Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

[Niksik]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Saying ramzadan kareem is example of emulating a culture?

Normally, we desi people say Ramadan Mubarak. At least in the areas we come from :) Now we're hearing more of Ramdan Kareem. Like I said, nothing wrong, but it isn't Pakistani culture to say that... or maybe it is now. I have to catch up.

[Niksik]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Yeah...I know what you mean. I have a significant number of friends that were born and brought up in ME. But even they don't say Ramadan Kareem. And nobody I know calls sehri suhoor. I think I would feel lost if they did.

Getting used to it now :) It's all good.

[Southie]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Normally, we desi people say Ramadan Mubarak. At least in the areas we come from :) Now we're hearing more of Ramdan Kareem. Like I said, nothing wrong, but it isn't Pakistani culture to say that... or maybe it is now. I have to catch up.

Ramadan Kareem.

[Southie]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

It has always been ladki, lakdi. Everyone knows that.

[Southie]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@LP

Even today we look down on others for their choice of clothes, accent, preferred language etc and then we talk about freedom and tolerance

Looking down on others for whatever is not inconsistent with freedom.

[Niksik]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Ramadan Kareem.

It's a bit too late now Southie jee. How about you wish me at the start of next year's Ramadan?

[Southie]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

It's a bit too late now Southie jee. How about you wish me at the start of next year's Ramadan?

It's a deal!

[ajazali]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Normally, we desi people say Ramadan Mubarak. At least in the areas we come from :) Now we're hearing more of Ramdan Kareem. Like I said, nothing wrong, but it isn't Pakistani culture to say that... or maybe it is now. I have to catch up.

saying ramadan kareem is not a culture thing. if it was arab culture, it would say ramadan mabrook. The message of words ramadan kareem you received does not even convey the message of congratulation. anonymous and randomly composed message are so common in pakistan, you received one of those messages.

[Tempe5t]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@ajazali

saying ramadan kareem is not a culture thing. if it was arab culture, it would say ramadan mabrook. The message of words ramadan kareem you received does not even convey the message of congratulation. anonymous and randomly composed message are so common in pakistan, you received one of those messages.

Yup, kareem does not convey mubarak baad. It means generous or bountiful. And who doesn’t want a bountiful Ramzan? Urdu and Arabic have many many manyyy words in common. I’m sure brown folks have heard brown scholars and brown buzurgs say ‘Quran-e-Kareem’ or ‘Ramzan-e-Kareem’ or the attribute pairing of ‘raheem aur kareem.’ We should reserve our consternation for the day when our fellow brethren welcome Ramzan and Eid with hallelujah or mazel tov

[Guppshupper]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@teggy

My dear fellow Pakistani! You always seem to hop into conversation when it’s half-way through, to post almost the same message. Why don’t you contribute and let the rest of your fellow contributors know that you are in Pakistan, and based on what you experience within the country, such is or is not as it seems. That would be far more beneficial, and allow the rest of us to learn not to make assumptions. Please share your perspective instead of criticizing others for attempting to address what they may see as a possible “trend”. Your post may be the one that helps shed that misconception, but only if you make it known.

I apologise you feel offended for me hopping in and repeating the same thing .
However, had you gone through the thread you would have seen it (if you wanted to that is)
anyhow here it is - my same message as before where I am ‘‘contributing’’ (without criticizing) which you seem to have missed:

@Guppshupper

Being a resident of Pakistan ( I think i am one of the very few here) all this Arabization is blown out of proportion. This is not a significant trend.

Boys and Girls who have started wearing jeans/T-shirts is far greater than those who start wearing Abaya/Jubba.

People who start using english expressions/words in their speech is far far greater than those who incopoorate Arab words.

May be it is a thing with people who live in western countries - but it is NOT a trend in Pakistan.

I may be speculating here, but all this hoopla is due to combination of following:

1. Fear of pro-western thinking people that Islamization/Arabization would result in extremism
2. Shia/Barailvi vs Wahabi thingy
3. Urdu vs English vs Arabic linguistic thingy

@mahool

Arbification of Pakistan or Pakistani community. Two spearate topic.

Jubba culture is not popular in Pakistani. Urdu has many words from Persian, Arabic, Hindi and local languages. There is nothing bad to use new Arabic word in Urdu if word can adjust to tongue of common people. We Pakistanis are more Indian then Arab. We share their culture more than Arab culture.

Pakistanis in foreign land. They may adopt it openly. Absence of home country, thousands of miles away from Pakistani culture there are greater chance that you adopt foreign culture, you will adopt other cultures as you expose to different nationalities. Your mosque visit will open the door of diversity. Guy on right hand would be Algerian, guy on left hand would be Arab. Your parents influence, your friends includenc, your mosque’s influence. You will start communicating Arab-english with your fellow Moroccan . You will use Ramadan instead of Ramazan…

So, what is the problem?

@mahool

How many of you actually seen speaking of Urdu in Arabic accent?

@ajazali

It appears you dont know about pakistan. No saudi or arab culture is being followed. Show me example if any?
If anything, salfis in pakisan would follow Arab culture but they know culture is not Islam. Even Salfis who are almost a minority, being the great supporter of saudis dont follow their culture. Get some knowledge about Pakistan.

@chipships

So many misconceptions I must say. I already kinda know western folks have hatred towards Arabs. No one & I repeat no one is doing whatever BS has been mentioned in this thread about Pakistan. I don’t see any arabnization happening in Pakistan, don’t know from where you guys are getting all this from. Not in Pakistan but this Arabnization is surely happening in the UK, they are the one who forcefully use InshaAllah, MashaAllah, SubhanAllah & JazalAllah in every other sentence even when it is not required, they are the ones trying to emulate Arabs in terms of pronunciation, wearing hijab with different styles from different arab countries etc… if thats what arabnization is for you.

And my question to those who are talking crap, have you ever been to Pakistan? I highly doubt that. You guys have never been to Pakistan in your lives but you seem to know whats going on in there.

Great!

and the responses like these…

@PyariCgudia

Some of you guys are living in serious bubbles, including those living in Pakistan. It is very well known that the rich of Pakistan have no clue what goes on with the lower class and the middle classes in Pakistan.

.

@Pisiform

I don’t know wtf are you doing in Pakistan if you can’t walk around with your eyes open. Arabisation has been happening since a long time. Urdu words are being replaced by Arabic and people try to use arab accent and sound extremely dumb. I have seen couple of license plates that say “Al Bakistan” with arabic numbers. Everyone now ends their sentence with inshallah, mashallah, jazakallah etc. which they never used to before. I think you are either one of them or you are too naive. Arabization may not be as rampant but its happening.

And Wahabi/Salafi maybe minority but its gaining ground. That why its called arabization of Pakistan. If it was majority it had already been an Arab country. Just an FYI, stay off the cool aid

[Balthier]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I have seen "arabification" among Pakistanis in the west, but I have not seen it among Pakistanis in Pakistan (only talking about small towns and villages in Punjab here).

As long as people don't bully others into conforming to their cultural values, I don't see anything nothing wrong with people wearing hijab, growing beards, going clubbing, drinking moderate amounts of alcohol, wearing jeans etc. People must be free to make the choices they want. I have witnessed bullying from both types of people, and I honestly don't see the benefits of it.

[McPendo]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I agree with Shak that emulating a certain culture be it islamic or not doesn't make you closer to Allah. You must first strike the spark of religious fervor inside your heart and your actions will automatically appear in accordance with islamic law even if you wear a greek toga as your garb. Speaking arabic and dressing like the arabs has 0 credibility on your moral and ethical outcome. Allah won't ask you to correct your "Zeyr & zabr" on the final day. He'll ask you what good deeds have you done. It wouldn't matter even if you did them while speak cantonese with a slight Zimbabwean accent.

[rolla_coaster]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Hate is good. Who do you hate more?

But I didn't really notice any Arab following . People are doing whatever they want to do. I noticed more wanabee gora than wanabee arab

[arabianights]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I get a feeling some pakistanis really don't like arabs? How come if you don't?

[teggy]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@Guppshupper

I apologise you feel offended for me hopping in and repeating the same thing .
However, had you gone through the thread you would have seen it (if you wanted to that is)
anyhow here it is - my same message as before where I am ‘‘contributing’’ (without criticizing) which you seem to have missed:

and the responses like these…

I see your point, and for that I owe you an apology. I must have forgotten that you did share your views earlier on. Please continue sharing your perspective, because we can benefit from the perspective of someone living within Pakistan; it will help our outlook of things and correct any skewed ideas we have about how things happen there.

[Golgappay]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@arabianights

I get a feeling some pakistanis really don't like arabs? How come if you don't?

I think its all about personal experience, i have never heard bad stuff about anyone except people of Saudi, when people go to perform Hajj then they meet all sorts of people like cab drivers, hotel staff, shop keepers etc and every one who goes has horror stories to share from there. Its a shame because if you are in mekkah, how can you be rude to all these people coming to perform their religious obligation. I personally have good experience with Saudis, my teacher and two friends are from there.

[KnightKhalid]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I was reading this post, although old felt to give some thought,
Its true as said arabification, but remember.. this is always the case,

Y are we here writing in english? perhaps this thought never even hit your mind,

the fact is powerful, rich, and prestigious countries have and is always been imitated by the ones who are not, and such was the case when there was Englification of Pakistan, yet now ppl are so accustomed to it that all the law and constitution is in english,, why not complain of that? coz it has already been done and accepted,
If you read history you will see even more fierce resistance to english and its culture.. yet now its perfectly fine,

one thing they want to do is to convert urdu to latin writing as was done with turkish, and this worries me

and thus is happening now with arabic culture,
they maintain their outer prestige no matter what maybe inside, are always wearing perfumes atleast in gulf unlike in pakistan where when I go I say ppl use themselves as stinkbomb weapons, you are standing in a line and this stinking guy sticks coming ahead of you and you have no option but just to move away.

ppl and pollution notices all such, and naturally human nature attracts it self to what it sees as more superior,, hence u feel such..

but make no mistake Pakistan is more Englishfied then arab by all means and its also increasing by the day, why didnt anyone notice this? and why dont you hate that?

[Sheeda_Pistol_1]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

The vast majority of Sunnis in Pakistan are either Barelvi or Deoband (both of these movements started in India and have no origin in the Arab world). Most of the madrassahs in Pakistan belong to these two groups.

If there was arabization going on in Pakistan then people would be switching themselves to Ahl-i-Hadith (the primary Sunni mazhab in most Arab states including Saudia), but I dont see that happening in Pakistan. Ahl-i-Hadith are only the third largest Sunni group in Pakistan. Three years after this thread was created, I still dont see this happening.

All assumptions are false.

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

What a fun thread to read. The good sis PyariCGudia was typing up some knowledge when it came to Muslims in the West.

[KnightKhalid]

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

@Sheeda_Pistol

The vast majority of Sunnis in Pakistan are either Barelvi or Deoband (both of these movements started in India and have no origin in the Arab world). Most of the madrassahs in Pakistan belong to these two groups.

If there was arabization going on in Pakistan then people would be switching themselves to Ahl-i-Hadith (the primary Sunni mazhab in most Arab states including Saudia), but I dont see that happening in Pakistan. Ahl-i-Hadith are only the third largest Sunni group in Pakistan. Three years after this thread was created, I still dont see this happening.

All assumptions are false.

Ahl i hadith r in no way big in any arab country. They just have a big mouth piece due to support of Saudi gov for political reasons which have now been taken away, thus you will see a decline in them very quickly. Ahl I hadith was primary made as political tool.
Also the law implemented (intrepretaion) in Saudi courts is hanbali. Rest of all arab countries no where r they prominent other then Egypt. And in both cases it was gov funding and backing for political reasons. All other arab states r strictly traditional in fiqh.

anyhow arab and Islam r two different things and should not be mixed, the thread was about arab culture not religion Islam.