Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Lifestyle Parenting, Household Affairs and Cuisine corner
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Damn. This is really depressing.

What’s the matter with kids today and why doesn’t anyone want them around? In June, Malaysia Airlines banned babies from many of their first class cabins, prompting other major airlines to consider similar policies.

Lately, complaints about screaming kids are being taken seriously, not only by airlines, but by hotels, movie theaters, restaurants, and even grocery stores.
Read more about restaurants around the country banning kids.
Earlier this month, McDain’s, a Pittsburgh area restaurant that banned kids under 6 became a mascot for the no-kids-zone movement.

According to a Pittsburgh local news poll, more than half of area residents

were in favor of the ban. And now big business is paying attention.

“Brat bans could well be the next frontier in destination and leisure-product marketing,” writes Robert Klara in an article on the child-free trend in AdWeek.

Klara points to Leavethembehind.com, a travel website for kid-free vacations, with a massive list of yoga retreats, luxury resorts and bargain hotels around the world that ban children.

“Call me a grinch, a misanthrope, a DINK (dual-income-no-kids), or the anti-cute-police, but I hate (hate a thousand times over) ill-behaved children/infants/screaming banshees in upscale restaurants (ok, anywhere, really, but I don’t want any death threats),” writes Charlotte Savino on Travel and Leisure’s blog. She lists a slew of a popular destination restaurants with kid-free areas and policies for travelers looking for quiet vacation dining.

Traveling is one thing, but what about in kids’ own hometowns? Should kids been banned from local movie theaters, like they were at a recent adults-only Harry Potter screening? In Texas, one cinema chain has evenflipped the model, banning kids under six altogether, except on specified “baby days”.

Even running errands with toddlers may be changing. This summer Whole Foods stores in Missouri are offering child-free shopping hours (kids are allowed inside but childcare service is available for parents who want to shop kid-free.) Meanwhile in Florida, a controversy brews over whether kids can be banned from acondominium’s outdoor area. That’s right, some people don’t even want kids outdoors.

When did kids become the equivalent of second-hand smoke? Blame a wave of childless adults with money to spare. “Empty nesters continue to wield a huge swath of discretionary spending dollars, and population dips in first-world countries mean more childless couples than ever,” writes AdWeek’s Klara.

Catering to the child-free community may be good for business but is it good for parents? It could help narrow choices and make kid-friendly environments even kid-friendlier. And let’s be honest, babies won’t miss flying first class. They won’t even remember it. But their moms and dads will.

Most parents with young children have self-imposed limits on spending and leisure. This new movement imposes limits set by the public. And the public isn’t as child-friendly as it used to be. As businesses respond to their new breed of ‘first-class’ clientele, are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

During my 8 years of living in different parts of Britain I know that people have become so intolerant to children as well as the elderly. Why is this happening? Is it the technology driven lifestyle getting faster and faster each day? Or the kids have become somewhat more annoying?

I remember I had to go to a mosque to attend this lecture and after 1 hour the kids got tired and just wanted to play, I was told to take them out, but I was thinking if they're not being given a chance to sit among adults then how they're going to emulate and learn from them?

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Parenting idealogy has changed from the time say, we were kids. Now even babies are being given so much power over their parents that they arw growing up to be fiercely independsnt to the point of being rebellious…

And parents dont really feel they have a say cuz its all this new info and studies that are being shoved down their throats…if u want to raise a confident, sophisticated, smart etc child…do this yhis this and this… Parents are ultra confused nowadays …even common sense isnt working anymore and referring to parenting sites and books is at an all time high.

So now u have not so great parenting, over confident and oozing with “ME” out of control toddlers and kids…thats SO not a good combo…

I got a kid… He has never had a tantrum in public… We know what he is like… If we see a bad moment coming up, we leave. Now if all parents would do that… These measures wouldnt have to be taken. If all parents would do their bit, it wouldnt be so bad.

Its highly annoying and irritating trying to eat a meal that u have taken time out to enjoy and paid for too… With a kid at the next table making u wish u were deaf or had the power to slap them and their idiotic parents silly!

Recently a friend refused to do anything bout her wailing child at a coffee bar… Cept talk to him and try to calm him down… The dog at the next table knew nothing could calm this kid down but the friend insisted that her son just needed to let off some steam and should be allowed to do so… Fine… Let him let off some steam in the washroom or outside the bar… Does everyone have to be a part of the torture? But this is how most parents are dealing with their kids nowadays… Oh let the child express itself…oh let it be… dont stifle it…etc etc etc

:rolleyes:

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

I also think parents these days are determined to not let their lifestyle change too much after children, and that often results in them bringing their kids along in places that just aren't appropriate.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Thats very true sahar!!! Its like the self sacrificing gene that was so common in our parents generation, is missing from ours. Either find a babysitter or stay home....

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

^ Yeah I think the thing is more and more of us have single friends who we want to still hang out with. And so we try to do things with them and try not to sacrifice the family stuff. So what happens is we do leave kids at home OR we drag them along to places that aren't kid-friendly. Whereas I think in my parents' generation they were socializing with people who were married with growing families too, and the socializing was kid-friendly. So the parents got a chance to socialize and hang out with other adults, and the kids got trained in socializing but could still be kids. Nowadays some kids are either not taken along and don't learn how to handle situations OR they are taken to places where they are constantly being told "no" "stop" "sit still" and those restrictions aren't good for them either, if that's all they are getting.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

There is also a general lack of tolerance to anything and anyone now.We all have become rigid in some way to what we want or who we like and want everything our way.A factor which causes more relationships to fail these days and more places where kids are not welcome.That being said,I will add that sometimes when kids are being kids it is the parents' job to either take them away or remove them from the scene,like a restaurant or coffee shop etc so that others can be spared the tantrums and all that.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Good for them!

Why are parents taking their babies to movies? Why take them anywhere that doesn't have a playplace? If you really don't "want to change your lifestyle" then get a babysitter or don't have kids.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

^ pouttt.. but but but babies are soo much fun.. I will take my baby everywhere!!!

ps: I understand your point!!

I have to agree with Khawa.. word by word.. its the "letting them be themselves" that probably backfires sooner or later.. there should be a fine balance between parenting and dictating your child's life!

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Whenever I take my 19 month old out like to the shopping centre or pizza hut she screams the place down... I try and calm her with all sorts of things and I feel for the people around me but I think that it's because she's not use to it and maybe I should take her out more or not take her out at all... What do you think?

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

^ and that's the other thing, which is also a point hareem made, if we don't expose our kids to normal, social life outside the house then how will they know how to deal with people and be normal, social kids? granted, some kids do get stressed out in situations where there are too many people/too much noise, but then you limit their exposure in those cases instead of eliminating it entirely.

and yes, sometimes kids do have meltdowns but so what- they aren't as capable of dealing with life as we are. learning how to be capable is called growing up. we've all been there- some of us are still there- its not necessary to have a **** fit just because one meal is interrupted.

if you decide not to have kids, that's your choice, but to tell those who do have kids that they're unwelcome in restaurants, on planes, etc. is ridiculous. if the situation was reversed, you can bet it would be a bigger deal.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

but then where is appropriate? because i think that eating out is something everyone should be allowed to do, and a busy parent even more than most because i can just imagine them wanting to get out of the house for a change and see something else and do something else. i don't think these people in question are bringing their children to 5-star restaurants at night or nightclubs or bars... they're probably just going out for lunch and brunch etc. which are pretty family friendly activities. i mean, as a parent, let me tell you, if my world shrunk down to yo gabba gabba and mcdonalds with a playplace, i *will *lose my mind.

and maybe this is a controversial thought and clearly an unpopular opinion here, but if my kid has a crying fit while i'm eating, sure i'll do what i can to calm him down, but i ain't walking out, that's for sure. i've paid for my meal too and taken time out to come and eat it too and my time is far more precious when it comes to scheduling things between naptimes and feedings than the average childless person who can comparatively speaking just up and go anywhere. i have very little sympathy for people who don't want me and my baby around because it will inconvenience their ear drums for an hour out of their precious life. if you don't like it, maybe you should get up and leave and take a walk around the block to calm down like you expect me to do with my baby.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

because we're still the same people, we just have tiny humans to look after now. being a parent shouldn't mean you stop doing the things you love entirely. yes, within reason you must make changes that work for you and your baby-- i highly doubt the husband and i will ever have a date night with the kid accompanying us, but if we're out during the day, then everywhere is fair game as far as i'm concerned and if the kid has a meltdown, well, it happens. how about other people try to be tolerant and accepting for a change instead of expecting me to the tolerant one all the time? as for restos with play places... i'm not brain dead, i just gave birth. those places were and always will be annoying for me and i resent the suggestion that just because i now have a kid, i can only hang out in chuck-e-cheese shudder or mcdonalds. my taste buds haven't died, sara, have some pity! i refuse to eat a filet o' fish in the precious time i get to go out of the house and be normal instead of staying in with a newborn in hermit mode. you can't make me :p

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

and if i've said the same thing three different ways, i apologise. i've had 2 hours of sleep and i'm a bit rant-y at the moment.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

On a side note,have any of you parents with young kids ever experienced anything like that where you had to be told to leave a place or sth like that...??
I have a 16 mth old and so far I have not experienced any public tantrums or meltdowns (and I hope never to experience them either fingers crossed)
I was talking to a friend who told me that she had to leave the story time at the library with her 5 year old and 2 year old because the youngest one was fussing and people started to roll their eyes.Although it was subtle and not a direct indication for her to leave but she left the library.

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I've never been told to leave or even gotten rude looks from people, even when madam has a meltdown.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

I simply have no respect or sympathy for parents who think its perfectly fine for their baby to scream the whole place down, while they sit there doing nothing and happily finishing their meal. What do they think, the rest of the customers paid to hear all that racket? Good for you if you have a child, but rest of us also have hectic and depressing lives, we also deserve to have a good time especially when we're paying. I mean wth is this attitude, oh I have a child, I change nappies, I feed and somehow my presence and money is more special than yours? Fortunately the managers don't think like that.

Being a parent doesn't mean everything still should be about you. There are plenty of parents who change their lifestyle, attitude and little ways for sake of their children, not because of others.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Maybe some pathetically stubborn and disrespectful folks require a total restaurant frowning to get them pay attention to their child. But its not always about others but more often than not, its the parents themselves who want their child all calm and happy more than anyone else, so they can really enjoy their meal as a family. My sisters have kids and sometimes they would take their babies out in fresh air not because they were told to, they’d do that because can’t see their child being so disturbed. I mean what type of parents would have a nerve to ‘enjoy’ their meal when their baby is having a serious meltdown? I guess those loud cries and screams of an agitated baby sound like music to their ears.

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

the cries of a newborn are just so darn cute..

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Re: Are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

Yeah that can be cute sometimes.