Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Lifestyle Relationships
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The number of polygamous relationships among British Muslims is increasing, according to British Muslim groups. So what is it like to have two wives or be married to a man and share him with someone else?

"I love both of them. Obviously you can love one more than the other.

“I spend one day and one night with one, and one day one night with the other,” says Imran (not his real name), one of the growing number of second generation British Muslim men who have two wives.

Imran was born and brought up in Birmingham, where he runs his own successful business manufacturing Indian desserts.

His first marriage was arranged at the age of 18. However, seven years into the marriage Imran says he fell in love with someone else.

Instead of having an affair he did the honourable thing in the eyes of Islam and married her - thus taking a second wife.

It’s better than a man being married and then having mistresses on the side when we can do it legitimately and it’s perfectly allowed”

Imran
Birmingham polygamist
“It’s better than a man being married and then having mistresses on the side when we can do it legitimately and it’s perfectly allowed,” he says.

"God has created us the way we are, that mankind desires more in wealth in sexual desires.

“The main thing is as long as you are ‘just’ among them, Islamically what can be more right than that, if you are taking care of them, fulfilling their rights,” he says.

But Imran did not tell his first wife that he had taken a second wife.

His first wife lives with her in-laws. Imran admits the relationship between his second wife and his parents - who are originally from Pakistan, where monogamy is the norm - is at times strained.

Initially, Imran didn’t tell his first wife he had remarried, but eventually she accepted it and now she gets on with his second wife. The wives regularly go shopping together with all his children.

He has four children with his first wife and two with his second wife.

And Imran says a number of his friends now also have second wives
Khola Hassan, a lecturer in Islamic Law and volunteer on the UK Sharia Council says she has witnessed a sense of a right to polygamy develop particularly amongst third generation British Muslims.

When she was growing up in Britain 20 years ago she says no-one talked about polygamy as it was incredibly rare. However in the last 15 years she has noticed more polygamous marriages taking place.

It is not known exactly how many British Muslims are involved in polygamous marriages. As they are illegal they are not being officially recorded.

Bigamy is a criminal offence which for those convicted could mean a maximum jail term of up to seven years.

To avoid this, Muslims already legally married instead have a religious ceremony known as a Nikka, which is not registered as a civil marriage, but rather recognises the union in the eyes of Allah.

When a Nikka breaks down or someone wants a divorce, it is the UK Sharia Council some Muslims turn to.

Its 2010 figures show while domestic violence is the most common reason for divorce cited by women, polygamy is now the ninth most common.

But it is not only men who are choosing to live in a polygamous relationship.

Aisha (not her real name) works for the NHS, has her own semi-detached house in Birmingham and is a divorced mother of three girls. Eight months ago she became a second wife after having a discussion.

We sat down and I just said I want to be a second wife”

Aisha
Married in a Nikka ceremony
Her first marriage broke up after she discovered her husband had been having an affair. But three years later she had an affair with a married man.

Her new partner wanted to divorce his first wife and marry Aisha. But she had another idea.

"(I said) ‘I don’t want to be with you 24/7. I appreciate you want to leave your wife but I don’t want you to leave your wife’.

“But he said ‘I want to be with you. I want to be married to you’. So we sat down and I just said I want to be a second wife.”

Her husband had to break the news to his first wife who was very unhappy with the situation but eventually agreed to it rather than divorce.

He agreed he would still support his first wife and their children, but she in turn said she did not want to know anything at all about Aisha, and she certainly did not want to become friends with her.

Aisha’s wedding ceremony was very small and held at home, and not all of Aisha’s husband’s family even know about her. She says it works well most of the time.

"I have asked my husband if he loves his first wife, and he does say ‘I do care about her’ and yes he loves her as well.

"That’s the only time I do get jealous, but she was there before me, and you know I didn’t want to take that away from her.

Some Muslim women want nothing to do with their husband’s second wives
“I’ve not totally taken him away from his first wife.”

Khola Hassan’s research has shown her that there are predominantly three types of men who are involved in polygamy.

“There are the radicals, the orthodox who think polygamy is compulsory, almost sense of bravado or competition - ‘oh he has second wife and I haven’t’,” she says.

"The second group are those who have been forced into unhappy marriages usually to cousins from abroad, tried to make the marriage work, have children, and don’t want a divorce as their parents will never speak to them again, so have taken a second wife.

“Then there are those who have got a parent living abroad and want someone to look after them.”

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, a member of the Muslim Council of Britain, says polygamy is something Islam permits as it is in the Koran.

He says in the chapter on women, one verse details how men can marry up to four wives at any one given time.

The situation came about in the 14th Century when there was a battle in which many Muslim men were killed, resulting in many widows and orphans.

In order to safeguard their property and wealth it was suggested other men should marry them.

But according to Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra there is more context which some Muslims are choosing to ignore.

The Koran goes on to say if a man cannot treat his wives fairly, justly and equally then he can only marry one woman.

Although Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra is not against polygamy, he believes in reality very few men can treat even their first wife equally and justly.

"The moment it becomes secretive, or you start treating one less well than the other then you are contradicting the conditions that the Koran sets out.

“And if it’s purely done for sexual gratification then that in itself is not a valid reason,” he says.

Listen to the Asian Network Report Special: What’s Wrong with Polygamy? on Monday 26 September at 18:00.

BBC News - The British Muslim men who love ‘both their wives’

I wouldn’t have a problem with this trend if:

  1. the first wife is okay with it
  2. the man doesn’t marry more out of lust, or he has fallen in love or some crappy excuse like that
  3. Its disturbing that some people see it as some sort of distinct Islamic and meritorious practice. After all our Prophet(SAW) himself was married to only one woman in his youth and he only took more wives 2 years after her death due to social, political or economic reasons.
  4. and to see people think of it as a ‘right’. Well its the right of a wife to be paid for any housework and have separate accommodation. Lets just reduce marriage to a crude legal relationship that consists of just two words ‘rights’ and ‘responsibilities’.

The Prophet(saw) said ’ don’t like the tasters,men and women’. ‘Allah doesn’t like the tasters, men and women’.
He was referring to people who do serial marriages for ‘variety’. Polygamists should also pay heed to this

Are Pakistanis in Britain welcoming or disturbed from this trend?

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Here is another article on the same topic.

LONDON // Sharia councils in Britain are reporting an unexpected and “dramatic” rise in the number of Muslim men taking second or third wives.
Topic
UK

A prominent Muslim legal expert warned that, because polygamy is illegal in the UK, second and any subsequent wives and their children could be left destitute and without recourse to the courts should these marriages break down.
Official government figures estimate the number of polygamous marriages in Britain at about 1,000. However, Muslim social workers believe the actual total could be 20 times greater.
The only legal polygamous marriages in the UK are ones that involve foreign nationals who marry in countries where they are lawful. And they have to have been carried out before any of the people involved arrive in Britain.
A BBC report this week said British Muslims were getting around this by taking one wife legally and then subsequent ones in unrecognised nikah services carried out in homes or mosques.
Khola Hasan, a law lecturer and member of the UK’s Islamic Sharia Council, told a Cambridge University law journal that the number of non-registered, nikah-only marriages “is showing a dramatic rise”.
“This has wide implications for sharia councils as well as for the human rights of women,” she said. Because polygamy was practised underground, she said, “if these marriages fail, the women and children are often left in very vulnerable positions”.
Most Muslim organisations in Britain have declared their opposition to polygamy. “We are not in favour of the practice of polygamy for a number of reasons, not least of which is that it goes against both the letter and ethos of the law in this country,” said a statement from the Islamic Society of Britain.
“Regardless of the theological and ethical debate, the bottom line is that this is not a positive requirement of Islam - it is an allowance. Thus, if the law of this country has prohibited the practice, this must be upheld.”
Tariq Ali, a social worker in Lancashire and co-founder of Project BME, a charity for minority communities based in Darwen, Lancashire, told the Daily Mail that he was encountering many nikah-only marriages in Britain, mainly in the Pakistani community.
“Every single man of my age who I bump into seems to have a third, fourth or fifth wife,” he said.
“The issue is going unreported but in the Asian communities this is becoming a way of life. I think the number of polygamous relationships must be 20,000.”
He said that men find second wives not only in the UK but abroad. “The new favourite places to find women are Turkey and Morocco, because the men can drive there by car to meet them and bring them back,” he said.
Research by Mrs Hassan has indicated that men taking second wives basically fall into three categories.
“There are those who think polygamy is compulsory. [They have] almost a sense of bravado or competition - ‘Oh, he has a second wife and I haven’t’,” she told the BBC.
"The second group are those who have been forced into unhappy marriages, usually to cousins from abroad, tried to make the marriage work, have children, and don’t want a divorce as their parents will never speak to them again, so have taken a second wife.
“Then there are those who have got a parent living abroad and want someone to look after them.”

Read more: Muslim group disapproves of polygamy trend in the UK - The National
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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

The truth about polygamy: A special investigation into how Muslim men can exploit the benefits system
By SUE REID
UPDATED: 13:08 GMT, 24 September 2011
Comments (412)
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Ghulam is a taxi driver who lives in Blackburn, a once-booming textile town in Lancashire. He has a terrace house near his local mosque (one of 53 in the area), a silver Nissan car and a very complex private life.
For he has so many children that he struggles to remember their names, and five wives from various countries, including Yemen, Egypt, Turkey and his own birthplace, Pakistan.
Ghulam’s latest bride is a shy 20-year-old called Hafeza. He brought her to Britain from Morocco, soon after his 45th birthday earlier this year. They married in an Islamic wedding ceremony called ‘the Nikah’ in her village, with Hafeza’s pleased parents among the guests.

Two experienced Lancashire social workers say that in their estimation there are 20,000 bigamous or polygamous unions in the UK
Thirty miles across the Pennines in Yorkshire, pizza delivery driver Wasim, 27, has an equally complicated domestic life.
He lives in a part of Dewsbury called Savile Town, a network of 11 terrace streets dominated by one of the biggest mosques in Europe, where most residents are Asian with origins in Pakistan or India.
Wasim has three wives, the first of whom lives with him and their three teenage sons. His other two wives have separate houses in Savile Town, one down the road and another round the corner. He visits each two nights a week.
The women have had several of Wasim’s children and he hopes the youngest bride (aged 19) will soon present him with another baby.

I learned of Ghulam and Wasim this week while investigating a subject that is taboo in politically correct Britain. It is the huge rise of bigamy (having two wives) and polygamy (more than two) in our Muslim communities.
The issue was recently bravely highlighted by Baroness Flather, a crossbench life peer who was herself born in Lahore, now part of Pakistan.
She warned the Lords (and also wrote an article for the Mail on the subject) about how our shambolic benefits system is being exploited by men hailing from Pakistan and other Muslim nations who indulge in multiple marriages — with taxpayers forced to foot the bill.
As Baroness Flather explained: ‘The wives are regarded by the welfare system as single mothers, and are therefore entitled to a full range of lone parent payments.
'As a result, several “families” fathered by the same man can all claim benefits, as they are provided for by the welfare state, which treats them as if they were not related,’

The issue was recently bravely highlighted by Baroness Flather
Lady Flather also lamented the reluctance of politicians to address the issue: ‘It is certainly difficult to discuss this phenomenon of serial marriage and exploitation of the benefits system, with few people in Britain seeming to want to confront the disturbing truth.’
Two years ago, another peer, Baroness Warsi, born in Dewsbury to Pakistani parents, and now a Coalition Cabinet Minister, also voiced her concerns. She said cultural sensitivity was stopping politicians addressing the problem.
Yet this week I found those — from within the heart of the Asian communities — who were prepared to speak out.
Although the Government says there are only 1,000 such bigamous or polygamous unions in the UK, two experienced Lancashire social workers — one of Indian-English heritage and the other with Pakistani origins — told me that, although it’s difficult to be precise, in their estimation the figure is closer to 20,000.
The social workers said the multiple marriages are encouraged by a welfare system which allows a second, third or fourth wife to be treated as a single mother who gets a house and an array of other state payments for herself and her children.
Controversially, it means that a man can take a new spouse (from anywhere in the world), sire any number of children with her, and yet have no responsibility for this family’s upkeep or care.
To avoid breaking Britain’s matrimony laws, the men marry their extra ‘wives’ in an Islamic Nikah ceremony, either in their own homes or a mosque.
These marriages are not recognised officially, so they do not appear in government statistics or have any status under the law. They also do not count when assessing welfare payments.
Another technique is for a couple to marry legally under British law but then divorce, leaving them then to have a Nikah ceremony and continue living together. The woman will then be entitled to welfare payments as a single mother and the man can then bring another woman from abroad and legally marry her in Britain.
Men also cheat the system by bringing brides from abroad as nannies for their children, or as carers for a sick relative. The bride gets a year’s visitors’ visa, disappears into a tight-knit local community, and is entitled to receive welfare hand-outs.
While it has long been a cliche for men to complain that their wives and children take up most of their income, the reality for polygamous husbands is that the more babies he sires, the more money pours in for him and his wives.
As Tariq Ali, the 45-year-old co-founder of Project BME (Black Minority Ethnics), a charity based in Darwen, Lancashire, admits: ‘There are thousands of bigamous and polygamous marriages in the UK’s Pakistani community — the same community into which I was born.
'Every single man of my age who I bump into seems to have a third, fourth or fifth wife.
‘The issue is going unreported but in the Asian communities this is becoming a way of life. I think the number of polygamous relationships must be 20,000.
‘The men find second wives in the UK as well as any Muslim country abroad. The new favourite places to find women are Turkey and Morocco, because the men can drive there by car to meet them and bring them back.’
His colleague, Zed Ali, the manager of Project BME, added: ‘These arrangements satisfy a man’s sexual desires when he is trapped in an unhappy or sexless arranged marriage with a first wife and their families don’t countenance a divorce.
**‘The first wives often accept the situation as a compromise. **There is a limitless number of girls living in Muslim countries wanting to come to the UK for what they, and their parents, think is a better life even as a second, third or fourth wife.
‘What’s more, they are virgins — which the men like. But it means British laws are being abused, and something should be done by the Government. A first step would be the registration of Nikah weddings in this country at least.’ This would prevent many bigamous marriages.

Baroness Warsi said cultural sensitivity was stopping politicians addressing the problem
Officially, bigamy and polygamy are punishable by up to seven years in prison. It was declared illegal in England and Wales in 1604, when the Parliament of James I took action to restrain ‘evil persons’ marrying more than one wife — on penalty of death.
But officialdom now turns a blind eye because of cultural sensitivities.
A 2007 Government report estimated there were 1,000 bigamous or polygamous marriages in England and Wales.
It claimed that men living in a harem arrangement, with their wives under the same roof, were each claiming state handouts of £10,000 a year for the spouses through income support, housing and child benefits.
But the report ignored the thousands of men squeezing more money from the state by having a string of wives living in separate homes, all claiming benefits intended for single mothers and their children.
Those women are eligible for full housing benefit — reaching £106,000 a year in some parts of London — and child benefit paid at £1,000 a year for a first child, and nearly £700 for each subsequent one. Little wonder there has been an increase of foreign brides.
Lady Flather believes this free-for-all should be reduced — by giving full benefits to a woman’s first two children, three-quarters for the third and half for the fourth child. Then there should be no more benefits for any extra children.
It was also wrong, she said, that families were moving to ever larger taxpayer-funded homes, simply by expanding the number of children they have. Yet tackling this phenomenon will be difficult.
I was told this week that even the mosques’ preachers — the imams themselves — have second or third wives, some chosen from among their own worshippers.
One female health visitor in Lancashire, whose parents were born in Pakistan and came here in 1971, explained: ‘My sister has been asked by her own imam in Manchester to marry him as his second wife.
‘She is 38 and went to school here. She played netball, socialised normally, and had British friends. But her marriage to a British Asian broke down when she became very fundamentalist about religion and wanted to wear a burka. Then she turned to the mosque for advice.
‘The imam, who recently arrived from Africa, suggested a bigamous marriage to him would be the solution. My family are horrified, but plenty of imams in the UK have more than one wife.’
A little later in the day, I was introduced to Javeria, a 26-year-old British-born Muslim who is the second wife of a 29-year-old man in Rochdale, Lancashire.
He was also born in Britain and has a first wife, with whom he had an arranged marriage organised by his parents when he was 21. The forced union was an unhappy one, and they had no children. Javeria originally met her husband at an Islamic community gathering.
‘I was under pressure from my mother to get married,’ she says. ‘Most girls in my community are wives by 22, even here in the UK. I was prepared to compromise because I liked him.
‘I knew from the start there would always be his first wife and he would not divorce her.’
Javeria and her new husband had a small Nikah ceremony at her parents’ house conducted by the local imam.
Now she lives in a block of flats with her two children, aged five and three, and works in a bank as a cashier.
Her husband, meanwhile, lives half a mile away with his first wife and their three children in a semi-detached house with a garden. He visits Javeria three nights a week.
‘His first wife knows about me and is pleased because the arrangement gives her freedom from him and it also gives me freedom to pursue my career. He is devoted to his children. But he does not have to pay for my family.’
She adds: ‘I get tax credits because I am on low pay and have young children. I also get housing benefit, because the council says I need three bedrooms for myself and the kids. The child benefits for our son and daughter are paid into my account.’
But, of course, not all multiple marriages work this well.
Each year, London solicitor Anne-Marie Hutchinson, of family law firm Dawson Cornwell, advises around 20 Muslim women who have married in a Nikah ceremony — many of them second or third wives now facing marital breakdown.
‘These women are left unprotected,’ she explains. ‘They cannot claim matrimonial rights. They get no maintenance payments or share in their husband’s pension contributions. They are not wives in the eyes of the British legal system.’
No one knows that better than one Bangladeshi-born mother of three children who works in a care home in Slough, Berkshire. Orpita contacted me through her lawyer when she heard I was writing about multiple marriages in the Muslim community.
She was deserted by her husband of 20 years when he went on holiday to Bangladesh and returned to say he was about to marry a girl of 19, called Saba, in a Nikah ceremony, and wanted to bring her to Britain as his second wife.
Despite the pleas of Orpita and her children, one a teenage boy who — in fury at the betrayal — hit his father in the face, the husband told the British immigration authorities that Saba was from his home village and was to be a nanny for his children. They needed, he lied to them, a caring person who understood his family’s cultural heritage.
They officials believed him and, after the Nikah in Bangladesh, Orpita’s husband set up home with his second wife two years ago in Maida Vale, North London. They now have a one-year-old baby.
‘I am only just recovering from the shock,’ says Orpita. ‘We are not divorced, because I will not allow it. When he walked out, he said the state could look after me and that was how it worked in Britain.
‘All over the place, in London’s East End, in Yorkshire towns, down the road, across the street, I see Muslim men taking second or third wives. I cannot count the number of times I have been approached to be a second wife myself by Bangladeshi men who know I am now on my own.
‘This bigamy and polygamy is destroying families. Children grow up angry and bewildered. Many rarely see their own fathers because they have so many wives to visit.’
Then, she tucks a scarf around her head and adds, sadly: ‘It is a tragedy for everyone in this country, whether they are Muslim or not.
‘And it is the crazy welfare system that encourages it all to happen.’
Some names in this article have been changed.

Read more: Polygamy: Investigation into how Muslim men can exploit UK benefits system | Mail Online
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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Can I have summary of all this insaniyat ke naate :sid:

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

These are 3 separate news articles. I have posted the links of all 3 articles. How am I supposed to summarise it all?

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Main points of the article and the aspects you want to discuss.

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

I wouldn't have a problem with this trend if:
1) the first wife is okay with it
2) the man doesn't marry more out of lust, or he has fallen in love or some crappy excuse like that
3) Its disturbing that some people see it as some sort of distinct Islamic and meritorious practice. After all our Prophet(SAW) himself was married to only one woman in his youth and he only took more wives 2 years after her death due to social, political or economic reasons.
4) and to see people think of it as a 'right'. Well its the right of a wife to be paid for any housework and have separate accommodation. Lets just reduce marriage to a crude legal relationship that consists of just two words 'rights' and 'responsibilities'.

The Prophet(saw) said ' don't like the tasters,men and women'. 'Allah doesn't like the tasters, men and women'.
He was referring to people who do serial marriages for 'variety'. Polygamists should also pay heed to this

Are Pakistanis in Britain welcoming this trend or are they disturbed from this trend?

And is this now a major concern in the British Pakistani community?

Not to mention the blatant abuse of Islam and its laws by selfish men, such as 'Imran' who thinks he is justified because it is Islamically acceptable and it is in the nature of men to desire 'more'.

The number of women who are being forced to compromise into living in polygamous marriages.
Which will inevitably negatively impact on the children.

When I read of how these married men have affairs and later marry them and justify it by using Islam, I can't help but feel disgusted and dismayed.

And the fact that this is INCREASING is alarming.

what are the views of British Pakistanis on this?

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

I’m assuming these men are financially stable, can support 2 wives and their multiple bachay along with their needs :yawn:

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The majority of muslims in the UK struggle to run a house on sole income. How on earth are these men supporting 2 wives and 5+ kids?!

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

^Benefits...

Wife 2 or 3 or 4 can be classed as a single mother and entitled to a council house, money towards bills etc.. and the more kids she has the more she gets..

That is how the vast majority of those marriages are paid for, not thru the husband supporting them financially himself..

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

^ Ah…so pretty much how it happens here in the U.S. :disgust:

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

I don't know wnyone with two marriages.....so I don't think it's becoming a trend.

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They are on the dole, the subsequent wives are not legally considered married, so they are considered as single mothers and collect state benefits. British tax payers are paying for these jackasses.

Even if it was legal in UK, isnt the islamic requirement that the dude must be able to provide for them, not that the state had to provide for them?

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Quite the sensationalist title...

Anyway, taking advantage of the system like this pisses me off. My parents came here with very little and worked their asses off to get to where they are and this kind of stuff makes both Islam and Pakistanis look like jaahil.

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

don’t worry…Cameron is cutting down all the benefits. :rolleyes:

And those women would be considered single mothers only if they’re living separately. And without living separately they won’t be able to claim for the money. So I don’t know what the fuss is all about?

No one gets pissed off when paying for invasion of other countries. HowIslamic is that?>

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

Plenty of people are opposed to invasions. Most of the UN was opposed to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Even so, what does one have to do with the other? The benefits are there for those who need them, and if you need them then fine, but we all know people who exploit the system. I know of a family here who have lived off welfare for over 20 years. That’s ridiculous.

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

But the other wives nearly always do live separately.. Often wife 1 and her kids don’t find out till later (if ever), alfter all how many would be ok with it..

(And hundreds of thousands of brits were pissed off enough to march against the invasion of Iraq)

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

benifits?

its true how can these men support both wives and children with 1 income..?

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Re: Are Pakistanis in Britain disturbed by this trend?

I work in benefits dept and I get sooo annoyed everyday learning of the ways men and women cheat the system. Too many of them pakistani's. They turn to me thinking that just cus Im Pakistani I shud be sympathietic to them. I sure as hell aint!!!

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LOL I love it when the guys (and apparently women) preech about how they decided to go about it the Islamic way and have a second marriage than live a life in sin.

Well here’s my issue with that.
As far as I’'ve learned, there are certain conditions that need to be met for a guy to ‘need’ a second wife. Also, for the marriage to take place, the first wife needs to not only be aware, but she has to approve of it.

So in the first article, neither of the wives knew until the shaadi was over and done with. And the reasons were “because they fell in love with someone else”. Yea… real Islamic. :rolleyes:

This. :k:

And as far as cheating the system, since I’m not an awesome Brit, would someone please clarify if they’re being financially supported through the government or some sort of religious group supporting single Muslim mothers?

I’d assume these women are frowned upon in Muslim communities, if they’re perceived as single mothers (not divorced or widowed) by the public.