Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

True!

We supported Taliban, who were fighting the other ethnicities in Afghanistan. At that time, atleast the taliban had a favourable view of Pakistan. While the rest of the people disliked pakistan, because we were helping those fighting against them. But now, when pakistan ditched the taliban, even they have started hating us. So we don't have many allies left in Afghanistan. I think the feeling they have for us is very natural.

I won't have a favourable view of someone who helped my enemy. (this goes for the Northern Alliance of the anti-taliban)
and i won't have a favourable view of someone who ditched me and helped others catch me and kill me. (this goes for the taliban)

Do you disagree with this logic?

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

*You are right on this one and I totally agree. *

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Yes, Pakistan might be doing everything to help Afghnaistan rebuild NOW. And I never said Pakistan was solely responsible for all the problems of Afghanistan. Ofcourse, every nation is responsible for its own fate. And so is Afghanistan.

What i want to say is Pakistan did play a role in Afghanistan. It sided with some Afghans (taliban) and helped them kill other Afghans (the tajiks, hazaras etc). Later it even ditched the same afghans (taliban) it was helping and helped some other nation (the americans) catch them (the taliban) and kill them. How do you justify this behaviour? and wasn't helping taliban meddling in the affairs of Afghanistan. Lets be realistic! If we stick to saying this that Pakistan is a heavenly country with angel-like leaders, we will never be able to change the fate of this country. Lets criticise our own policies and make them better. Thats the only way we can improve. Chauvinistic partriotism will lead us to our own destruction.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Shadan, you're not getting your events correct.

[quote]

We supported Taliban, who were fighting the other ethnicities in Afghanistan. At that time, atleast the taliban had a favourable view of Pakistan. While the rest of the people disliked pakistan, because we were helping those fighting against them.

[/quote]

Pakistan supported the Taliban, but here is the important part, every single factional group in Afghanistan was killing everyone else in Afghanistan, prior to the support Pakistan gave the Taliban. If the Taliban could conquer the whole of Afghanistan, they could bring peace. That was the objective.

Here's a list of the events before the support, since I wrote it anyway.

If you remember, when the Soviets left Afghanistan, the factions started fighting each other. Everyone was being killed, much like when the Soviets were there, not much difference except now Afghanis were killing Afghanis. What then happened was that the Taliban popped up in Kandahar when they were doing Robin Hood deeds of rescuing people and bring order. Pakistan saw this, and needed safe passage for its convoys into central asia. It wanted to expand this movement to safeguard a trade route through to central asia. The Afghani traffic mafia also supported the Taliban, and even as he's admitted, Karzai helped the Taliban in the beginning. They did eventually bring peace to a large extent of the country, but they became brainwashed by the Arabs that had entered into their ranks after they'd been expelled from their own countries. Pakistan was already beginning to desert the Taliban by around 2000. So while the Taliban were a mistake, if Pakistan had not have supported them, Ahmad Massoud would have continued his killing spree and carried on destroying Kabul anyway.

[quote]

But now, when pakistan ditched the taliban, even they have started hating us. So we don't have many allies left in Afghanistan. I think the feeling they have for us is very natural.

[/quote]

Not true. The Taliban are not all the Pashtuns of Afghanistan. I think that though the Taliban doesnt like Pakistan, the Pashtuns in Afghanistan not part of the Taliban (which is the majority most likely, since there's 15 million of them) don't mind Pakistan.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

I can never understand people who say this. What choice did Pakistan have? Carry on supporting the Taliban and get bombed by the USA, which would set it back to the Stone Age. There is no infrastructure in Afghanistan, so bombing it won't make much difference, but Pakistan has spent decades building its infrastructure. It has a lot more to lose from a US campaign against it.

You also quote "and wasnt the Taliban meddling in the affairs of Afghanistan". Let me remind you, the Taliban WERE Afghanis, not Pakistani. You've made so many errors in that piece, I can't correct it all. Example, there were Uzbeks and Tajiks in the Taliban, just not the majority.

You've also said "Later it even ditched the same afghans (taliban)". Everyone was ditching the Taliban at that time! Say you have a friend, then one day he goes and associates with some fugitive. Police find you, then threaten you somehow, and you confess to save something that's important. Who's the victim here, you, your friend or the fugitive? I would say you are. And guess what, the you in this case is the same as Pakistan. You probably cant see the logic in this, but whatever, it's always semi educated people that say these sorts of things.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

The fact that they were fighting and killing each other didn't have anything to do with Pakistan.

If i have a fight with my brother over some issue. And my brother slaps me. Thats ok. But during our fight, if you enter in my house and start taking sides, i will always consider you my enemy.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

I never said that. I said ".....and wasn't HELPING taliban, (like) meddling in the affairs of Afghanistan"

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Right, so Pakistan should just let Afghanistan become unstable and let druggies venture onto its doorstep. No thanks. Your analogy isnt correct. It's more like, I'm your next door neighbour, you start fighting with your brother, and keep me up all night so I cant go to work the next day. I come round your house with some of your family members and they go in and sort you two out.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

whatever, I quoted you directly.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

anything to leep the damn dirty drug and arms dealers and their products out of Pakistan.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

[quote=“Shadan”]

When Afghanistan is trying to cause trouble in Pakistan, when they are trying to cause some kind of Pashtun nationalist uprising against Pakistan, that is enough for Pakistan to be concerned… Pakistan has every right to defend it intrests. If Afghanistan want Pakistan to stop interfering in its bussiness, perhaps they should change their policy towards us.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Afghans seem to love India, even though India had helped the N alliance.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

[quote=“Shadan”]

Pakistan has been trying to have a friendly govt in Afghanistan and that usually means a Pashtun govt. This is because that would appease local Pakistani Pashtuns and keep the anti Pakistani N Alliance from taking over.
The reason Pakistan needs a friendly govt is because a friendly govt wouldnt try to cause trouble on Pakistans Western borders…
You should know that it was Afghanistan that started hostilities between the two countries. They never accpeted the Durrand line and have been doing their utmost to foment trouble for Pak. Review the history of relation between Afghanistan and Pakistan prior to the Soviet invasion and you will realize how hostile Afghanistan has ALWAYS been towards Pakistan.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

This is such weak reasoning. You can't win anything with this. This is the way Pakistan has been reasoning all these years. And look at us where we stand. Come on! come out of your little wells. Start thinking rationally. Don't take everything Anti-Pakistan or Pro-Pakistan. Start seeing things like Rational and Irrational.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Its FACT.. Prior to Soviet invasion, Afghanistan had a govt that had control over the country, but they used this to destabalize Pakistan…
But Pakistan was not involved in Afghanistan the way it is now.
With the Soviet invasion, Pakistan got involved and has been involved for one reason or another for the past twenty years, to stabalize Afghanistan with a govt in Pakistans favor. The Pakistani govt is fearful of nationalist movements in NWFP, that is why it always supports relgious groups there because religous groups are not nationalist.
Pakistan govt may or may not be overreacting, but consdering the circumstances, an Afghanistan thats hostile to Pakistan is extremely dangerous..
Everyone knows for example, that Afghanistan has always had close relations with India.. Do you really think Pakistan is going to allow itself to be pinned between two enemies on both borders?
Your love for Afghanstan blinds you to what wrongs they have done. Pakistan has done whats in its own national intrests, same as Afghanistan has always done. Pakistan is no saint, but we shouldnt have to bare the entire blame for Afghanistans problems… I can guarantee you that if it were anyother country in our place, they would have done the same thing…
You can be pro anything ou want, but dont infantalize the Afghanis, they are just as guilty as Pakistan… If they want to hate us then fine, but they should know how hostile their govt has always been towards Pakistan even at its birth.
Best thing for Afghanistan now is to learn to live in peace, rebuild its country and leave Pakistan alone, and im sure Pakistan will do the same… Hopefuly this Taliban problem will end soon.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

No Pashtun and Afghan are not the same thing anymore.

Too many of us live in the past, yes before the states of Afghanistan and Pakistan were created the term Afghan was synonomous to Pashtun but not anymore, today anyone from Afghanistan including non-Pashtuns such as Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks are also Afghan.

The Afghanistan of today is not a Pashtun country, it is a Persian (Dari) country and sadly Pashto is considered second class, unrefined and uneducated over there.

As much as I respect Khoshhaal Khan Khattak his words are not divine or timeless, they might have applied in his time but they don't today, it would be silly to live by ancient poetry ignoring ground realities and seperating my head from my body for saying this (put your sabres away, good boys).. However Pashtun heritage/history which to this day is still incorrectly labelled "Afghan" doesn't belong to all Afghans but only to the Afghan Pashtuns and their Paki Pashtun co-ethnicmen across the border.

In the historical context Afghan is the same as Pashtun but today it is not, only if Afghanistan was to rename itself Khorasan or give sole official/national status to Pashto and none to Persian (Dari) would the term "Afghan" become synonomous to Pashtun again.

There are more Pashtuns in Pakistan than Afghanistan today, I've only ever met Afghan Tajiks so that's left a bad taste in my mouth for Afghans, I've never met a Pashtun from Afghanistan so I don't know their accents or what they're like but Farhad Darya is good when he sings in Pashto so maybe Pashtuns in Afghanistan should merge with Pakistan if they're so concerned about Pahtuns being sperated by the Durrand line and they should **** the Persians off.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

I sent you a PM with my response.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

I guess u've deleted your post.
I agree with almost everything u wrote there.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

Yeh, I’ve been talking to quite a few Afghans and pushtons recently so thats where I got my info from. I was infact surprised at some of the stuff.

I deleted it and PM’ed it instead cause I dont want to start a back and forth thing on here due to what was written.

Re: Are Pathans considered Afghanis?

It's the internet. Anyone can claim to be anyone.. duhh.