it is proven there were pre-dravidian austroloids and they are oringinal
inhabitants called pre-dravidians . then dravidians of indus valley
then aryans . now it is compleex misture of these population makes the
present day population.
My sweet indian friend "God" "urs or mine" bless u.
the day our society and the arabian society seems to have similarities I will be ashamed to call my self a pakistani . I dont want to sound judgemental but the saudi arabian / UAE society are the most (follow the vices)CORRUPT/ RACEIST/THEIVES/LIERS/HYPOCRITS/BACK STABBERS ever born on the face of the earth .
if u want me to quote examples I think u will never have a last page in ur thread.
rvikz, u keep saying you guys are sufferring because of us, how do you explain this?
Two Indians arrested after flight diverted
to Arkansas
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
s]
Below is are stories about two Indian men, Harinder Singh, 41, and Gurdeep
Singh Wander, 48, who were arrested WEDNESDAY
after their flight from Memphis to Las Vegas was diverted to Fort Smith,
Arkansas - “because of the men’s alleged suspicious behavior.”
Here’s one description of what happened:
"The dispute erupted when Wander locked himself in the washroom for what a
flight attendant thought was an unusually long time, then repeatedly
refused to leave, according to the complaint. After he finally came out,
Singh insisted he had to use the same washroom used by Wander, the
complaint said. That was enough to raise the suspicions of flight
attendant Deborah Summers. Summers told the FBI that in her training she
learned than an explosive device might be assembled from components
separate individuals might be able to carry through airport screening
points, the complaint said.
She also said she was intimidated by the men."
The two men could face upto 20 years in prison if convicted of
interference with a flight crew. They have not been charged with any other
crime at this time or of threatening to harm the plane.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Poodenay_Ki_Chutney: *
My sweet indian friend "God" "urs or mine" bless u.
the day our society and the arabian society seems to have similarities I will be ashamed to call my self a pakistani . I dont want to sound judgemental but the saudi arabian / UAE society are the most (follow the vices)CORRUPT/ RACEIST/THEIVES/LIERS/HYPOCRITS/BACK STABBERS ever born on the face of the earth .
if u want me to quote examples I think u will never have a last page in ur thread.
[/QUOTE]
instead of saying the arabs are the worst people, take a look at urself. the arabs (khalij) judge pakis as pimps, who deal in business of drugs, and not just arabs, pakis are famous for being one of the uncivilised people.... so dont pick on people whn u dont knw ur identity....... dont judge everyone by some few.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by reza khan: *
instead of saying the arabs are the worst people, take a look at urself. the arabs (khalij) judge pakis as pimps, who deal in business of drugs, and not just arabs, pakis are famous for being one of the uncivilised people.... so dont pick on people whn u dont knw ur identity....... dont judge everyone by some few.
[/QUOTE]
And what makes you dirty indians any better?
Honestly the way you sick *******s have attacked Majestic, i personally think there is no difference between you and those white supremist Europeans and Americans who say Islam is a terrorist religion and all muslims are bad. None of you show respect or tolerance for another person.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
you are the one who said you dont like southerners since they are dark
compared pakistanis. how come bangadesh and west pakistanis cant
live under one religen ? why still indian muslims are still called mujahirs?
[/QUOTE]
rvikz, Pakistan too is a composite of many races that entered its territory and made it its home, and that means that in each one of us runs the blood of the earliest inhabitants of the region who were far more superior culture and technology wise than any other people of that time save probably the sumerians and egyptians (both of whom were on parity with them). In Iran too the earliest inhabitants the elamites and brachycephals and sumerians would be absorbed by other races that would sweep down on them.
Hence it is not our ancestors that did anything to your ancestors, cuz our gene pool is way different from what theirs was.
The seperation of bangladesh was much more complex than mere cultural differences and had largely to do with th eincompetence of many idiots in power.
As for muhajirs, they are called as such only in karachi, and they themselves prefer the label now but urdu speaking is more preferred than muhajir.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by reza khan: *
btw the moguls were not in an area in iran and afghanistan, but they were descendents of mongols and babaur himself was a descendent of chengis khan. they were nomads and moved about places... the turks of central asia ,turkey and moghals thus were linguistically and ethnically related toeachother..... thas why even today a kazakh, a turkish and an uzbek from afghanistan could understand eachother..........
[/QUOTE]
the steppes of central asia would send waves of nomads all over the world of various races and mixtures of races till the time of mongols. BTW, babur was Turk becasue he was desendant of tamarlane from father side and of chengiz khan form his mother's side. But he preferred mongol identity because it was more pretigious than turk who had become vassals to the mongol khans.
for uzbeks, kazakhs and others though linguistically they are similar, it does not mean they are all one homogenous people. Turks of different region have different histories. Stalin would see them all as turks as one people because they spoke different dialects or versions of the uralic altaic liguistic family. But thats how he destroyed many a cultures by pitting one against the other.
Turkish people from turkey, speak seljuk/uthmani turkish but the people themselves are a complex mixture of various races, who overtime have learned only to speak turkish: phyrgeans, lydians, hittite, turks and many others turkified people who inhabited that land. Same goes for uzbeks and kazakhs. Most of Azeri turks look more like persians than say kazakhs. Each people depending on the region and the subsequent intermingling with other people comprise that nationality.
Dear Majestic, I assure you most of Pakistanis are very freindly and hospitable people and love islam and their brethren in islam. Potty mouthed illetrates can be found in every nation unfortunately.
It is ture that arabs of today have much to learn, remeber and catch up like most of muslims and 3rd world does, but it goes with out saying that much of todays human progress owes a LOT to the arabs.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sultan Toora: *
the steppes of central asia would send waves of nomads all over the world of various races and mixtures of races till the time of mongols. BTW, babur was Turk becasue he was desendant of tamarlane from father side and of chengiz khan form his mother's side. But he preferred mongol identity because it was more pretigious than turk who had become vassals to the mongol khans.
for uzbeks, kazakhs and others though linguistically they are similar, it does not mean they are all one homogenous people. Turks of different region have different histories. Stalin would see them all as turks as one people because they spoke different dialects or versions of the uralic altaic liguistic family. But thats how he destroyed many a cultures by pitting one against the other.
Turkish people from turkey, speak seljuk/uthmani turkish but the people themselves are a complex mixture of various races, who overtime have learned only to speak turkish: phyrgeans, lydians, hittite, turks and many others turkified people who inhabited that land. Same goes for uzbeks and kazakhs. Most of Azeri turks look more like persians than say kazakhs. Each people depending on the region and the subsequent intermingling with other people comprise that nationality.
[/QUOTE]
Your wievs seem interestingly. Indeed almost all turks have different appearance from each other. Noone resemble each other. As you said there were phyrgeans, lydians, hittites, urartus, likyas in turkey before turk nomads came here in 1000s. And as if all of them dissapeared. You comented this situation as they were turkifed. May be you are right, I do not know. According to almost all historical sources there happened no massacre in turkey at that time and nomad turks were few but those native nations were too much crowded. Your hypothesis seem right in this respect. But I can not find answer to these questions. Turkish culture is not a dominant culture, actually turks adapted the society where they go and quated their cultures. For ex, although persians and arabians were under control of turkish empires there are almost no turkish word in persian and arabic but on the contrary there are too many persian and arabic words in turkish. When sultan Muhammad conqured Istanbul he quoted byzantium naval (sea) Law, you can see greek traces even in islamic architectural structures in turkey. I mean nomads turks did not have too particular or powerfull culture that could turkify the native ppl you mentioned. Those native ppl had too famous civilizations. Then how could they turkify them if your wievs are true?Actually there are too many muslims from different ethnics in turkey whose ancestors migrated in 1850s (chechen, caucasis, circassian, laz, bosnian, bulgarian, albanian and so on) and they identify themselves as turks. Actually noone interests with his or her ethnical background here and they regard themselves as turks. There are all kind appearances among turks (even there are black turks). This is only my opinion; Many historicans said thet before turkish troops appeared in turkey, many sufi darwishs came alone here and they made native ppl muslims. Since those natives saw only turks as muslims they could not distinguish beeing muslim from beeing turk and they changed also their ethnical identnty with their religion. The other fact that is bizarre is that there are many villages armanian, kurdish, arabic, greek suryani, georgian in turkey so far. And noone of them intermingled each other as you said. They existed in here for hundreds here. Then why were not they turkified? As to linguistic, I can easily understand uzbek and kazakh with my turkey turkish. azari is entirely same with turkey turkish since azaris, turkoman, gagavuz and turkks of turkey are belonging OGHUZ bransh of turks.
Some westerns accuse turks collecting beautiful european girls to marry by force and they say this is why many turks are blond :) ý heard with my own ears in Topkapi palace in Istanbul, a foreign tourist guide was describing Harem part in that palace as it was a part where most beautiful european girls were prisioned in there for turkish boys in ottoman time, only Allah knows the reality but these claims seemed too noncence to me :) some arabians accuse turks presenting islam as if it's only aim is to war since european meet with only turks as muslim several ages they conceived muslim only like warrior turks :) And as to changiz khan, mongols are taught as ancestors of turk in history lessons in here and the name of changis and babur are too many popular and previalent among ultra-nationalist turks in turkey. I still could not understand why they are priding with changis khan :) take care...
Galatasaray,
That is soo interesting that you said that, and it is true there are Arabic/Farsi words in Turkish but you will never find Turkish words in Arabic/Farsi. The Turks did occupy many of the Arab land and they did leave many traces behind as to many things. In some Arab countries there are still many Turkish cultured left behind but in other places its gone completely. The Turks ruled Yemen for many years and if you see
some of the Yemeni designs you would see what the Turks brought in with them. But you are right Turkey is made up of all sorts of people.
By the way, you seem to know soo much about Turkey, may I ask how is that so?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Majestic: *
Galatasaray,
That is soo interesting that you said that, and it is true there are Arabic/Farsi words in Turkish but you will never find Turkish words in Arabic/Farsi. The Turks did occupy many of the Arab land and they did leave many traces behind as to many things. In some Arab countries there are still many Turkish cultured left behind but in other places its gone completely. The Turks ruled Yemen for many years and if you see
some of the Yemeni designs you would see what the Turks brought in with them. But you are right Turkey is made up of all sorts of people.
By the way, you seem to know soo much about Turkey, may I ask how is that so?
[/QUOTE]
Salaam Majestic, are you from Yemen? Yemen is indeed has magnificient structures in Sana as I saw on Tv. It said that they were the first skyscrapers in world history. Also it seemed interesting that almost all boys are carring small daggers in Yemen. Many of the Turkish songs are about Yemen. Because there was a proverb that "whoever goes yemen will not return", too may ottoman soldiers became martyr in Yemen. One of that song was just like this: "Did you think this army marchs are coming from a wedding, did you think that moon star flag is a bride, did you think that whoever goes Yemen comes again....". Actually Yemenis are considered as most honourable and warrior arabs among all arabs by Turks. Friend, actually since ottoman was not turkish empire (according to me) I am not sure whether turks occupied and ruled arab lands. For ex; most of the pashas were greek origin, all of the ambassadors were greek, most of the naval commanders were greek(surely muslim greeks)... I mean it was composed of many nations. But they were all considered as turks by arabians in ottoman time. Also the main part of ottoman soldiers YENICERIS were muslim serbian, greek, bulgarian, romanian, macedonians. Also 1/3 of the last ottoman parliament were arabs, actually as I read in 1900s arab officers in ottoman army were crowded than turkish officers. These were all because nationalism were foreign term according to ottomans. The most famous grand wazir SOKULLU was a son of ordinary village priest. Sokullu established the most famous bridge ( drina bridge: there is a novel about it which gained nobel price) near his village SOKULLOS and the other wazirs were actually greeks and circassians. Also arabian culture influced turk culture too much. The caravanserais were copied from Abbasi and Amavis, You can see arabic alphabet in all historical structures in turkey. Westerns can not distinguish turkish music and arabic music. turks learned water-pipe from arabs, you can see water- pipe cafes in all corner of istanbul. Also the most known desert BAKLAVA is most popular both among arabs and turks. Arabs not only influenced pakis but also turks and persians as I observed. ahh as to your last question, I am from Turkey, that is why I know a bit about these subjects. Latsly the city of HUS of yemen passes a lot in songs since there happened to strict wars between IMAM YAHYA and OTTOMAN SOLDIERS at there. Take care....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Galatasaray: *
"Did you think this army marchs are coming from a wedding, did you think that moon star flag is a bride, did you think that whoever goes Yemen comes again....".
[/QUOTE]
Merhaba,
Yes, I am from Yemen. Its funny that you mentioned that :), when we were in Turkey last, we were in this one taxi cab and the cab driver was asking us where we are from and all and we said Yemen, and he said that his great grandfather is buried in Yemen. And I do feel some heat between some Arabs and Turks at times, and most Arabs (non Yemeni) told us this before we left for Turkey but when we got there and they asked us where we are from and we said Yemen they kept giving us 2 thumps up :). There are many Yemeni familles that have Turkish origins in them. And you are right it was mostly Greek, Arabic has a few Greek words, like a lot of Arabs use the word "Efindi" and so on. And Arabs did influence the Turks and vise versa. Yes, that is true Yemen was the home of first skyscrapers in world history, in the city of Hadramout. This is a very famous city, you hear about it in the Quran and so, it is the home of rich entrepreneurs, the origin home of Ibn Khaldun and also the Sultan of Brunei :).
I even heard Rumi mention Yemen a few times in his Poems and as for Imam Yahya, if I start talking about him this reply would not only be a page long :).
Allaha ismarladik
Have I done something wrong, bro? 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Galatasaray: *
Your wievs seem interestingly. Indeed almost all turks have different appearance from each other. Noone resemble each other. As you said there were phyrgeans, lydians, hittites, urartus, likyas in turkey before turk nomads came here in 1000s. And as if all of them dissapeared. You comented this situation as they were turkifed. May be you are right, I do not know. According to almost all historical sources there happened no massacre in turkey at that time and nomad turks were few but those native nations were too much crowded. Your hypothesis seem right in this respect. But I can not find answer to these questions. Turkish culture is not a dominant culture, actually turks adapted the society where they go and quated their cultures. For ex, although persians and arabians were under control of turkish empires there are almost no turkish word in persian and arabic but on the contrary there are too many persian and arabic words in turkish. When sultan Muhammad conqured Istanbul he quoted byzantium naval (sea) Law, you can see greek traces even in islamic architectural structures in turkey. I mean nomads turks did not have too particular or powerfull culture that could turkify the native ppl you mentioned. Those native ppl had too famous civilizations. Then how could they turkify them if your wievs are true?Actually there are too many muslims from different ethnics in turkey whose ancestors migrated in 1850s (chechen, caucasis, circassian, laz, bosnian, bulgarian, albanian and so on) and they identify themselves as turks. Actually noone interests with his or her ethnical background here and they regard themselves as turks. There are all kind appearances among turks (even there are black turks). This is only my opinion; Many historicans said thet before turkish troops appeared in turkey, many sufi darwishs came alone here and they made native ppl muslims. Since those natives saw only turks as muslims they could not distinguish beeing muslim from beeing turk and they changed also their ethnical identnty with their religion. The other fact that is bizarre is that there are many villages armanian, kurdish, arabic, greek suryani, georgian in turkey so far. And noone of them intermingled each other as you said. They existed in here for hundreds here. Then why were not they turkified? As to linguistic, I can easily understand uzbek and kazakh with my turkey turkish. azari is entirely same with turkey turkish since azaris, turkoman, gagavuz and turkks of turkey are belonging OGHUZ bransh of turks.
Some westerns accuse turks collecting beautiful european girls to marry by force and they say this is why many turks are blond :) ý heard with my own ears in Topkapi palace in Istanbul, a foreign tourist guide was describing Harem part in that palace as it was a part where most beautiful european girls were prisioned in there for turkish boys in ottoman time, only Allah knows the reality but these claims seemed too noncence to me :) some arabians accuse turks presenting islam as if it's only aim is to war since european meet with only turks as muslim several ages they conceived muslim only like warrior turks :) And as to changiz khan, mongols are taught as ancestors of turk in history lessons in here and the name of changis and babur are too many popular and previalent among ultra-nationalist turks in turkey. I still could not understand why they are priding with changis khan :) take care...
[/QUOTE]
Salam galatasarayi bro,
Its been a long time since i last saw your post. Your cultural knowledge as aleays is huge and helpful. in the above you said that Turks ruled over the arabs and persians, but asfar as I knew Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Jordan, parts of Saudi Arbia, egypt andyemen were under Turkish control, bu never pars of Iran or Persia as it was called at that time. You also mentioned Jan nesaris. The jan nesari word in perian means life layers, and truly they were ready to lay their lives. Again nice to read your commnents..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by reza khan: *
Salam galatasarayi bro,
Its been a long time since i last saw your post. Your cultural knowledge as aleays is huge and helpful. in the above you said that Turks ruled over the arabs and persians, but asfar as I knew Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Jordan, parts of Saudi Arbia, egypt andyemen were under Turkish control, bu never pars of Iran or Persia as it was called at that time. You also mentioned Jan nesaris. The jan nesari word in perian means life layers, and truly they were ready to lay their lives. Again nice to read your commnents..
[/QUOTE]
Salaam Reza Bro, How are your lessons in Essex University go? Insallah everything is OK for you. Thanx for your kind words, your deep knowledge also helps me a lot. As to persians, well as you know persian area was under control of seljuk turks for many ages, their capital city REY was near Tahran. Aslo SAFAWI state that was shia and had an interesting tasawwuf mentality was a turkish state whose capital city was TEBRIZ. Also Ghazne and Karahan states(turk) ruled persian areas. Also AKKOYUNLU, KARAKOYUNLU states were among some turkish state which ruled persian areas many years. Besides, Iran was beeing ruled by KACARLI (may be I do not remember their exact name) family till 1900s who were turks and british occupied Iran and killed most of them and they appointed a persian shah family (which were eradicated by Humayni after several years) instead of them. But interestingly these turkish states were influnced by persian culture a lot. The famous grand wazirs of these states were persians. For ex, the famous grand wazir NÝZAMULMULK who established most famous sunni madrasas was persian and TUGRUL BEY was padi shah at that moment. Also although these states were turks (especially their armys were completely turks), the linguistic and official language of these states were persian. As you know jalaladdin rumi lived in the capital city of ANATOLIAN SELJUK city and he wrote Masnawi in persian like all other seljuk poems. When famous ottoman padi shah SELIM who was first khalifah among ottoman padi shahs overcame SHAH ISMAIL and occupied his capital city tebriz ppl thought that turks overcame persians but in reality Shah Ismail's army was completely turkoman wariors and Selim's army was overwhelmingly European originated (not turks) muslims. History is interesting indeed. Also SELIM occupied Egypt and eradicated MAMLUK state which were turks also. It is interesting that in history pakistanis, Iranians, Arabians and turks had too many close relations and they intermingled each other much. As I heard urdu has a lot of arabic and persian word also turkish has too many arabic and persian words because of these kind of close relations. What does JAN NESARIS means? Did you mean sufi derwishes? take care friend it is nice for me to see and read your post again after a long time...
Salam,
As usual your knowledge shows the interest and importance of the history for everone. By Jan nesaris I meant YENICERIS. Jan in persian mans like life and nesar means to lay..There are many words in urdu of turkish origin. Actually urdu itself means arm or wing. baji, qorma, kofte, qainchi, tamancha, barut, banduk, qalash are some common words in urdu from turkish. There are many more. talk to ya sometime at chatline.,