Are muslims racist?

Lifestyle Relationships
1

This question has been bothering me for some time. May be you guys can come up with simple explanations (or complex ones, whatever you wish).

Are muslims racist?

On the face of it, the answer will be a resounding “no”. We are not racist. Our religion says “No arab or non-arab has superiority over the other” meaning all are equal. But don’t we discriminate at all times, continuously?

Let me give you some examples of every day lives.

I meet many muslims here, who proudly claim that they don’t mingle with goras and prefer to keep friends with Pakistanis and muslims.

I see many muslim parents who want their kids to play with muslim kids only.

Many muslims become uncomfortable when a jew or a christian or a hindu tries to become friendly. Many refer to the quranic ayat which says “And a jew and a cristian can never become your friend” and, therefore, justify that we should not try to be friendly towards them. Many muslims refer to quranic injuntions against idol-worshippers to prove their case for disgust against all hindus and justify their attitude.

In Pakistan, parents do not like when their kids play with servants’ kids, christian kids (chooras - as someone said in another thread).

While marrying their kids, the blood line is considered very important in many muslim families.

Many of the muslims feel uncomfortable eating in the same dishes as hindus. Some even go far as to say that eating something cooked in an Ahmadis (qadiani) house is not permitted.

What is racism? On a practical sense, I mean it that you don’t deal with someone as to what sort of person he is, but your attitude towards that person is based on the color of his skin, or his creed or his religion.

When we reverse it, and someone discriminates against us because we are carrying a green passport or because we look asian, or because we have a beard and look muslim, we cry hoarse chanting “racist, racist”. We call them “red-necks” and “WASP” in a very deregatory manner. We want everyone to deal with us as a person and not stereotype us (as terrorist or ignorant or backward), but at the same time, we ourselves discriminate on the largest level. On the grandest scale. The thread on Saudi Arabians in the Religion section shows how, despite clear commandments given 1400 years ago, Saudis still consider themselves better than the others.

Maybe its all a matter of perception. Maybe all of the above have logical reasons. Maybe we, the muslims, do not like to criticize ourselves or analyze our own actions while condemning others so eloquently. Is all of the above racism? Are muslims racist?

2

Take out the word 'Muslim', and use the word 'human' instead. You will see that the above definitions apply to just about any society in the world.
You are focusing on muslims because you belong to the group. Look at it from a broader perspective, and it will give you your answer. Its not a religious thing. Its a human thing...part of our nature which 'forces' us to promote and retain our individuality.

3

I will differ here. Maybe its just a matter of experiences.

The gora families in our neighborhood are all very friendly and their kids are very friendly, but the muslim families here are always trying to encourage their kids to play with muslim kids only. Seems strange.

Then, generally the gora families have no hang-ups making friends with anyone, chapta, desi or latino. But that is not the case with us.

Maybe, as I said, its just a matter of perception or experience. A person can come here and say "Oh I am friends with lots of goras and latinos are my best buddies". Thats fine, but generally speaking, is this true. Do we, muslims, integrate poorly because we are natually biased against other religions?

And Akif, based on your response, are u suggesting that if we define the word 'racist' the way I defined it in my first post, then everyone is a racist, and hence it is not a bad thing in the first place?

4

The thing is, though there are certain gora families that dont have any problems allowing their kids to mingle with anyone, there are many that do avoid such interaction. They wont show it openly, but it exists. Most of it evolves not from racism, but from culturalism. For muslim families, the biggest concern is for their kid to get exposed to activities such as dating, drinking and sex in a way that will tell them its ok to indulge in such activities. That is the main reason for many families to practice segregation, not race. I can guarantee u if u were surrounded by gora muslim families, the desi muslim families would not have any problems allowing their kids to mingle.

Its a fact of life....you take up the habits of your company. so if u want to avoid those habits, you will have to avoid that company to a certain extent.

And yes, each and every person in this world is a racist....but no, its not a good thing. You have rednecks/blacks/yankees/latinos in the US...you have chaudhrys/jatts/chooras/ in Pakistan. Its horrible and wrong...and ignorance at its worst.

Racism is segregating based on race...not religion. Religion has always been a seperate thing. If we were to integrate religions as well, then we would have jews and muslims and hindus praying within the same enclosure, to their respective Gods.

[This message has been edited by Akif (edited July 12, 2001).]

5

I did not use the dictionary definition of racism, but a practical explanation, because I dunno what is the right word for discrimination based on religion or creed or skin-color.

Well, it might not be praying together but it is rather the way we interact with people, not based on what sort of person they are, but based on their religion.

I don't know if it is right or wrong. I guess, I had always deemed 'racism' as bad (like you said 'Its horrible and wrong...and ignorance at its worst').

Do we condone the same attitude in the garb of cultural influence and shielding ourselves and our kids from their culture?

When we start pre-judging others that e.g. we must not be friends with them bcz they are christian or jew or hindu or whatever, aren't we doing the same thing?

6

PM Muslims are not racist as we do not distinguish on skin colour but you could say that a Muslim will be “religionist”. This is because although we are taught to respect all peoples and treat them kindly at the same time our din makes it clear that Muslims are not the same as non-Muslims and we have different rights and duties etc. As the Qur’an rhetorically asks, are those who believe equal to those who do not believe?

As for marrying in certain blood lines that too is from shar’iat and is called by the technical term kafa’at. It is from Qur’an and hadith. e.g. a girl can refuse a marriage on the basis that the guy is not her kafu’ [equal in various defined areas such as lineage, religiosity] A full discussion can be found in any standard traditional work on Islamic fiqh under the chapter of marriage.

So it is not racism but the superiority of the Muslims as an Ummah due to their ** belief ** in Allah and His Beloved Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam and it is something we should be grateful to Allah for and not embarassed about. For as the Qur’an says, “Verily you are the best of nations”.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

And amongst Muslims themselves colour or nationality or race is of no merit whatsoever–only taqwa counts after correct aqaid.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Hazrat Bilal was a former Abbysinian slave but in his presence the nobles of the tribe of Quraysh such as Hazrat Umar radhiallahanhuma, after they became Muslims, would rise for him and say, “our master is here!” whereas before they became Muslims Bilal radhi Allah anhu was subjected to horrific tortures.

Ik hii saf mein khaRay ho gaye Mahmud o Ayaz
Na koi banda raha aur na koi banda nawaz!
Iqbal

7

Asif,

I am well-aware of the theoretical aspects of equality in Islam and treating everyone kindly and all that. In fact as I said in my first post, the gut-response is, no we are not 'racist'. But I am more interested in the present day behavior of muslims, in general.

You can call it 'religionist' or whatever fancy name, the basic premise remains. Even while you were negating it, you just proved it.

When you say, Muslims are superior (for whatever reason, deen, aqeeda etc), you quote Quranic ayat to prove your point "Verily you are the best of nations", "are those who believe equal to those who do not believe?".

So basically you are saying that if you meet John (a christian gora) or Hari (a hindu), you will consider yourself superior to them, because you are a muslim. That my dear friend, is what I am talking about.

Muslims discriminate. The basis may be different. We discriminate based on deen and aqeeda. They discriminate based on skin color or genes (which you kinda agreed with the concept you explained as kafa'at). So in fact all of us are guilty of the same thing. Pre-judging people based on pre-defined attributes. It doesn't matter what sort of person John or Hari is, because they are not muslim and I am muslim, so I am superior to them.

A muslim girl meets Mr A (an honest hard-working muslim guy) but she can refuse to marry him because his lineage is not in level with her. It doesn't matter how good a person Mr A is or how good a muslim is.

I know 'racism' is a very narrow word, but if this isn't racism, it is something, and that something, this feeling of superiority, is what I am trying to understand. I am not saying if it wrong or right. I am saying, it is there. And if it is alright for muslims to discriminate, then why do we cry foul when we are discriminated against, by goras or by anyone else?

8

So it is not racism but the superiority of the Muslims as an Ummah due to their belief <<

akhay....main chori thoRhi kardaN, main te taalay bhann'daN.(I don't steal/loot, I only break locks).

Asif, It is very simple...do you believe all humans are equal or not? Simple Yes or No.
A man from Madras and man from Rawalpindi, are they equal humans or not?
If you answer is "Yes, if they are both muslims"..then it is racism.

9

ive lots of spanish people in my school,probably 85 percent of the students.all the indians and pakistanis behave normally infront of them but when they are among desis,they say things like"this school is like a spic world",or"these f*cking spics are too annoying".so its everywhere.in my school,black guys say things against whites too.its present in every single society.

TRUE PAKI AKA CROREPATI NEVER DID ANYTHING.THEY WERE INNOCENT,BELIEVE ME JUDGE SAHIB,BELIEVE ME...........

10

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
Take out the word 'Muslim', and use the word 'human' instead. You will see that the above definitions apply to just about any society in the world.
You are focusing on muslims because you belong to the group. Look at it from a broader perspective, and it will give you your answer. Its not a religious thing. Its a human thing...part of our nature which 'forces' us to promote and retain our individuality.
[/quote]

right sir!!!!!!!!!!

11

In one form or the other, every one is a racist. Let's move on.

12

If Muslims are involved in anything bad then they will take that bad thing to it's heights. For example if they drink, abuse etc. then they will do it so badly that even people who have no problem doing it become shameful. Similarly, if Muslims are racist then they will be the worst of their kind.

I don't know if we should use the word "Muslim" or the "Confused Muslim" who do such thing as a Muslim should follow the sayings of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) that a black has no superiority over white and white has no superiority over black ..... (close translation).

Still you will find that people in Pakistan differentiate among different nationalities, Arabs in the middle east differentiate themselves from other Arab nations yet their language, culture, history etc is same.

I agree these people are wosrt Racist.

13

I think this should go in the religion forum.

14

Peacemaker you are confusing racism with preference. The reasons you give about Muslims not letting their children play with Goras has nothing to do with Race but it has every thing to do with preference. As some one already said it’s the society and its morals that cause Muslims to pick and chose who they mingle with. There is nothing wrong with calling your self-the best, tell me how calling your self the best make you racist. Islam never said don’t be friends with non-Muslims what it says it you cannot trust them because they will not look after your interest. Muslims in some countries are racists but Islam does not promote or tolerate Racism. I urge all the Muslims to learn their religion on a first hand bases and not on what ppl tell them.

15

*There is nothing wrong with calling your self-the best, tell me how calling your self the best make you racist. *

Being best by virtue of something u have created or achieved is good but being best because of your religion, which u precieve is superior than others, is racist and reeks of intoleration. You are best because u are muslim doesn't work specially when u live in secular countries, which strive constantly for equality and toleration, this kind of thinking is self defeating.

Islam never said don’t be friends with non-Muslims what it says it you cannot trust them because they will not look after your interest

Saying u cannot trust certain people for all time to come because they don't belong to your religion is prejudging them and very abusive goes aganist all principles of equality and human rights. Who wants to become friends with somebody who are taught not to trust u.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 13, 2001).]

16

Thanks to all those who replied so far. These responses are a classic case of paradox :)

Some of you think racism is everywhere, so lets accept it.

Some of you think its a problem limited to certain countries

Some, think its a bad thing, and some think its a way of life, so lets move on.

Some suggest its not racism but preference and cultural protectiveness.

Surprising thing is, all of you are right. :)

As Asif so eloquently proved, we, the muslims, are supposed to be superior. Khan_sahib suggested that its just a "Confused Muslim" and proved it by a hadith which compares just muslims and not people of different religions. So as Chann said, we'd consider a kala and a gora equal only if both of them are muslims, but not if they are non-muslims.

Since most of us are Pakistanis, and talking about Pakistani culture, we all see everyday that decent normal muslim parents do not like thier kids to play with servants' kids, even though they may be muslims. Perhaps that is not racism per se, but just another example that most muslims only wish to associate with their peers in wealth and status. This thing, Asif referred to as ka'fu or kafa'at. Again we are in the forefront of discrimination, as a group and not in isolated cases of ignorance.

TAZZ explained that its all personal preference, and he is right. If I live in Pakistan, amongst all muslims, I still pick and choose my friends, why would it be different when I am in USA. However the thing is, I may not like someone in Pakistan due to many reasons, but I won't subject him to a prejudice. In USA, if I go by Asif's thinking, I would say, I am a muslim so I am superior and these christians and hindus are not equal to me, because they are all jahanummi. Jews are a condemned nation, so I won't be friends with them. I am continuously pre-judging them, not as to what sort of person they are but because of their religion.

TAZZ says, that there is nothing wrong with calling yourself the best. So, infact when Germans or Russians or Jews or Aryans call themselves as best and the rest as inferior, they are exercising the same option. When goras in England or Australia attack brown-skinned people and throw bricks at them, they are manifesting their right to consider themselves as superior. They think Asians are inferior and treat them as such. They don't treat muslims as a person but pre-judge them because of the color of their skin and their beliefs. Do we like it?

TAZZ says, Islam does not stop you from being friends with non-muslims but tells you not to trust them. Ummmmm?

A friend of mine landed in New York airport and the immigration guy subjected him to some extra questions. When he came out, he said that guy was a racist. Anchal mentioned that in Australia, racism is growing. Riots in UK are blamed on racism. There are many examples all around us where muslims complain of racism against them. Tell me, if we ourselves prejudge and discriminate people on the largest possible scale, then who is to stop others from doing the same to us? Why complain then?

17

I think a better way of putting this would have been "Are muslims prejudiced?"

And the answer is certainly yes. If they didn't believe in the superiority of their faith, why would they follow it? It's the same with any religion when stripped down to it's basics.

As for muslims being racists, well certainly there are plenty of racist muslims. Just as there are plenty of muslims who will drink, indulge in theft and hooliganism. A wake up call for you Peacemaker, the lads who wrecked Bradford weren't sporting long beards and skull caps. They were wearing designer clothes and studs in their ears.

When one of the crowd threw a beer can into Ricky Ponting's face during the presentation ceremony in the Natwest final, I don't think he was following Quran and Sunnah, do you?

18

Throwing a can of beer, to me, it seems an act of frustration, rather than prejudice or racism. Islam has nothing to do with it.

But you are right... a better way of putting it is "Are muslims prejudiced?".

Superiority of Islam is perhaps not the basic question. It is an attitude prevailing in muslims of keeping themselves 'pure' and not associate with people of other religions. Comparatively speaking, a majority of christians do not feel the need to constantly segregate into christian pockets. I am not sure how un-prejudiced hindus and jews are, for example.

Just as an example, America, Canada, Australia, Europe are in the forefront of welcoming people from all over the world and giving them citizenship but no muslim country allows such easy citizenship. Do you know how difficult it is to get Pakistani citizenship for a hindu or a christian? Ofcourse there are many economic and political reasons for this, but one thing is clear. These "christians" are not afraid of "non-christians" coming in and living with them. While muslims, everywhere, get terrified and uncomfortable at the prospect of even "christian tourists" coming and ruining their purity of land and messing up their cultural values. Why don't people of San Francisco complain that chinese have mono-polized a China Town or Indians are a majority in Fremont? To them, its a good thing to be metropolitan and diverse, while muslims prefer to close their societies and preserve. Saudis won't give you a citizenship even if you are a born and bred muslim. They feel you will threaten their way of life. They will kick you out in no time even if you have spent 20 years working there.

Being a muslim, it always amazes me that we complain the hardest when someone shows prejudice against us (because we are muslims), but we ceaselessly carry out the same prejudice and discrimination to all other people. All in the name of religious correctness or cultural protectiveness.

19

And the answer is certainly yes. If they didn't believe in the superiority of their faith, why would they follow it? It's the same with any religion when stripped down to it's basics.

I disagree..if it was true Guru Ram Das ji wouldn't choose Mia Mir a muslim to lay foundation stone of Harmundir Sahib (Golden Temple).

Your favorite milli naghma?
20

Hmm. Are muslims racist? Of course they would be. Just consider the point of view of someone who is not religious. The primary observable effect of religion is to create an "us" and a "them," with the "us" being a privileged, superior group. Of course you believe yourself superior - you believe you are going to be rewarded eternally for that superiority, and that I am going to punished eternally for my inferiority. Belief in your redemption and eternal reward is by any definition of 'superiority' obviously belief in your superiority. Superiority is not necessarily a dirty word. I see nothing wrong with a justified belief in one's superiority. But when belief in one's superiority is predicated on a false belief it is an insidious belief. And when a belief that one is superior in one specific fashion is used as the basis for a more generalized sense of superiority, I say treachery is afoot. And Asif has fallen into that last trap. Kinda typical if you ask me.

The degree to which this is indicated in one's religious beliefs varies from person to person. In a person who says "I feel sorry for you and others like you" it is presumably a quite major component of that person's beliefs - we don't feel sorry for those we view as our moral equals because of the bases of their beliefs and morality. Unless, of course, Asif feels sorry for me because I disagree with him, my comment is not directed at him.

Certainly there are other purposes to religion for the religious individual. Just about anything in fact. Ranging from the benign to the malignant. However, there is a universal and powerful human drive to dichotomise society into an "us" and "them". So it is reasonable to interpret activity that furthers the cause of that drive as being motivated by that drive, in the presence of any evidence to that effect. (Got it?)

[quote]
Originally posted by Asif:

Muslims are not racist as we do not distinguish on skin colour but you could say that a Muslim will be "religionist".

...

So it is not racism but the superiority of the Muslims as an Ummah due to their belief...

[/quote]

Nonsense. You do feel superior. You just said so yourself. To you it is a justified superiority, but it is a superiority nonetheless. To me it's a delusional sense of superiority on your part. Let's not let some sense of politically correct egalitarianism destroy the meaning of the words in the english language. You believe yourself superior to non-Muslims in a particular fashion, and you have translated that into a general superiority without any basis. Go figure.

Stand upright, speak thy thought, declare,
The truth thou hast that all may share,
Be bold, proclaim it everywhere,
They only live who dare.