any accountants here.......

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1

i am a final year B.Com student in canada and trying to get in to the 4 big accounting firms to complete my audit requirement. as you all know the procedure i go and attend all these workshops on campus where the reps of these companies come and basically pick out the students as they graduate or for summers. i must admit that during all these years at university it never occured to me to attend these workshops as i never had a clear picture of what i wanted to do after the bachelors but after i got a job in a small firm, to basically help out the accountant in the office, i made up my mind to go for the CA. up till now i have attended only 2 workshops but could not get a chance to personally talk to any of these reps.
now the question that i have is that will the job that i have right now, where i am basically handling all the accounting stuff and the accountant who has become a partner is spending more time marketing, going to be any help and up to what level and what should i do to atleast be sure of a secured position after i graduate, considering the number of students that apply every year.

all suggestions are welcome :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bhoot ka baap: *
up till now i have attended only 2 workshops but could not get a chance to personally talk to any of these reps.

[/QUOTE]

Make that chance happen. Create those opportunities and market yourself. This isn't a grad school app where you can communicate most of what you want through correspondence. Everyone and their pet hamster will be competing for a spot in the big 4 and the reps will be on the lookout for individuals who stand out during those luncheons.

The only two things that'll set apart the big dawgs from Joe Schmoe: your ability to communicate and your grades. Do some homework before you attend - about their firms, the accounting industry in general etc., and have questions ready for them. Don't be surprised if they throw fastballs like "So what's your opinion on xyz" while you're schmoozing.

re: Courses, it goes without saying that you'll want to have the highest grades possible. Especially in the courses making up the 51-credit hour requirement if you're in Ontario/East, or 39-credit hours to get into the CASB program if you're in Western Canada. Most, if not all, reps from the big 4 will want to see all those credit hours completed (by the time you graduate) with as high a grade as possible.

I dunno about most ppl on this forum, but Faisal bhai is definitely the best person to provide sound advice and insight re: the accounting industry.

There are very well organized programs once you get in the firms, where you'll be mentored and buddy-ed up with experienced folk once you're ready to write the UFE etc. So no need to worry about any of that stuff.

For now, just keep ur grades up in ur last yr and go in those conference rooms conifdent and ready to sell, sell, sell.

Best of luck.

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Thank you very Diablo, i appreciate you taking your time out for the detailed reply. I am not taking any chances this year as far as the grades are concerned. However i had real rough time the last year but inshallah i will come up to the mark.

Faisal bhaiiiiii where are you, needs some help here :)

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Hey, I am sorry I missed this thread (plus I am hardly online during the weekends). So anyway...

I can't speak for CA firms in Canada cz I have never worked there, but in the US, when we hire first year staff, it always helps to have some kinda viable work experience to differentiate yourself from every other college kid. Even though our expectations are pretty low from new staff in terms of how much they know about accounting and audit when they join the firm, we do tend to hire folks who have some practical experience. Though the primary factors we consider are always the same... relevant education, personality, communication skills and a desire to learn and succeed. About the only college kids who actually make it to the interview are those with GPA of 3.8 or above, which is kinda odd, but does tell how fierce the competition is.

Globally, PwC is the largest,, followed by E&Y, KPMG and Deloitte. Any other questions, feel free.

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Thankyou very much Faisal Bhai for the reply.......:)

i must admit that i dunno what got in to me at the start of this year as going for CA became almost a passion for me and just the thought ke if i don't get in to any of the big one kills me. but i love this excitement too as i was not doing too good at skool so this makes me work harder and gives me a sense of going on and i know that there are alot of accounitng firms that i can get in to if khudanakhuwastaa i don't get in to the big 4s just to complete the formality of the experience but u knoe how it is we always work for the best one or atleast want to.

i would like to ask you some questions and for suggestion if you like i will PM you or i can post them here.....

Thanks once again.

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Either way is fine. Post them here is better so others can benefit too, though if its private info, you can PM... No problem. Though, again, I must warn you, I have no experience in Canadian CA firms or their hiring process.

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Faisal bhai,
i’m also into the same profession, and would like to ask you a few things too. you know this field isnt exactly as simple as regular college at grad or postgrad level, so we newbies and starters are always under one confusion or another.
youre in the US right and if i remember right youve done your CPA. in canada there is an option between going either for the CPA or the CA right? so what are the major diferences? do the big 4 have any prejudice between CAs and CPAs and ACCAs and whats the major diff between the CPA and the CA? i know the european and subcontinet version is the CA, and i’m currently studying for that. but as fara as im aware, the CA is a very gruesome and gruelling more or less 6-7 yrs of study with a definite 4 or more yrs of audit training requirement while the CPA exams canbe covered within arounbd 3 yrs and the firm comes after that? so globally speaking are both qualifications standing equal? in the middleast, far east, in pak, india, UK, Can and US in terms of employment and salaries etc.? i’m aware that every region has their local variants for subjects and the laws etc and may effect the demand and pacakages.
and, whats the diff betwen being in one of the big 4 or being in a firm affilitaed with one of the big 4?
and, what other fields can a CA/CPA swith over to later on? could they have any relationship with actuarial professions?

thanks alot, and would b very thankfl for your guidance.
thanks :k:

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sorry for replying late.... had some skool work to finish...

so anyways i would like to ask you questions about few things that i am doing right now. i am working in a small firm with 7-8 people it basically is a material handling firm and we are in the business of selling, leasing and servicing the forklifts. it is a private firm with slightly over million dollars in revenue. it started as a part-time thing with myself just helping the senior accountant, who is a grad. from my university. However, he is becoming a partner as he stayed with the company for more than 10 yrs. now. so now i am doing all the bookkeeping like inoicing, billing,A/R,A/P, bank, payroll, ordering parts, taking service calls, etc... i have not done the tax part yet which i am really interested in. anywayz the question i would like to ask you is that i have an option of getting in to a bank, i think like a fresh staff or whatever, as i know few friends or stick with this company until i graduate. i like working here cuz my boss went through the skool time so he realizes the hard work and gives me a lot of room and flexibility. i am not making any big bucks right now but it is good as a pocket money :). so in the given circumstances what would you prefer staying with the company or moving on. one more thing as it is a small firm most of the stuff is transparent for me and gives me a better understading of the day to day stuff and how to go around the stuff :)

and if you don't mind me asking where are you working right now and did you do CPA from Canada...

Thanks.

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well just bcz you ppl r discussing about CA/CPA etc. i have gota question regarding ACCA. wot if one wants to convert his studies/experience after ACCA towards a CA designation..i.e Canadian CA/CGA or states CPA... would there be any exemption available or wot would be exact process in terms of becoming a CA/CPA in canada/states.

thanks

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
in canada there is an option between going either for the CPA or the CA right? so what are the major diferences? do the big 4 have any prejudice between CAs and CPAs and ACCAs and whats the major diff between the CPA and the CA? i know the european and subcontinet version is the CA, and i'm currently studying for that. but as fara as im aware, the CA is a very gruesome and gruelling more or less 6-7 yrs of study with a definite 4 or more yrs of audit training requirement while the CPA exams canbe covered within arounbd 3 yrs and the firm comes after that? so globally speaking are both qualifications standing equal? in the middleast, far east, in pak, india, UK, Can and US in terms of employment and salaries etc.? i'm aware that every region has their local variants for subjects and the laws etc and may effect the demand and pacakages.

and, whats the diff betwen being in one of the big 4 or being in a firm affilitaed with one of the big 4?

and, what other fields can a CA/CPA swith over to later on? could they have any relationship with actuarial professions?
[/QUOTE]
Alright, thats a lot of questions. Some require factual answers and some require personal opinions and expertise, so I will try to keep it distinct.

Whether you want to do CPA or CA really depends on where you ultimately want to live your life. If you plan to move to USA at some point, and live here than go for CPA. If, on the other hand, you plan to live in Canada all your life, then CA is fine. Both are comparable degrees. And there is some crossover as well. There are many Canadian CA's employed in the US and CPA's employed in Canada, however, if they have long term plans, it is always advised to get the local degree.

Outside of CA and CPA, you have many tertiary degrees, like CFA, CMA, CISA etc. These are, in no way, comparable to CA or CPA. You should plan to add on these degrees later, if you want... but work for the core CPA/CA as a primary target. Don't get confused between these many choices. These are for those people who don't think they can qualify CA/CPA.

In Middle East both CA and CPA are considered equal, so it will depend on how relevant your experience is and your personality.

CA is definitely tough. But its not impossible. There are a large number of students who fail in CA every year, and they create a myth that its impossible to qualify. Its all BS. The problem in Pakistan usually is that all the best students opt for Engineering or Medical or MBA. So historically only those who didn't get admission anywhere else would do BCom and then attempt CA and fail. This has changed in the last 10 years. Many bright students now opt for CA by choice. I know many many students in Pak who completed their CA within their articleship. CA is no harder or easier than any other professional exam. Just keep that in mind.

Compared to CA, CPA is relatively easier. Its a uniform exam in the US administered by AICPA. There are only 4 subjects. There are very good review courses available. You do need to have appropriate credit in your under-grad/grad to be able to write the exam. Each state in the US sets their own requirements to allow candidates to be able to write the exam. Once you clear the exam, then you need to have a minimum work experience, before you can apply for the license. Each state has different licensing requirements as well, so depends on which state you want to practice.

Working for a Big-4 or someone affiliated with a Big-4? Do clarify the question.. what do you mean affiliates? Big-4 have branches in many countries of the world. Those branches may have local names to comply with local laws. That doesn't diminish their stature. For example, A.F. Ferguson in Pakistan is part of PricewaterhouseCoopers. When you work for AFF, its just like you work for PwC. Its the same thing.

Acturial and CA/CPA have relatively little in common. Acturial is more a statistician. CA/CPA are accountants. The more natural swing from CA/CPA is to go into Finance. Most CFO's in the US, by qualification are CPA's (not all, though). As a CPA/CA you can either stay in public accounting and rise up to be a partner in some firm, or start your own. You can either be in audit, tax or any kind of consulting areas. Alternatively, after a few years of public accounting experience, you can jump to industry and start on the Controller/CFO track. Or you can go for the internal audit or IT audit tracks.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bhoot ka baap: *
so anyways i would like to ask you questions about few things that i am doing right now. i am working in a small firm with 7-8 people it basically is a material handling firm and we are in the business of selling, leasing and servicing the forklifts. it is a private firm with slightly over million dollars in revenue. it started as a part-time thing with myself just helping the senior accountant, who is a grad. from my university. However, he is becoming a partner as he stayed with the company for more than 10 yrs. now. so now i am doing all the bookkeeping like inoicing, billing,A/R,A/P, bank, payroll, ordering parts, taking service calls, etc... i have not done the tax part yet which i am really interested in. anywayz the question i would like to ask you is that i have an option of getting in to a bank, i think like a fresh staff or whatever, as i know few friends or stick with this company until i graduate. i like working here cuz my boss went through the skool time so he realizes the hard work and gives me a lot of room and flexibility. i am not making any big bucks right now but it is good as a pocket money :). so in the given circumstances what would you prefer staying with the company or moving on. one more thing as it is a small firm most of the stuff is transparent for me and gives me a better understading of the day to day stuff and how to go around the stuff :)
[/QUOTE]
If I understand it correctly, your major question is should you stick to a small private company which gives you a more all round accouting experience or move to a (bigger) bank and start work as a fresh staff.

Well, it depends really, on what you want to do in your life. If your aim is to ultimately be a banker, then switch to a proper banking job as soon as you get the opportunity.

If you are not sure, and are just wondering what will look good on your resume, then practically speaking if you have worked in that small private company for a reasonable period of time and have worked on all areas of accounting, then now you are just being repetitive. You have gotten everything you could have from the private company, as far as your resume is concerned. Move on to better things.

Most importantly, at this stage of your career, don't ever get stuck with unimportant issues (i.e. 1. nice people, 2. commute, 3. good/bad salary etc). Your focus should entirely be 'is this position going to help me achieve my career goals'. Ofcourse, the first thing is to have a 'career goal'. If your career goal is to go for CA in Canada, then attend the workshops by major accounting firms (don't just focus on Big-4, but also consider other global firms). Find out what their requirements are in terms of GPA, courses, work experience etc. And then broaden your horizons by trying to get into some brand name companies for work experience (even if its just unpaid internships). Get a feel for how big companies work. This will all give you an edge when you apply in a Big-4 accounting firm as a first year staff.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rehan_Pk: *
well just bcz you ppl r discussing about CA/CPA etc. i have gota question regarding ACCA. wot if one wants to convert his studies/experience after ACCA towards a CA designation..i.e Canadian CA/CGA or states CPA... would there be any exemption available or wot would be exact process in terms of becoming a CA/CPA in canada/states.
[/QUOTE]
Not sure about Canada, but in USA, an ACCA is not likely to get you any exemptions. Do check the website of NASBA.org for requirements of CPA. Check Colorado, as historically it has the most lenient requirements. Your best hope should be that they will allow you to write CPA without additional US study credits. A qualified CA from Pak can write CPA from Colorado without a problem. No other state allows that. Eng & Wales CA or Canadian CA has more options.

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well that pretty much explains it all.... however the main target i have is to finish skool with good grades. you are right that i have seen the max of the company and the accounting involved. Banking would definitely be something new and the diversity would look good on the resume. so basically what i have to do now is to concentrate on the studies and try looking either for an internship or a job, like in a bank, which would be something different.

the last question, this experience will help me when i am applying for the articleship after the graduation right????

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All kinds of work experience gives you an edge, as it shows your potential as a team player, a leader and a problem solver. When you attend these Big-4 workshops, talk to some first year staff they bring and find out from them what work experience they had when they joined the firm. Alternatively talk to your councellor (in colleges, I am sure you guys have career counsellors) and find out what are your options. Stick to more accounting related internships/jobs. If you get an opportunity, try to get internship in a Big-4 accounting firm or in the internal audit department of any other company. That will be an extremely relevant experience.

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Haris and anyone else wondering about the CPA in Canada: There’s no such thing, the equivalent designation is probably the CGA (Certified General Accountant).

Here’s how it breaks down re: requirements etc:

CGA (Certified General Accountant): Encompasses a broad body of business knowledge as academic requirements instead of any particular accounting area. Pass all the courses with good grades and obtain 24-36 months of relevant experience in a financial setting to qualify to obtain the designation.

15 topics + 2 or 3 from your area of ‘specialization’ (Corp. and small-medium enterprise, IT, Government and non-profit or Public Practice). Depending on your area of specialization, you may have to write one or two PACE level exams. Other than that, no formal exam procedure.

CMA (Certified Management Accountant): Encompasses general financial accounting, and advanced cost/mgmt accounting, plus quantitave courses, law, and business courses (Operations, Marketing etc.) Total of 17 topics. Followed by 1 entrance exam. Capped off by 2-yr Strategic Leadership/Work experience program reuqirment, during which your progress and achievment is monitored by a panel and advisory group while you perform in a full-time (management accounting) job. The majority work in non-accounting firms and organizations.

CA (Chartered Accountant): Majority of the courses are in Financial accounting, auditing, taxation, followed by mgmt accounting. 17-18 topics. 3 exams to follow: Core-Knowledge Exam (CKE) - a relatively easy multiple-choice question to test the candidate’s general knowledge across all courses taken. Attending the **School of Accountancy (SOA) **- a 3-week full-time program of workshops, case studies tackled individually and in groups, presentations etc. Finally, the Uniform Evaluation (UFE) an intensive 3-day natioanl exam testing the candidates competency across all major areas. Almost all the qualified candidates end up with the big 4 or for the government.

Frims will take you in at the entry-level as long as the academic requirement is complete (with good grades), and from that point you’re mentored to prepare for the 3 exams while you work on the job.

note: A proposed CA-CMA merger is already in the advanced stages (details and updates available on both CA and CMA websites). This merger will not be going ahead in Quebec.

The proposed new profession (expected to be phased in 2005) will be the ‘CA’ with 3 streams of specialization - Audt and Assurance, Taxation and Management.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Diablo Kazama: *
Haris and anyone else wondering about the CPA in Canada: There's no such thing, the equivalent designation is probably the CGA (Certified General Accountant).

[/QUOTE]

Haaaw Haye! :-)
Diablo yaar - don't discredit the designation of a CPA by comparing it to the CGA...

What CPAs' do in the States, CAs' do in Canada... albiet it is common knowledge that the CA designation is just a little harder to attain. I have friends who have dual designations and they're of the opinion that its a natural progression to get the other once you have one cuz it opens up new doors for you.

In Canada, CGAs' are at the groundowrk stage of the Accounting Profession, followed by CMAs' and then CAs' ... and yes, the proposed merger is something to watch out for - it may very well change the equation for all these designations. My cousin who is a CA is furious and naturally so... after having worked his a$$ off, he's gonna be at the same level as a CMA who didn't have as many designation requistes.

Finally, I think the CFA is in a genre of its own, although people do tag that suffix onto their CMA or CGA designation nonetheless, it is the highest regarded credential in the securities industry, and certifies that someone has expertise in stock and bond analysis, as well as portfolio management.

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Umar bhai,

I understand what you're saying. That post was about requirements and the route taken to obtain the diff designations. I would've thought the CGA was quite comparable to the CPA in terms of requirements and how to go about attaining the designation, i.e less structured than a CA (in either country) and are able to complete those courses quite easily on your own while working FT, less exams to write etc. Just an opinion, could be be wrong, but that's the feeling I've gotten. Regarding the work they do, of course they're nowhere near CPA's. CGA's are working in the trenches at the entry-level when it really comes down to it.

Agreed about the CFA, it has its own distinct standing and few people realize how thorough and intensive it really is in terms of what it prepares you for. If you can grasp and clear all the exams, you def know your siht. A finance professor I knew needed more than one try to finally clear the Level 3 exam. The number of succesful candidates has improved over the years, but CFAI's released pass rates were 64% across NA, and below 50% for Asia for last year's L3. If one's going into financial analysis and i-banking, it's THE trump on your stationery.

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Link for anyone interested in the CA-CMA (Canada) merger discussions, propositions and press releases.

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brownies khayein jaan banaayein :bhangra:

ummm…wese kaam ki baat…us din u mssged me on msn n i was away…to reply nai kiya tha…wapis aa ker dekha to aap jaa chuke the…to sorry about that na :smack:
kaheen aap yeh na sochre hon i m mad at u or anything :halo: …
umm…haan…bus yehi kehne aayee thi :halo:

tata :wave: …

ps: …or haan…mein is liye bhi aayee thi keh is thread mein thore se smilies add ker doon :blush: …u know its so…peekhi peekhi :halo: …

ok ok tata now…

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Thanks alot everyone for replying and providing us with the help and guidance.....:)

chalo chal ke cafe mein kheltay hain :p