Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
We had such separate laws in the United States not too long ago, when black people had to sit at the back of the bus. Separate but equal just doesn't cut it.
There was no pretension to equality during the segregation era...people of African descent were regarded as inferior, plain and simple. They were segregated because they were considered uncivil, and not to be trusted.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
** Rowan Williams, the most senior figure in the Church of England, said that giving Islamic law official status in the UK would help achieve social cohesion because some Muslims did not relate to the British legal system.**
Then why are they there?
It's tricky. Although the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are immigrants, there is a (obviously) huge first-born Muslim population. Among them, there are many who are conservative.
The argument of forced/voluntary exile may work for those who are transplanted to a country...but things get tricky for those who are first-born...one could argue if anyone that dares challenge the social status quo ( or refused to assimilate to it) is somehow worthy of kicking out...then the first to go should have been the hippies of the 1960's...
With regards to Shariah in the UK, I think the Bishop means things like interest-free banking (I presume there'd eventually be some need to regulate this), and the like...
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
It's tricky. Although the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are immigrants, there is a (obviously) huge first-born Muslim population. Among them, there are many who are conservative.
The argument of forced/voluntary exile may work for those who are transplanted to a country...but things get tricky for those who are first-born...one could argue if anyone that dares challenge the social status quo ( or refused to assimilate to it) is somehow worthy of kicking out...then the first to go should have been the hippies of the 1960's...
With regards to Shariah in the UK, I think the Bishop means things like interest-free banking (I presume there'd eventually be some need to regulate this), and the like...
This Bishop sounds like a wise person.....
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
if the British law is working fine and is ensuring justice, why would they want Sharia imposed?
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
If One Man can decide to Start a whole New religion in England....because He could not get the Divorce he wanted from his first wife..........
Is'nt that how the Church of England came into being because Henry VIII could not get a divorce from the Pope..............
So it is only expedient that Muslim Law be recognized because the Population has a need for it to be applied.....
Even India has separate Family Laws for Muslims*........OK that is due to existing Laws before India became a country**......:)*
Is this true? I wish one of the Indian guppies would confirm this. I always thought it was Rajeev Gandhi that made it so every religious group had their own separate laws satisfying them.
I wish there was uniform civil laws for all religious groups regardless of their religions instead of this setting so they are seen as the same and equal in the eyes of the law
Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Some elements within Islam are becoming real nuisances. They’re namely British South Asians that have nothing better to do but moan and groan about their own unambitious lives.
Meet shariah:
image source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=467588
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
omg thats sick :(
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Why would a Muslims woman in UK going through a divorce want to use Sharia law instead of British law?
for the same reason you go for a HALAL butcher and don't shop for STUN meat.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Ontario recognizes religious marriages! for Muslims and others:
Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.
Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.
"Polygamy is a regular part of life for many Muslims," Ali said yesterday. "Ontario recognizes religious marriages! for Muslims and others."
He estimates "several hundred" GTA husbands in polygamous marriages are receiving benefits. Under Islamic law, a Muslim man is permitted to have up to four spouses.
However, city and provincial officials said legally a welfare applicant can claim only one spouse. Other adults living in the same household can apply for welfare independently.
The average recipient with a child can receive about $1,500 monthly, city officials said.
Who knows this may spread in the whole of British Empire......:D
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
This is HT’s response to Archbishops proposal.
**Let Muslims establish the Shariah in their own lands! **
Friday, 08 February 2008
The Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams gave an interview to the BBC on 7th February 2008 in which he proposed that some aspects of Shariah law could be incorporated into English law.
The response to his comments have been vitriolic. The media provocatively reported his words that it was ‘unavoidable’ that Muslims would have Shariah law in the UK, opening a familiar attack on Islam. Prime Minister Gordon Brown entered the debate saying that laws in Britain should only be based on British values – although where lucrative profits for the City of London are concerned, he is happy to promote Britain as a centre for Shariah compliant finance. A typical response to the William’s interview on websites was: “Muslims are running away from this barbaric law which is practiced in their own countries, once here they want to bring this barbaric law with them. If they want this law they could go and live in a country that practices this law.”
The perverse irony is that the politicians who make policies that encourage such a hostile climate also make policies to prevent Muslims from establishing the Shariah in the Muslim world. The ‘war on terror’ was, in the words of Bush and Blair, to prevent the rise of a Khilafah and Shariah. The support for tyrants who crush all Islamic political opposition has continued for decades for the same purpose. Although Brown said that laws in Britain should only be based on British values, successive western governments have worked to force laws everywhere in the world to be based on secular liberal values.
It is the height of conceit that these politicians, who approved the bloodshed in Iraq and Afghanistan to export this secular system, cry about protecting Britain’s traditions and heritage, whilst obstructing the desire in the Muslim world to have laws that reflect their Islamic beliefs, heritage and system. It is this supremacist desire of western governments to enforce western secular values on the Muslim world that is the real problem in the world, and not a fabricated campaign of Muslims to enforce Shariah laws on the people of Britain. In fact, this fabrication of a campaign to establish Shariah in Britain is nothing more than part of a propaganda campaign to justify and fuel Britain’s global agenda to prevent the rise of the Caliphate, so as to secure its colonial interests.
To seek to organise marriages and divorce, inheritance, food regulations and personal financial arrangements within our community is not a campaign for the establishment of Shariah. It is to live our lives according to Islam, in a personal space. Yet, some amongst politicians and the media have sought to use this as another Muslim bashing exercise, encouraging an out pouring of abuse against Shariah, and comments that if Muslims want it, they should leave. These events only go to show the inherent intolerance of western liberal values. The irony is that the Islamic Khilafah state protected the rights of minorities and allowed minorities to live according to their laws within their personal lives and religious codes.
Moreover, whilst people will say they do not want to see Shariah punishments in Britain, it is rich of the critics in this society - with its high levels of theft, murder, rape and other crimes - that they lecture Muslims on their choice of law in the Muslim world.
Prejudice is not a new thing for many Muslims in Britain. Xenophobia and the inherent assumption of superiority is part of Europe’s tradition. Germany in 1930’s and Bosnia in 1990’s illustrate the worst of Europe’s treatment of minorities. The experience of Blacks and Asians, Jews, Catholics, the Irish and other minority communities’ show just how common bad treatment of minorities has been in the UK.
So how should Muslim’s respond?
We should realise that this media propaganda is a deliberate provocation. This is a means to set people against each other and create fitna (division). We should show the beauty of Islam and the Shariah in our lives and show how Allah has given us a sublime deen, which brings tranquillity to the heart and mind. Such an example, where the Shariah commands us to be good to our neighbours (regardless of race or religion), good to our elders, parents and teachers, to refrain from insulting people’s beliefs, is sorely needed. It stands in stark contrast with increasing individualism and selfishness, antisocial behaviour and disrespect, and the freedom to insult and persecute that so characterises western countries today.
In this climate of attacking and smearing Islam we must stand up as a united community and enter into a vigorous debate with the way of life in the west i.e. secularism. For it is not merely that they attack Islam, it is also that they are blind to the flaws that exist in this secular system that they export across the world. While they resort to abuse and insults we should follow the example of our Prophet (SAW) and show the flaws and wrongs of western secularism that has brought so much misery to the people of the world. Rampant materialism, a widening wealth gap, individualism, rape, child abuse, racism, occupation and oppression are the fruits of a world ruled by man’s freedom to do whatever he pleases. The secular age of man has been arguably the most bloody in human history.
Secondly, we should continue to join the work to establish the Shariah in the Muslim world. Britain is where so much anti-Shariah and anti-Islam propaganda is created and exported. We need to counter this propaganda by illustrating the great weaknesses in the secular model that is so often immorally exported at the barrel of a gun, or as a condition to humanitarian aid.
The Messenger of Allah (saw) and his companions, may Allah be pleased with them all, faced such propaganda and worse during 13 years in Makkah. They restricted their response to words, arguments and a battle of ideas without raising a finger in action. This is the battle that the enemies of Islam fear, and why they attack with smear, exaggeration, insults and hate speech.
Our goal, dear brothers and sisters, is to voice the message of Islam strongly to those around us, and to stay close to Allah (swt) seeking His Help at all times.
وَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَوْلاَكُمْ نِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ
And if they turn away [from righteousness], know that Allah is your Protector - [and] how excellent a Protector and how excellent a Helper! (TMQ al – Anfal 8:40)
Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain
29th Muharram 1429
7th February 2008
www.hizb.org.uk
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Is it possible that the Archbishop is simply trying to invite religion back into public/constitutional arena? If you can incorporate the elements of Jewish and Islamic law into the British constitution, nobody should oppose bringing the constitution in line with the practices and beliefs of the largest religious denomination in the country?
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
It should be known, that most muslims go through informal sharia courts all the time, for marraige, divorce, etc. they later legalise it through the courts should they wish to. hence Sharia is already in use in daily life.
What the Archbishop meant by his comments was to bring these informal courts already in practise within the legal institution, 1) probably to keep an eye on the ongoings of the community, and 2) to make it easier for the muslims by accepting their 'nikah' as and talaq as legit.
Regardless of whether this occurs or not, its interesting to note the uproar of ignorant folks who tend to remember thier petty british values when it comes to Islam. What they forget is, faith based laws for jews and catholic already exist and have done so for quite a while, but noone seems to quite remember that part when it comes to the 'one law for all' crap.
secondly, shariah law is not for everyone despite, what the media would like to have you believe, but only for those muslims who mutually agree to use it.
Thirdly; regardless of whether it comes within the british law or not, shariah will continue to be followed whereever it can, like it has been since muslims first came about.
Interesting debate stirred by the Archbishop, if nothing else, it brought out the dirty insects from the woodwork...
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Prejudice is not a new thing for many Muslims in Britain...The experience of Blacks and Asians, Jews, Catholics, the Irish and other minority communities’ show just how common bad treatment of minorities has been in the UK.
Likening the oppression of Jews and Blacks to the treatment of a violent and highly intolerant Muslim population? Get real. The Jews and Blacks wanted inclusion, Muslims want special and preferential treatment.
I think I've proven you dont read the rhetoric you copy and paste.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Muslims are running away from this barbaric law which is practiced in their own countries, once here they want to bring this barbaric law with them. If they want this law they could go and live in a country that practices this law.”
I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE. **
It is the height of conceit that these politicians, who approved the bloodshed in Iraq and Afghanistan
**I DISAGREE WITH ABOVE, with all the suicide bombers, seems all Muslim. WHo are these suicide bombers blowing up ? OTHER MUSLIMS. YUB , BLAME IT ON INFIDELS. ERR WEST.
In fact, this fabrication of a campaign to establish Shariah in Britain is nothing more than part of a propaganda campaign to justify and fuel Britain’s global agenda to prevent the rise of the Caliphate, so as to secure its colonial interests.
I DISAGREE WITH ABOVE. The extremists in Ontario ,, Canada tried to introduce SHARIAH LAW also. . stop the caliphate expansionism. ONTARIO SUCEEDED . :)
While they resort to abuse and insults we should follow the example of our Prophet (SAW) and show the flaws and wrongs of western secularism that has brought so much misery to the people of the world. Rampant materialism, a widening wealth gap, individualism, rape, child abuse, racism, occupation and oppression are the fruits of a world ruled by man’s freedom to do whatever he pleases. The secular age of man has been arguably the most bloody in human history.
*RAPE OCCURS IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES. IT'S A PRATICE OF MAD MEN AND THEIR SONS IN ALL RELIGIONS AND CULTURES. CHILD ABUSE, RACISM , OCCUPATION AND OPPRESSION ARE FAULTS IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES ALSO. THE EXPANSION OF ISLAM HAS BEEN ROOTED AND NOT ARGUABLY MOST BLOODY IN HUMAN HISTORY. *
CONCLUSION. YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THE WEST , THEN WESTERN VALUES AND LAW. WANT TO LIVE UNDER SHARIAH LAW, LOTS OF ISLAMIC COUNTRIES TO LIVE IN. WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO COME TO THE WEST WHO SUPPORT SHARIAH? I GUESS THE ISLAMIC LAWS OF ISLAMIC THEOCRATIC COUNTRIES REGARDING FINANCE ETC ARE NOT SO GOOD SOCIO-ECONOMICALLY AFTERALL. VIVA LAS VEGAS AND HOUSE, CAR, EDUCATION, DANCING, FREEDOM OF THOUGHT AND EXPRESSION, VIVA WEST.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
uberalles, it might hurt you to know that not a lot of Muslims support sharia arbitration
http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/opposing-sharia-arbitration-courts-in-uk/
read that.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Interesting debate stirred by the Archbishop, if nothing else, it brought out the dirty insects from the woodwork...
Indeed it has. Where have you been hiding? And what is the official Hezbollah position on this?
Why should citizens of UK go anywhere else? Muslims in the UK are like Hispanics in America, a significant, recently migrated voting bloc. Its bigoted to say to hispanic organizations "dont like this law, go back to mexico".
Not a relevant example. Hispanics help found the US. They have been a big part of American history. They have been here since the beginning and are part of the culture. Muslims have no such claims to British history and culture.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
Not a relevant example. Hispanics help found the US. They have been a big part of American history. They have been here since the beginning and are part of the culture. Muslims have no such claims to British history and culture.
we know that they are only politically significant when their numbers have increased to the level it is now. and the only reason their numbers are increasing at a disproportionate rate is because of immigration, people who were NOT a part of American history or culture before.
Florida politics is influenced to a large extent by Cubans . Do you feel they should go back to Cuba (from where many of them sought refuge from Castro) if you disagree with their political activism?
who are you to say Muslims are not a part of British culture? Every fried chicken shop in London is Halal! Hell 20 percent of the research group at my university is Muslim.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
cubans actually integrate to the us.
can't say the same about british muslims due to the number of extremists evident in their community.
Re: Archbishop of Canterbury wants Sharia law in Britain
i'd say wanting your religious laws to be a part of the legal framework of the country is actually reflective of a desire to be a proper part of the country.
you cant integrate if theres a group saying "go back from where you came from" everytime you propose adding something of your identity to the collective.