and Imam Ali (AS) the Deobandis forget the complete name of their false prophet Mullah Ashraf Ali Thanvi.
- Prophet Muhammad lost his wits
"The holy Prophet (saww) had lost his wits."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan, page 55
- Deeds of a follower excel those of the Prophet
"A follower apparently excels his Prophet in deeds."
Deobandi Reference:
Tahzeerun-Naas, page 5
No wonder Sipah e Sahaba and Lashkar e Jhangavi recite "Laa'Illaaha il-lal Laahu Ashraf Ali Rasool Allah"
- A Deobandi mullah saved Prophet Muhammad from falling into hell
"A Deobandi Mullah saved the holy Prophet (saww) from falling off Pul-e-Siraat (the bridge over which the righteous will pass into Paradise and the evil will fall into hell)."
Deobandi Reference:
Bulghatul Hairaan, page 8
- Celebrating the birthday of Prophet Muhammad is like celebrating the birthday of a Hindu God.
"Celebrating Meelaad-un-Nabee, (saww) (birthday of the Prophet) is like the Hindus celebrating the birthday of their Kanaihya."
Deobandi References:
Fataawa Meelaad Shareef, page 8;
and Baraaheen-e-Qaati 'ah, page 148
But it is true Islaam to celebrate days of the Deobandi sons of Hinda
and their Daarul Uloom.
- Dajjal has the same characteristics as Prophet Muhammad
"The holy Prophet (saww) and the Dajjaal both are blessed with life. The traits which characterise the holy Prophet (saww) are shared by the. Dajjaal also."
Deobandi Reference:
Aabe Hayat, page l 69
- Wishes of Prophet Muhammad have no importance
"The Holy Prophet's (saww) wish for something to happen is of no importance."
Deobandi Reference:
Aabe Hayat, page 169
But much happens at the wishes of the Deobandi sons of Hinda.
- The status of all prophets and friends of Allah
"Before Allaah, all Prophets and all friends of Allah are insignificant specks of dust."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul Ieemaan, page 54
But as far as Mullah Ashraf Ali Thanvi is concerned, it is permissible for Deobandis to say "Laa'Illaaha il-lal Laahu Ashraf Ali Rasool Allah"
continued....
26. Believing that Prophets and Saints can intercede with Allah is apostasy
"Any Muslim who regards the Prophet or the friends of Allah to be Allah's creations and bondsmen and yet makes them his advocates and intercessors, calls on them for help, and gives nazr and niyaaz equals Abu Jahl in apostasy."
Deobandi Reference:
Taqwiyatul leemaan pages 7 and 27
It might be that the Quran given to Deobandis by their prophet Mullah Ashraf Ali Thanvi does not have the following verses;
"They shall have no authority to intercede except for those who have made a covenant with Allah the Beneficent." Qur’an 19:87
"Ye who believe! Fear God and seek WASILA (the means of approach) unto him." (Al-Quran. 5- 35)
- The Deobandi hatred for Durood Taaj
"Durood Taaj is disfavored and. reciting it is not permitted."
Deobandi References:
Fazaa'il-i-Durood Shareef, page. 73 and
Tazkiratur Rasheed vol. 2, page 117
But to compose and recite. elegies (marsiyah) on the mullahs of Deoband crediting them with much more excellences than those described in the Durood Taaj for the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) is quite right.
- A Deobandi mullah was given a bath by Imam Ali (AS)
"A saintly person of the Deobandi faction had been given a bath by Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Fatimah (RA) had put on clothes on his (naked) body."
Deobandi Reference:
Siraat-i-Mustaqeem, Persian, page 164; Urdu, page 280
This coming from the people who believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp) is mingled with dust and that whosoever is named Ali has no authority. I guess if something adds to the stature of Deobandis, it automatically becomes permissible and as far as others are concerned, the others can not understand the deep MANTAQ of Daral Uloom Deoband.
- Meelad, Mairaj, Giyaarhneev, Urs, Khatam, Soyem, Chehlum and reciting Fatiha are ways of the Hindus
"Meelaad Shareef Mi'raaj Shareef, Giyaarhveen Shareef 'Urs Shareef; Khatm Shareef; Soyem, Chehlum, Faatihah Khawani, and leesaal-e-Sawaab, all are unlawful and bad innovations and the ways of the infidel Hindus."
Deobandi References:
Fataawa Ashrafyah, volume 2, Page 58;
Fataawa Rasheediyah, volume 2, pages 144 and 150; and volume 3, pages 93 and 941
- Deobandis believe that Quran has been changed
Deobandi mullah Syed Anwar Shah Kashmiri states in his book Fayz ul Bari that:
“It is my analysis based on Sahih al Bukhari that the Qur’an has tahreef with regards to words and this was accredited to Hadhrath Uthman’s party as an unintentional or intentional mistake."
Deobandi Reference:
“Fayz ul Bari” page 395 Volume 3 under the Chapter “As Shah’adhat
No wonder the Sipah e Sahaba and the Lashkar e Jhangavi believe in a different prophet i.e. Mullah Ashraf Ali Thanvi as well as all the above mentioned beliefs.
One thing which is quite interesting is that Shias are accused of having a different Quran or changing the Quran which allows the Deobandis/Wahabis to kill as many Shias as they like. Books of Shias and Sunnis do have some weak narrations that suggest the Quran is incomplete but no Muslims (Shia or Sunni) believes in the validity of such narrations. Next time you hear a Wahabi dog barking, accusing Shias or Sunnis of Tehreef e Quran, do mention Mullah Kashmiri's Fatwa to enlighten him.
these wahabis don’t even trust their own books and they try to point refences from different books… If quran quotes this ayat any hadith’s that contradicts to it are dhaef… period… sunnis claim nauzubillah shia quran is incomplete even though there is nothing like shia quran or sunni quran… we all follow the same quran…how many versions of quran do you find in the market. its just another propoganda.
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
Lets see what nauzubillah sunni’s believes on quran
go and read what the site
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter8/3.html
has to say about sunni believes about quran… your sunni mullahs need to straighten their believes before accusing others…
On the light of the ayat of quran i quoted earlier…I am sure like me all shias beleive quran is complete because it doesnt reflect the teachiings of quran and ahleybait…
if you want to read a good book on shias read
Don bro..dont waste ur time
Bro Mulz, Don, Salman if you agree I can provide you swords and please go out in some desert and fight out on who is right.
I don't know from where Salman got these info, but its guaranteed lie fabrication as some Sunnis fabricate lies against Shias. There is no "prophet" after Prophet Mohammed PBUH. If anyone believes in a prophet after him then he can call himself whatever he wants but surely does not reflect "Deobandi" school of thoughts.
I have a question for the respected shia guppies here, do they believe that the references given in mulz's link are true or not? If not, is there even a single point that they think is correct in that reference?
Just a question, again please I am not implying whether shiates are kafir or not, just asking a question.
Dont have time to go and verify those referneces nor have the books… but if something is in the book doesnt mean one has to believe it… Its not like quran… nor I regard usool -e- kaafi or other books next to quran unlike what i have heard from some sunni friends… to whom sahih Bukhari is next to quran and I am sure if you read the website i posted earlier:
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter8/3.html
you’ll find how some qoutes doubts the authenticity of quran
rather than surfing through those books go and read
http://al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm
if you are interested in learning about Islam and shias.
do u think any sunni wud regard the shiaa site that u post links from as a "reasonable site with accurate information"????
Your saying you don’t have to believe what the books say because they not like the quran, yet right after it your posting links to ‘books’ that are not the quran:confused:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
do u think any sunni wud regard the shiaa site that u post links from as a "reasonable site with accurate information"????
[/QUOTE]
and sunnis want us to regard things they posted from some anti shia propoganda sites.......
the website i quoted also provide refences from sunni books... one of them is Sahih Bukhari which a few of my sunni friends claim to regard most after the quran you are open to go and read the references if you have the book or ignore it...
Rally sahab only if you bothered to read with an open eye to my posts in this forum and the forums earlier… I made a point in the light of Quran its testifies Islam is perfect and complete and if something contradicts the teachings of quran and ahleybait its not acceptable… because they arent that authentic as quran. and about the book i quoted earlier I doubt if you will find a single thing that contradicts quran, or have contradicting believes unlike sunni books.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Salman: *
if you had any knowledge of Indo Pakistan history you would know that Jinnah,
"I
[/QUOTE]
I was just asking a question which this web-site pointed out.. the feelings I wrote weren't mine btw.. we are all aware whats going in PAkistan.. and I don't think India is so active and deep in Pak to bomb all the mosques.. just an introspection.. I am a sunni Punjabi myself.. but my dadajaan respects 'em all.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mulz: *
I am a sunni Punjabi myself.. but my dadajaan respects 'em all.
[/QUOTE]
and you don't..................????
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *
and you don't..................????
[/QUOTE]
Nahin yaar.. me too.. I love Shias as much as I do Sunni or any other community.. As a Pakistani, I am also disturbed to see these killings.. but many of us are very biased.. we have to improve ourselves and do other things than finding faults with each other.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mulz: *
but many of us are very biased.. we have to improve ourselves and do other things than finding faults with each other.
[/QUOTE]
wish you could imply your own works in your own life and not started this thread to start with.
Infact those extermist sunni mullahs need to realize it too... Islam never promoted terrorist, its the Akhlaq of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. that inspried people.... this lady used to throw stones at Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and one day she didnt so propeht Mohamamd P.B.U.H. inquried and found out she was sick and he went to ayadat for that lady and she liked it so much that she accepted Islam...those are the true teachings of Islam. no where did it promote terrorism as some sunni mullahs do these days, Allah is the judge of us all in the day of judgement. Let him be the judge rather then declaring others kafir and killing them... doesnt reflect the teachings of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U .H. atleast.
Sick of this kafir debate. Leave that to Allah guys. And second what would you achieve by swearing at companions? or what will you gain by calling shia kafir?
This whole issue is so exhausted, whats the point of starting a new thread with same trite issue?
Don’t write in this thread you will gain nothing by hurting each other.
And this is my last post so tata
Quran 22:68-69
*And if they contend with you, say: Allah best knows what you do.
"Allah will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ." *
do we need to really argue on who is kafir????