Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

So ... You are saying the so called fully symbolic Qur'an in this verse is not to be taken symbolically and it is a literal thing ... That when Allah (SWT) says Be that thing Is ... And when that thing comes into existence it is in line with science and evolution? Just want to confirm if this statement is literal or not ... And if so ... Is this not describing a physical process without being in and of itself a statement for guidance ...

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Without taking sides on evolution in general, I would like to comment on 'Kun Fayakoon'.

Allah says Be and It happens. If you read the Quran closely, you will see it is not like things happen on a blink of an eye. It means, it starts happening. takes it due course to evolve into a developed form. Allah gave example for Jesus' birth with creation of Adam who was created by the 'Kun'. We all know that in the case of Jesus(as) it only started happening and he evolved into a complete human baby taking the due course.
Similarly, heavens and earth are not created suddenly but it took six days (six periods) to complete the process of their creation.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

I saw this video & thinking atheist's video is based on provable science/scientific methods where other is nonsense.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

for creationist, may be the atheist video is non-sense?

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Peace kchughtai

Please stop confusing the issue ... We are talking about evolution (as in speciation) not stages in the growth of an embryo ... That you have so poetically written here as evolved.

The fact is his mother Maryam (AS) provided the egg, or may be just the womb and either the completely fertilised form was planted in her or the male genes were miraculously implanted in her.

These tiny things would be miraculously Created ...

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Some things, particularly those concepts that were beyond the understanding of the Arabs had to be symbolic for thm to understand. Other concepts can be more straightforward, such as God being the Creator of all things. The details of that creation are what is up for debate. So if we agree that God created, the question is at what level. Evidence tels us that evolution was the mechanism of creation here on earth. God may have created the spark that ultimately created the earth and humanity, perhaps through divine will. The creation of that original spark does not detract us from the consistancy of biological evolution here on earth, since the creation of the Universe is a seperate issue all together. Our debate was in regards evolution as it pertains to biological organisms here on earth, not the birth of the Universe itself.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Peace kchughtai

To you 'kun fa yahoon' means exactly what then? So the creation of mankind came about in a gradual way through many generations spanning hundreds of thousands of years and this to you means .... That Allah says to it "Be" and it is ... This is an outright lie ...

The kuffaar of early Arabia ...were being told something to their understanding ... Both the early Muslims and through time until now we know what this terms means and you are saying it means a gradual occurrence.

Well I'm not surprised ... For a person who believes the Dajjal destruction at the hands of Isa (AS) also hapepens gradually .... Five khalifas and still no end to Dajjal ...

It means as soon as Allah (SWT) says something to "Be" it is Willed into existence without delay ... Each and every moment is being willed into creation and willed to destruction for the next moment ... By Him ...

When you look at the verses of the Quran ... They have an apparent meaning and a deeper more technical meaning ... But the beauty of the Qur'an is that the inner, deeper, technical meaning does in NO compromise the apparent meaning ... Here you are forcing this meaning and creating a big problem with the verse in its apparent state.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Med911 ... How difficult is it to understand evolution? And if was something to be revealed for a later time ... Then it should be something compatible with the other meanings through time ... And there are many references in Hadith ... I will check up inshaAllah and ask your further questions

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution … Or unkind dismissal?

Well, Jinx gave you anwer by another video.

To me the video you posted was good in narration and video graphic technique only.

Now my original question remains.

There are two groups of people among those who believe Evolution.

One: Completely opposed to religion.

Other: Does not discard the concept of presence of God.

Who to believe?

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

There has been a lot of discussion in detail on Evolution and so much that this forum has literally become Evolution versus Creationist battle ground.

Please refer to other threads where I already answered many points against it.

Simply speaking: The 'evidences' for evolution are merely evidences of genetic mutations and adaptations and many other so called evidences with , maybe, could be, possibly etc. words attached.

These are just assumptions and never have been proven at the standard what you think science itself claims.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

You continue to mislead people by posing as a scholar and trying to pose that you have conclusively falsified the "fact" of evolution in the prior threads.. probably the world science community does not recognize a genius like you.. and they are not nominating you for nobel prize because of their prejudices against you..

Mr. Genius,

Evolution is fact.. recognized by the world science community and reputable educational institutions..

Explained by a theory which is not conclusive. What you criticize is the theory.. but you haven't been able to falsify the "fact" of evolution. May be the theory does not present as conclusive evidence as per your own personal liking.. probably you would like to see the speciation evidence in a laboratory.. but that is your outlook totally different from the views of world's science community. They continue to accept evolution as a "fact" and theory of evolution to be a likely scenario to explain this undeniable "fact' of evolution..

Ghost14 is rightly pointing out the reasons why science community of the world accept evolution as a "fact". Geological history of the world, genetic drift, evidence of natural selection and numerous other evidences have led the science community to accept evolution as a "fact", and your mullah arguments will not change the "fact" of evolution..

Stop misguiding people with these "may be", "could be" "possibly" etc.. all these words are from the theory of evolution.. the improvement of theory will not change the fact of evolution.. theory of evolution is becoming more and more conclusive as more and more evidence is getting available...

It's evident from your posting patterns that your understanding of science is not higher than middle school level.. and your rantings about 'theory" reflect a complete lack of understanding about how science works around theories and facts..

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Peace yazdi

The problem with evolution is that it is not falsifiable ... In order to be scientific we were looking for some sort of a falsification test .... Anyway there is digression in this thread ... This thread is about why evolution can be seen as compatible with Islam ... Or in fact with closer scrutiny we will discover that evolution undermines Islam.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

The concept of Creation is so fundamental in Islamic belief ... With those who are claiming evolution is compatible with it are turning upside down the various insights of the scholars and the understanding of the early Muslims. (May Allah be Pleased with them)

Is it true that the Qur'an has nothing to offer on the reality of our environment ... Is it all supposed to be taken as a glorious metaphor? With nothing to do whatsoever with physical reality ???

Let's find examples to sugges the case either way ... Med911 is presenting a convenient argument an apologetic that is bending so far backwards ... It will break the back of the Islamic belief system.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Islam is a religion.. not a doctrine of science. I have explained my view point several times and there is no question that I will try to check the evolution or any other science's compatibility with the religion. So the question of giving arguments in the favor or against do not arise... therefore I have tried to stay away from this thread.

I was just replying to a poster who was posing that he has added some new science discovery on the subject of evolution in other threads of this forum. The intention of my post was to keep the record straight..

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Yes and I said the problem with evolution is that it is a non-falsifiable dogma ... If it is scientific then what things do we need to see or perform a viable experiment in order to disprove the theory?

Secondly, Islam is a way of life ... And the Qur'an is the truth ... No doubt ... Means not at any level ... The verses used to explain to us "Do you not look at ..." so and so surroundings when it uses this language it is appealing to our scientific minds ... To investigate ... It means that there is synergy with science here ... By separating science from Islam we are secularising it ... This has dangerous political ramifications as well as religious ones ... When it warns us not to tamper with the Creation of Allah (SWT) we may become blind to what It is asking from us ...

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Well you consider it a dogma.. it's your personal opinion which is contrary to widely accepted "fact" by the science community of the world.

The problem with your story telling is you continue to confuse the "fact" with "theory". You want some laboratory evidence done in a few seconds which could verify or falsify the "theory" of evolution without which you will not recognize the "fact" of evolution. You just want the evidence of your personal liking and consider the overwhelming evidence accepted by world's scientific community and reputable educational institutions as a piece of trash.

There are people in mental asylums who consider themselves Charlie Chaplin or Einstein. We don't consider them as good comedian actors or scientist of Einstein repute no matter how fiercely they believe. In the same way world will continue to believe reputable scientist and educational institutions.. and will continue to consider your uttering as sheer non-sense specially in the matters where science is involved. It's clear that your field of expertise is largely theology and it will be better if you stick your arguments to theology instead of challenging the world reputed educational institutions like Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Oxford etc. with your science credentials.. who consider evolution as a "fact" and valid "science".. to be taught in these respectable institutions..

Any way please refrain from using your invented words for evolution like "dogma".. You can continue with your adventure of verifying evolution through scriptures.. This subject is not particularly my field of expertise. Good luck with your attempt of trying to bring Jack out of the box..!!!

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Psyah, actually evolution is verifiable & it happens at much faster phase on micro level than at macro level. For example, on micro level when bacterias and viruses become resistance to vaccines or antibiotics overtime & only resistant strains survives...that is an example of evolution. That is something that is observable/measurable, where on macro level it takes millions of years for evolutionary changes to talk place.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

some people know so much about god...

stop pulling crap outta nowhere.

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

hmmm...someone is very touchy here. We had a long discussion before in a better and nicer way. Just relax!

You may wish to agree with few idiots who call themselves as 'scientists' or 'evolutionist' that is your business, not mine.

I have no intention to make you stop believing in myths.

You said 'becoming' 'improvement'. I will add these words to maybe, could be, 'possibly' list.

Now:

All I asked that two groups of evolution believers have very different ideas,

and

....no one has answered who is right! :D

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Re: Apologetic Islamic take on Evolution ... Or unkind dismissal?

Med911 brings up an excellent point. How could an all knowing, all powerful God be able to explain evolution to the arabs. Do you not understand how stupid arabs were back then? Even an all knowing and all powerful God could not devise a way to impart this knowledge and I'm glad Med911 brought this up!

Brother psyah, evolution is falsifiable. We can dig up the fossil record and show there has been no change over time for species. We can show instances of God creating animals supernaturally such as giraffe from water. Please don't make claims that evolution isn't true because it isn't falisifiable. This kind of reasoning should be avoided because then liberals would say creationism isn't falsifiable.

On a personal level, even though I have no scientific education and would be considered functionally illiterate when reading about evolution I know it isn't true.