what is teh average salary of a
captian
major
lt colobnel
colonel
(add others)
and is it plausible that “all” of them have their money through their family land and all?
It seems strange, because from what I know the lifestyle and the salaries dont match up.
The funny thing with the NAb right now is that bunch of these ppl are buying property in US.
what do you think?
same question for MNA/MPA types
Life style is a perk. They get a car, a house etc. FO officers get a house and land in Islamabad and surrounding areas. Police officers get a 3 man escort, a house in their district and much more. Most officers in the Pakistan Govt and Military get many perks.
I understand that, I am talking about having the ability to pay tuition at Ivy schools, buy million dollar homes in US etc.
one dude i knew, his dad could barely pay his tuition and expenses at a state uni in US and he was at a decent post in the Navy. I am suprised to see Army folks kids at Ivy schools and living it up.
Or is that a "perk" too?
Nope that is scholarship. All Ivy league schools are need blind. They accept you they pay for everything. Living it up aint tough in the US.
and i have the same question about politicians too, ppl like altaf hussein who really did nothave anything and all of a sudden were loaded.
do ppl not look at it and knwo right away that something is wrong?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Nope that is scholarship. All Ivy league schools are need blind. They accept you they pay for everything. Living it up aint tough in the US.
[/QUOTE]
CM
and "all" of these ppl get scholarships? do ivy schools also pay for their posh pads and toyota supras? :D
damn, I never saw that on my uni application form
It depends what location you come from. If you get into an ivy league school and are from say the CIS region. The schools also give you a monthly allowance. Pakistan might be such a country.
In swiss here CIS nationals are exempt from paying at my college.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
It depends what location you come from. If you get into an ivy league school and are from say the CIS region. The schools also give you a monthly allowance. Pakistan might be such a country.
In swiss here CIS nationals are exempt from paying at my college.
[/QUOTE]
U know tution and costs at ivy schools and allownces !!! it costs more than $ 50,000-60,000 for tution and living expenes a year..
Degas harvard is 38,000 a year last time i checked and they are need blind. They cover living, eating, entertainment and college supplies. They even give money on the side. All Ivy league colleges do that if they think you require it.
and all military personnel's kids are on full expenses paid scholarhips at all unis?
I dont see a real balance between our militry folks and politicians income and lifestyle.
could a COD officer buy a half a million pad for his son? :)
I was refering to Ivy league schools. With respect to the COD officer. He could be from a landed family, or be what you have being trying to discuss from the very start, a corrupt officer. The assumption is yours to make.
Till the 70's Civil servants and Military personnel were at an equal level. PCS, CSS officers used to be provided with land and plots as incentives of employment. (that was only for fairly senior officers though)
The Basic Pay Scale of An commisioned Army officer or Civil Servant lower grades (17-18) I am guessing would not exceed the 7,000-15,000 per month range. However in the Army officers case the subsidised house is many times either put on rent or sold of to supplement their income. Even so the money left is not enough to look after a family( it's quite sad actually if CSS or Army officers can't survive on those salaries how are Teachers and other service groups supposed to manage on the basic salary and no perks)
If you are talking corruption or high salaries in the Armed forces you have to focus on certain ranks and certain groups. One of the most lucrative(commisison wise) groups in the Armed forces is procurement.
The potential for kick backs is enormous and what's worse anytime a person commits an act, in this sector they are affecting the capacity of the Armed forces in case of a war.
The salary wise area is generally officers above the rank of colonel. Promotions above this rank can become highly political and often a lot of care is taken to ensure the officer is of a "good family", because the perks increase enormously (this is where the land and plots come in), they are also guaranteed a post retirement job in the civilian sector (or in these days pre retirement).
Lastly, some people (civil and Army) sell their connections to the highest bidder, and use their influence with politicians and business people to ensure they make a quick bundle (whats called conflict of interest in any other country). And last but not least you have Army people who made fortunes in the Afghan War and the massive amounts of Aid money that was pouring in the country at the time or those who had access to Intelligence funds to buy of politicians to get the "right results: in election time. This groups logic is very simple, these people (self styled patriots) are saving the country from people who think what they are doing is wrong. And anyone who thinks they are wrong is a traitor.
In the end though these people represent a tiny %age of the Civil Service and Army. The bulk of the officers civil and Military live a tough life.
These captains and the like don't make a heck of a lot. But what they do get are the frills. Their kids have access to excellent facilities (athletic, recreational, educational, batmans) and if you put monetary value on that these junior ranks rake in quite a bit of money too.
About seniors, I was talking to a guy whose dad is a big wig in the Pak army. and I asked him the same question. I was told that senior officers generals, colonels or any other post where the officer has some sort of a regiment of officers under him gets all the money budgeted for his command. He's supposed to dispense funds in the appropriate slots like salaries, mess etc etc. So, if he decides to swipe a couple of lakhs here and there no one finds out or cares to find out. At least that is the impression I got. But I guess, if the person was honest he would not be able to pay those unrealistic fees.
sambrilian i know a few sapoots of military folks, it always seems strange that even if it was a few lakh here a few lakh there, how can these ppl pay cash for $600K+ homes? it simply does not compute.
and yes some may be landowners but did the land always come before their military career or during. i dunno. however i cant see how everyone can be a landowner :)
Incidentally I know some cops that are that way too, but their pohanch is only at these things in pakistan so far from what I have seen.
I have studied in a university, which is run by the Pak military, NUST... (Zak was also a a grad student there)... I have studied as a civilian cadet, and have taken classes with GCs (Gentlemen cadets) and Captains... After interaction, I have seen how these people go on with such thin budgets...
However, when you go upto generals and brigs, their kids studying in IVy leagues like Fraudia said are not on scholarships, they are on Pakistan's khatta... Scholarships in these colleges are extremely limited when it comes to intl students, and I have seen lots of top brass send in their children there for studies, whereas many brilliant (less affluent) students had were denied the chance... In the US, there is no such thing as, if youre from Pakistan you get an extra allowance etc, be it Ivys...
Coming to the UK, the British Council in Islamabad has 10 positions to high achievers in O/A levels for undergrad studying in Britain, and each time the Pakistan Ed. ministry surprisingly leaves out the high 'straight A' achievers, and for some reason sends the lesser achievers, something to do with whose sons they are...
As for salaries, I will tell you what I know of, from the EME corps
GCs (under training) Rs.2,800 per month
Captains Rs. 8,500 pm
Majors Rs. 11,000 pm
Cols Rs. 15,000 pm
As for the facilities they get, dont even ask... They get a batman whose job is to polish shoes and prepare their 'wardiz'... Us becharey se yeh log itna kaam karwatey hain LOL
NUST... (Zak was also a a grad student there).
I was??
As for the facilities they get, dont even ask... They get a batman whose job is to polish shoes and prepare their 'wardiz'... Us becharey se yeh log itna kaam karwatey hain LOL
The Batman system should be finished off, best to give the Fauji's a salary increase!
I might be wrong here, but what I was told about the land guiven to senior Army officals is that it's given in areas cllose to the border with India so in case of war there supposed to be a reserve militia?
That reminds me, does anyone know what happened to that protest against Army Landlords on Okara?
Fraudia, per haps you should send a email out to NAB and maybe a newspaper mentioning the info about these self made millionaires?
I think the consensus here is the basic assumption i had, your average military officer are loyal committed ppl,but as you get to the top with the power in national matters coming in your hands the opportunities to get under the table cash increases.
The NAB started going afdter some of the big fish who had tens or hundreds of millions of this money from corruption, but i dont think they have really gone after the ones who have taken "small amounts" like a few million dollars :)
but guys where does this end, I have personally been sitting in gatherings in Pakistan where people are openly talking about how they can not pay tax and if and when the govt comes after them they will pay pennies on the dollar. The people present did not seem to be taken aback but were admiring the guy, maybe cuz he was from oen of the top families in Pakistan . but that is a whole diff topic.
I just dont understand how this can continue. I have seen too many smug B* here in US whose folks ahve rolled around in corruption but the children not only are unable to see it, theyare proud of teh fact.
Just once I hinted about the pay scales and cost of living and you will not believe the commotion it created :)
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Zakk: *
*NUST... (Zak was also a a grad student there).
I was??
As for the facilities they get, dont even ask... They get a batman whose job is to polish shoes and prepare their 'wardiz'... Us becharey se yeh log itna kaam karwatey hain LOL
[/QUOTE]
oh yar sorry, it was zaavia, I messed up the nicks :)
Fraudia; It's sad I know some people in the ME and PAF who are fine people, have lots of "family" money and could easily pull strings if they wanted too. Yet they are as clean as a whistle. There was this comment by social worker Akhtar Hameed Khan which explains pretty much everything in Pakistan (especially the story about refusing to pay Tax)
He said " the greatest problem Pakistan has is not economic, it's moral"
Spock: That's ok lol, I was really impressed with myself for a second !!
Zakk well said. Nobody pays taxes in Pakistan except if you are a govt employee. The tangay wala doesnt. The shop keeper doesnt. They bag all the money. If you bag all this money, we have to borrow from the IMF...
As for the NAB and military officers. I believe they have desired the extradition of 20 former officers from the US. The US wont hand them over. Also this aint galasnot. You cant just take away the foundations of society, as it has been built and start fresh.