its calmed down a bit on this thread may be we can now look at something
I was not willing to discuss this with Psyah before, to protect him from the risk of apostatizing but its been brought up and Psyah has gone the wrong way on it. So my reason for declining previously is gone. But there is takfir on these issues, and to uphold the takfir is not being takfiri, takfir applies where it does. There is no ‘‘oh we are upon this and we feel ok, or there is loads of people upon this so nobody should apply takfir because it is takfiri’’ Takfir applies where it does, and if it was wrongly applied it bounces back to the one who applied it
Tantamount = equivalent in seriousness to; virtually the same as
Intent to disparage is not taken into consideration, with this particular charge. Just saying something bad is kufr
Quran states: If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): “We were only talking idly and in play.” Say: “Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?” Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. (9:65-66)
Translation: Imam Muhammad bin Sahnoon said: There is consensus (ijma) amongst ulama that anyone who insults the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and finds his defects then such a person is “KAFIR”
“…whosoever doubts in Kufr of such a person then he/she commits kufr himself..”
“…**this is “MADHAB OF ALL 4 IMAMS” **Ishaq bin Rahwiyah and others have mentioned this Ijma..”
**Imam Ibn Abideen (rah) **narrates from Allama Ala’i (rah): Whosoever becomes Kafir by abusing any of the prophets then he should first be killed as an Hadd (capital punishment) and his repentance will not be accepted in “Mutlaqqan terms” however If he abuses Allah then his repentence will be accepted because that is amongst the Haqooq of Allah and to abuse the Prophet (Peace be upon him) amongst Haqooq of mankind. Whosoever doubts in the tornment and kufr of such a person then he is Kafir himself/herself [Hashiya Dur ul Mukhtar, (3/440)]
**or he might lower his rank, the honour of his lineage, the extent of his knowledge or his asceticism, or deny a famous matter reported from him which has come by many paths of transmission with the intention of refuting the report,**or say something insolent and ugly or of a cursing nature in respect of him. However, the state of this individual indicates that he does not mean to censure the Prophet nor to curse him but that ignorance, discontent, drunkenness, carelessness, arrogance or hasty speech has led him to say what he has said.
"…The judgement in this case is the same judgement as that applied to the first individual. Such a person is killed without hesitation since no one is excused for disbelief by ignorance or by claiming a slip of the tongue or by any of the things, which we have mentioned if his intellect is basically sound…"
Their Aqeedah had gone bad or had always been bad. shah ismail, upon whom there is less takfir! is not generally remembered as a Kaffir because there was a rumor that he had made tauba before dying. So whoever you are protecting did not even do this. Other scholars may not have given them the chance but Al-Mujadid Ala-Imam did.
There is no tawhid without Risalat, and if another tawhid was invented it would be non muslim. So using protection from Shirk is not an excuse
entering! what now?! this is the reason of their existence, these matters are all from their beginnings and before that in who they took as Imam. You sound like Gibril Haddad, and he is wrong, carefree and a moderate
There is quiet a few so called shaykhs around these days that seem to be moderate and denying what was passed in the past. The reason for this is the increase in deobandi influence, and the decrease in quality of so called celebrity ulema. They are trying to give something that both Sunnis and deobandis would be happy with! a Balancing act for their fame and popularity but that’s not Islam. This is matter which needs the wrong to be forbidden! Takfir if incorrect bounces back, so these shaykhs if they speaking on a matter should know what they are talking about, and be able to apply the Shariah