I think it's just as a racist act .. and an ignorant act to call someone an idiot without any constructive support, eh Peacemaker, dont' chya think so ?
kohalic,
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Rani,
if you don't believe my statement that all religions believe they are superior, why don't you just come out and say it up straight:
"Islam is every bit as just and fair as sikhism."
[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:
**Rani,
if you don't believe my statement that all religions believe they are superior, why don't you just come out and say it up straight:
"Islam is every bit as just and fair as sikhism."
**
[/quote]
Sikhism believes all human being are equal regardless of their religion and that is what i believe in and all human being who do good Karam will go to heaven regardless of the religion they follow. Sikhism doesn't call any religion superior or inferior.
Read the statement below from Quran taken from Akif's post
Qur'an says, "Verily you are the best of nations"
Now tell me how equal is this.
The word "superior" means that others are "inferior" because of their religion and this goes aganist teachings of sikhism.
I already provided u with an example of Main Mir a muslim was asked to lay the foundation stone of the Harmundir Sahib (golden temple), if that is not honoring muslims than tell me what it is..?
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 13, 2001).]
Peacemaker,
honestly speaking ,you are right;muslims are racist.
My first reaction to your question was a typical one.Perhaps I was feeling uncomfortable to admit it.I tried to seek shelter under Akif's post but failed.Now I agree with you that we muslims are racist
We are racist but we were not
Check the history of Islam right from its beginning.There was no racism in Madina-tu-Nabi.Holy Prophet himself called each "muhajir"is brother of "ansaar".Though jews were not called brothers but they were never treated with any discriminations.There was no racism even when muslims were the rulers of almost half of the world.The only reason which I can see is,that muslims of that time were fair to themselves.They were not muslims only by name like us.
We,muslims of today are forced to be racist.And this enforcement is coming from our deeds.We want to enjoy every material comfort,we drink beer ,we watch porn,but at the same time we want us to be called muslim.
so....we are guilty.....and due to this guilt we are insecure.And this internal feeling of insecurity forces us to be racist;for the sake of being identified as a different ethnic group.This racism is keeping us somewhat seperate or different,otherwise we are not.
In my humble opinion ,instead of being racist we should stop calling ourselves muslim.Why we fear that if our children will have jew or other friends they'll go for dates etc.What's harm in it if we don't care for other Islamic values
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
I already provided u with an example of Main Mir a muslim was asked to lay the foundation stone of the Harmundir Sahib (golden temple), if that is not honoring muslims than tell me what it is..?
[/quote]
Hello Rani. I am babydoll. I don't know about others, but if someone ask me to do that (laying the foundation stone of a temple..etc) I would decline. Does anyone ask a Jew to lay the foundation stone of Hitler monument...?
What kind of honor is that? To believe in One God (Allah) and then participating in the appreciation of another God (Temple) ?
[This message has been edited by babydoll (edited July 17, 2001).]
What kind of honor is that? To believe in One God (Allah) and then participating in the appreciation of another God (Temple) ?
There is only one creator and nobody has monoply over her/him as u like to think. Sikhs believe in one God, u can call him whatever u want but it doesn't change a thing. Mia Mir was asked to lay the stone because we respect all religions and believe that all roads lead to one God.
I am surprised at your statement about another God, and this kind of fight over my God and your God spells end of spirituality and acceptance of others. By your statement u have reduced religion to an instument to make division and groups to fight with each other. My God is diff and superior than yours and I will honor my special God is very amusing, radiculous, stupid, petty and at the same time foundation stone of racist thinking and religious stife.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 18, 2001).]
The religion Islam does not teach or tolerate racism. Racism has become a relevant term and has changed as everything around changes with time. Should ever thing change with time I dint think so but that’s a topic in its own right and should be discussed in separately. Now people will ask how is racism a relevant term, a good example is the Whites and Black issue. Whites cannot say anything against Blacks but on the other hand Blacks can call Whites any thing they like in public. People cannot say any thing bad about Jews because they will be labeled as uncompassionate and heartless but you can bash Islam and Christianity and no one will raise an eyebrow. Its all a media game and if you play your cards right any one can play with the human mind. Some one made a comment about Muslims calling them selves the Best. I ask you what’s wrong with that. Are we too scared to be labeled as arrogant? Why are we so image conscious now days, if you think you are the best them call your self-the best. I don’t see and body calling Americas racist when they call themselves the best nation on the face of this earth.
Rani,
sikhs undoubtedly believe their religion to be the right one. So they obviously believe other religions to be wrong. Otherwise you would have no problem saying the following:
"I Rani, do hereby declare that Islam is equal in every way to Sikhism, especially with regard to women."
Now I guarantee you won't say that, you will come back with some crap about some muslim laying a foundation stone in your temple.
Now I really can't be bothered to get into the usual backward and forward argument with you, just C&P that quote right there and I won't have an argument.
I Rani, do hereby declare that Islam is equal in every way to Sikhism, especially with regard to women."
I don't want to put any religion down but forcing women to cover themselves from head to toe and sanctioning polygamy, giving power to men to say talaq three times to divorce a wife is aganist Sikh principles. Sikhism believe in gender quality in all forms.
" Ekoo Nari Jatti Satti'
From Guru Granth Sahib..it means you form relationship with only one women.
P.S. The things u refer to crap are foundation stones of toleration, respect and acceptace of other religions.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 18, 2001).]
I ask you what’s wrong with that. Are we too scared to be labeled as arrogant? Why are we so image conscious now days, if you think you are the best them call your self-the best. I don’t see and body calling Americas racist when they call themselves the best nation on the face of this earth.
You will have a problem if Americans called white race the best race in the world or Christainty the best religion. Also, if Jews called themselves the best people and their religion superior than the other middle eastern religions.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 18, 2001).]
Sikhism believe in gender quality in all forms.
Yes, but obviously you believe Islam as equally equal in regard to gender as in your own words:
[quote]
I Rani, do hereby declare that Islam is equal in every way to Sikhism, especially with regard to women
[/quote]
Yes, but obviously you believe Islam as equally equal in regard to gender as in your own words:
If Islam believe in one wife for one man, same talaq rights for men and women and no special covering for women. Both men and women can officiate religious ceremonies and can become Mullahs or Priests and pray in the same Masjid and participate in Politics and religious life equally, then the status of women is equal to Sikhism otherwise it is not.
P.S. You conclusion without any supporting evidence doesn't make any sense
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 18, 2001).]
Rani, for your information I would not have any problem with that.
1,Women in Islam have the same Talaq rights as Men.
2, Women pray in the same mosques as Men do every day.
3, Women do participate in political and religious life every day.
4, Every thing in Islam is done for some a reason, there is a logic behind every thing
Rani if you can replay to my post in a civilized manner then do so other wise don’t bother.
Rani
I think I've said all I need to say on this matter. If you want to stumble backwards and forwards, feel free.
Xtreme,
You asked me a question and i tried to provide u with an honest information.
Tazz...i have nothing to say to u.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 18, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
I don't want to put any religion down but forcing women to cover themselves from head to toe .....
[/quote]
Rani, let me ask you a question that has bug me for some time now, and I hope that you might be able to satisfy my curiosity.
Why do Sikh women cover their head when they are in 'Gurdware' or reading some holy books?
Does this have any significant in religious point of view or it a pointless thing?
Why do Sikh women cover their head when they are in 'Gurdware' or reading some holy books?
Not only women, men also cover their head when in Gurdawara. In Northern India specially Punjab, covering head traditionally used to be (in some parts still is) mark of respect towards elders and teachers. We consider "Guru Granth Sahib" our teacher therefore we cover our head to show respect.
Covering head is not religious but traditional.
why sikh women don’t wear the ‘paggar’ their men wear??
anwer? Women are not PHYSICALLY, CHEMICALLY, MENTALLY same as MEN, do you get the point? Allah knows that much more than us, HE directed us to do as HE understands BEST what the role of women should be and what a role of MEN should be.
Here, I’m not saying that whatever Muslim men are doing to Muslim women in world is ISLAMIC. If you are curious, please read some good books on Islam.
**About the original post: “are muslims racist?”
Muslims keep their kids away from any non-Muslim kids otherwise their beleifs will get corrupted (mixed) with beleifs from other religion, they’d want to do things their friends or their family do. Thereby, you’ll lose the purity of your religion by adapting beleifs/traditions from other religions.
Keeping kids away from other religions’ kids is not because they are “inferior” or “liars” or “not honorable enough” bla bla. Its just for the sake of keeping your own beleifs pure (even though they might be corrupted to some level, but you try to maintain that level if not raise).
If desis/Muslims don’t mix with goras, or other non-Muslim people to keep their ‘culture’ pure, then they don’t get any reward in here-after.**
I hope I made my point, if got some questions/comments feel free
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We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?