What do members of Gupshup think? As muslims, most Pakistanis think of gay people as perverts, although there are plenty who disagree. I would like to hear the views of liberalists such as NYAhmadi, Nova, Imran Bokhari,faceup and Indians like ZZ and Bombaykid, as well as those who agree that homosexuals are depraved/misled/freaks.
Should Gay people be:
a) Accepted into society, and therefore allowed to touch each other’s butts in public.
b) Ignored - what they do in private is up to them
c) Shunned and villified - forced to keep their seedy activities underground.
d)Given freedom of public lavatories to carry on their activities
Xtreme Yar, here are my 4 cents (one each for heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and trans-gender).
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and there is nothing that can be done about it. People are born gay, and don’t wake up one day and decide about their sexual orientation. People of the same sex can be attracted towards each other and I don’t see anything wrong with it.
They deserve the same respect as others do.
They have suffered throughout history.
Laws should be enacted and enforced to tackle discrimination that they face.
Here are some famous Homosexuals: Alexander the Great, Michaelanglo, Most of Afghan Talibans. I also think that God is gay (if he really exists).
In some societies sexuality if suppressed, so it is hard to say what percentage of population is Gay. My guess for Islamic countries is that at least 10% of population falls into Gay category, give or take a point.
[quote]
What people do in their bedroom is their
own business, why should I care?
I don’t discriminate people because they
have other sexual habits than me.
[/quote]
This is a standard duck the issue reply. Let me ask you; if there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, then why shouldn't gay people be allowed to behave like other couples, i.e., snogging at bus stops in downtown L.A. What's that you say? They already do? my apologies...please let me know if this is ok in your view. Thanks.
NYA,
your speculation as usual is very entertaining. So people are born gay? This reminds me of Oliver Stone's film Natural Born Killers. Perhaps you could write a script for Natural Born Shirt-lifters?
As for your assertion that God is gay, that is highly unlikely. Were that the case, men would also be able to bear children, with delivery possibly through the backside...for ultimate gay experience. Thanks for your thoughts anyway.
But, like straight ppl, i dun't want the couples to be showing their affection in public (gross!!..whether your gay or straight..).
It was in the news yesterday that a "Straight pride" campaign is to be begun by wearing (believe it or not) T-Shirts displaying your sexual orientation (which is SO dumb!!) when you go out. Some ppl look @ this campaign to bring down/reject all the campaigns which are for homosexuals. Some ppl are fine with it -- where we ought to be proud in what our sexual orientation we represent. Others -- like myself -- think it's a ridiculous idea.
Whatever one's sexual orientation is, is their own, or their partner's business.
But you can't put them down just cuz they're gay...... Like, there already a lot of gay ppl in the world today as it already is. If you're the homophobic type, what do you inted to do? Kill them all so that you can wipe them out from the face of the earth? Ofcourse not. That's just being.......a tyrant or dictator or something.
well Kohal, look at your own example. The straight pride/gay pride demonstrations, what does that tell you? That even in the Land of the Free, people are confused and feel threatened by the shifting morality.
Whatever one’s sexual orientation is, is their own, or their partner’s business.
Well yes, fine if they keep it in private but that is no longer the case. Gays want the same rights as everyone else, which includes rearing children, teaching homo-studies in school, two guys making out on tv - “hey…if straight people get to do it why not us!”
As for solutions…we’ll come to that later. Let’s just ponder the implications first shall we?
Hmmm…point (b) is gonna be a favourite here - no surprises. Everybody…consider points (a) and (e) also please. Let’s not beat about the bush eh?
I personally donot think its normal behavior -- maybe I am a bit prejudiced. But I do recognise that they have every right to believe what they do and act as they like (within limits of course). So even though I wouldn't agree with their views, I have nothing against gay persons and I definitely donot hate them.
Regardless of homosexuals marrying & believing in love & all that mushy jazz.......if they decide to have the kid, they really ought to look out in a realistic point of view for the best interest of the child.
Mother-Father families throughout the 'Land of Freedom' face enough problems as it already is whether divorce, affairs, etc. are an issue or not; they all still --> lead to the kid suffering in such sad ways, it's overwhelming. Can you imagine the problems in a mother-mother or father-father relationship families & how the kids in THoSE particular families will live through!? True, there are some mther-father families which can stand up & make it through family problems; maybe even some of the gay-parent families can make it through as well. But, it's not worth the risk, of the Kids themselves, to be experimented on whether gay marriage families do work out or not. It's unfair to these children.
Kohal that is just an assumption on your part. Gays are born and don’t just decide out of the blues that they are Gays. If Gays can be brought up in Heterosexual families, what makes you think that Children adopted by Gay Parents (same sex parents) will automatically be influenced by the sexual orientation of their parents.
Gays can be as loving, nurturing, and determined in raising their kids as a Heterosexual couples.
as long as homosexuality is concern i think its a unnatural thing. n if we say its a born thing i don’t know it might be. but we have to look in to this point dat why its only found in humans. i haven’t heard of homosexuality in animals. if its only found in humans then in my opinion its a product of our own imagination dat we think we r gays or lesbians.
n there is again no use of givin the names of great men n sayin dat they were gay. like alexander no one even know wat was his wife name or when he rule n they r calling him gay
yeah he might be gay but in other sense .
i don’t how how someone said the name of babur. most probably u would have rea in a history book writen by some westerner.
n yes there had been ppl who were punished for there orientation. Quran has also talked about one such nation which was destroyed for there deeds.
Naiko.. I think you wana discuss it in a scholarly light. Perhaps in more advanced versions of poststructualism. That will be very paradoxical. I think that even logocentrism have also failed to answer this.
Born or not born?
Science is very close to have an answer. Let’s ask NOVA for help.
Kohal that is just an assumption on your part. Gays are born and don’t just decide out of the blues that they are Gays.<<<
I agree that some ppl are born gay. When i say that 'some are born gay,' I also mean it that Allah may had intended us to be born that way. Now some of you better not jump to conclusions that i'm against Allah & his Words. I'm going to say what makes sense as to how Allah has made us, kay?:
Some of us may have been born with a hormonal imbalance -- where the testosterone amount could be a bit higher than normal (for a guy, that is). Cuz of this imbalance, you could be attracted to the same sex....I got this from a BioChem PhD lady... But, also, think of it this way:
- A guy & girl are attracted to each other, right? It's natural......to get feelings to the person you're attracted to. You can't help the feelings you get. It's just the matter on how you act according to those feelings..as in avoiding the bad stuff, etc.
- Similarly: a guy could get feelings for another guy. It's just the matter how you control those feelings, isnt' it?
If Gays can be brought up in Heterosexual families, what makes you think that Children adopted by Gay Parents (same sex parents) will automatically be influenced by the sexual orientation of their parents.<<<
It's not the sexual orientation influences which is the case here......it's the well-being of the child. Which leads to you saying:
Gays can be as loving, nurturing, and determined in raising their kids as a Heterosexual couples.<<<
Yeah... i know...they could love their children with all their life. But a mother & a father has specific laid-out duties for their children. Even though it's the 90's....parents' roles are changing with who supports the home financially & etc.....a mum is a mum & a dad is a dad with their specific roles to play in a family. I know in comical movies like The Birdcage displayed the totally confusing roles Nathan Lane played as a mum...then again, it's just a movie.
Know what i'm curious about?? Years from now, i'd like to know how those gay-couples' children in Hawaii come along as adults. Those children are basically the experimented 'guinea pigs' for the future society as to know what homosexual parented families are bringing in.
Kohal, I don’t think that Religion offers any impressive reasons on this issue. Look at the biblical philosophies, not only Gays, but also all non-believers are portrayed in a very negative light, and according to scripture, the punishments are harsh, for both Gays and non-believers.
We cannot assume that Children raised in same sex household will be any less human (psychologically, or otherwise) than any other children. It is our duty as a society to accept the fact that Gays should have as much right to be parents as anyone else. When society makes corrections along the way, everyone benefits. Only until a few years ago, Blacks in South Africa didn’t have a voice in their own affairs, to most White South African that was justified at that time. There are many other examples of peoples’ mindset in very many ways. Religious minorities are persecuted all over the world, and it becomes very natural for people to take a nonchalant attitude for keeping the status quo. Things only change when society makes bold decisions to confront issues. Some find answers and solitude in religion and in Holy Books, to me broad based public policies do more than any religion can or ever has.
I am totally in favor of Gays adopting children. I am also in favor of Lesbians bearing children through artificial means. We can not and we should not deny a basic human right to anyone regardless of his or her sexual orientation. I am personally willing to donate my sperm to any Lesbian who wants to bear a child.
Naik ji naming some famous people who were gays centuries ago means that this is not something new like some people try to make it. It is certainly not something that pervert Americans have invented. It was there all along.....Americans are only a bit open about the issue than others.
Firstly, are gays born with those tendencies? Possibly, yes...but how many are influenced by what they see? Let's use 2Pak as an example; he listens to gangsta rap and then he comes to Gupshup calling himself the Paki Pimpsta spouting stuff like "call the cops when you see 2Pak" etc. I'm sure he's a nice kid who will probably grow up to be an accountant, but you can see that the environment can have an effect.
So, the question is; is homosexuality something which should be promoted, and why?