any accountants here.......

Rani_Pakistani · October 6, 2004, 3:22am

ur not online …

mene to yaheen khelna hai

faisal bhai se poochein woh khelein ge ?

Haris · October 6, 2004, 7:29am

^bacchcon jab barre kaam ki baatein kar rahe hote hain to beech mein khel kood aur shor nahi karte :D

Haris · October 6, 2004, 7:48am

*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Alright, thats a lot of questions. Some require factual answers and some require personal opinions and expertise, so I will try to keep it distinct.

Whether you want to do CPA or CA really depends on where you ultimately want to live your life. If you plan to move to USA at some point, and live here than go for CPA. If, on the other hand, you plan to live in Canada all your life, then CA is fine. Both are comparable degrees. And there is some crossover as well. There are many Canadian CA’s employed in the US and CPA’s employed in Canada, however, if they have long term plans, it is always advised to get the local degree.

Outside of CA and CPA, you have many tertiary degrees, like CFA, CMA, CISA etc. These are, in no way, comparable to CA or CPA. You should plan to add on these degrees later, if you want… but work for the core CPA/CA as a primary target. Don’t get confused between these many choices. These are for those people who don’t think they can qualify CA/CPA.

In Middle East both CA and CPA are considered equal, so it will depend on how relevant your experience is and your personality.

CA is definitely tough. But its not impossible. There are a large number of students who fail in CA every year, and they create a myth that its impossible to qualify. Its all BS. The problem in Pakistan usually is that all the best students opt for Engineering or Medical or MBA. So historically only those who didn’t get admission anywhere else would do BCom and then attempt CA and fail. This has changed in the last 10 years. Many bright students now opt for CA by choice. I know many many students in Pak who completed their CA within their articleship. CA is no harder or easier than any other professional exam. Just keep that in mind.

Compared to CA, CPA is relatively easier. Its a uniform exam in the US administered by AICPA. There are only 4 subjects. There are very good review courses available. You do need to have appropriate credit in your under-grad/grad to be able to write the exam. Each state in the US sets their own requirements to allow candidates to be able to write the exam. Once you clear the exam, then you need to have a minimum work experience, before you can apply for the license. Each state has different licensing requirements as well, so depends on which state you want to practice.

Working for a Big-4 or someone affiliated with a Big-4? Do clarify the question.. what do you mean affiliates? Big-4 have branches in many countries of the world. Those branches may have local names to comply with local laws. That doesn’t diminish their stature. For example, A.F. Ferguson in Pakistan is part of PricewaterhouseCoopers. When you work for AFF, its just like you work for PwC. Its the same thing.

Acturial and CA/CPA have relatively little in common. Acturial is more a statistician. CA/CPA are accountants. The more natural swing from CA/CPA is to go into Finance. Most CFO’s in the US, by qualification are CPA’s (not all, though). As a CPA/CA you can either stay in public accounting and rise up to be a partner in some firm, or start your own. You can either be in audit, tax or any kind of consulting areas. Alternatively, after a few years of public accounting experience, you can jump to industry and start on the Controller/CFO track. Or you can go for the internal audit or IT audit tracks.

Faisla bhai,
great reply! very comprehensive. thanks a lot! :k:

about the affilitions etc i meant exactly what you have answered. so i guess AFF is PWC in Pakistan.
thnaks a lot for the encouragement and highlighting of poitns to be focussed.
i just hope i get through and make smthng out of my life, a good career in the field that ive chosen.
about the actuaries, yeah theyre more onto the statistical side. i know this guy here whos an FCA and a fellow actuary aswell, pretty smart!
btw, why are actuaries paid filthily huge salries? and do CA/CPA still fall under the highest paid qualifications globally or has it changed? and how close can they compete on the payscale with actuaries?
thanks a lot
btw, what firm do you work at? and how long have you been in the profession?

Haris · October 6, 2004, 7:53am

*Originally posted by Diablo Kazama: *
Haris and anyone else wondering about the CPA in Canada: There’s no such thing, the equivalent designation is probably the CGA (Certified General Accountant).

Here’s how it breaks down re: requirements etc:

CGA (Certified General Accountant): Encompasses a broad body of business knowledge as academic requirements instead of any particular accounting area. Pass all the courses with good grades and obtain 24-36 months of relevant experience in a financial setting to qualify to obtain the designation.

15 topics + 2 or 3 from your area of ‘specialization’ (Corp. and small-medium enterprise, IT, Government and non-profit or Public Practice). Depending on your area of specialization, you may have to write one or two PACE level exams. Other than that, no formal exam procedure.

CMA (Certified Management Accountant): Encompasses general financial accounting, and advanced cost/mgmt accounting, plus quantitave courses, law, and business courses (Operations, Marketing etc.) Total of 17 topics. Followed by 1 entrance exam. Capped off by 2-yr Strategic Leadership/Work experience program reuqirment, during which your progress and achievment is monitored by a panel and advisory group while you perform in a full-time (management accounting) job. The majority work in non-accounting firms and organizations.

CA (Chartered Accountant): Majority of the courses are in Financial accounting, auditing, taxation, followed by mgmt accounting. 17-18 topics. 3 exams to follow: Core-Knowledge Exam (CKE) - a relatively easy multiple-choice question to test the candidate’s general knowledge across all courses taken. Attending the **School of Accountancy (SOA) **- a 3-week full-time program of workshops, case studies tackled individually and in groups, presentations etc. Finally, the Uniform Evaluation (UFE) an intensive 3-day natioanl exam testing the candidates competency across all major areas. Almost all the qualified candidates end up with the big 4 or for the government.

Frims will take you in at the entry-level as long as the academic requirement is complete (with good grades), and from that point you’re mentored to prepare for the 3 exams while you work on the job.

note: A proposed CA-CMA merger is already in the advanced stages (details and updates available on both CA and CMA websites). This merger will not be going ahead in Quebec.

The proposed new profession (expected to be phased in 2005) will be the ‘CA’ with 3 streams of specialization - Audt and Assurance, Taxation and Management.

wow great info,
Thanks alot Diablo! :k:
very helpful.

this mergerbetween the Ca and CMA has me a bit onfused though…is it going to be a global thing or it being initiated by the canadian institutes…?
any more views on it?
i’ll check the other link you posted too.
thnaks:)

Lucid_Chaotic · October 6, 2004, 10:28am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
i just hope i get through and make smthng out of my life, a good career in the field that ive chosen.
about the actuaries, yeah theyre more onto the statistical side. i know this guy here whos an FCA and a fellow actuary aswell, pretty smart!
btw, why are actuaries paid filthily huge salries?

[/QUOTE]

Haris,
For Actuaries indeed, the CFA credential is a handsome add-on to their portfolio. Re: why are they paid so well... I know for one, Actuaries have invariably been ranked as the second best job in the United States by the Jobs Rated Almanac... and I guess they're paid well by virtue of the characteristic of the firms they work for i.e. insurance companies, commercial banks, investment banks etc. which constitute the economy's backbone.

At one point in time, I was considering a career as an Actuary... might still look into it someday :)

Ciao.

system · October 6, 2004, 11:52am

^ umar bhai kya kya karain gay, phd kar le hay ab Actuary be good luck waisay :k:

system · October 6, 2004, 6:37pm

Umar bhai, thinking of adding actuary to an already impressive list of qualifications! mash'Allah that's awesome, that truly is an inspiration - wishing you all the best! :)

Haris, it's a Canada only proposed merger. I'm not sure if they have a distinct management accounting gig in the U.S? (Although I think there's an independent body somehwhere that also grants a 'CMA', which could be US-based). The U.K has the CIMA under it's own body.

Rani_Pakistani · October 6, 2004, 7:48pm

bachay honge khud.

wese bhi mein umair bhai se baat kerri thi…

…

Haris · October 7, 2004, 9:28am

^acha na rani, to ghussa to nahi karo yaar! :D

Haris · October 7, 2004, 9:36am

Umer bhai,
thanks for the info. you mnetioned actuaries being the 2nd best job, whats the first?
and yeah since ctuaries basically belong to the prediction, forecats, planning etc fields having a CFA or a CA can make them wonders in the finacial and consultancy/ stock market etc fields.
It’s been the same with me too, i considered it alot too, getting into the actauarial profession, but was held back out of some confusions, fear etc but i still think about it. now i’m in the CA fields…but lets see…might step in that direction after im done with this…
and from other posts by diabli and fatalist i gather you have a long CV? that cool really what have you done and what field are you in?
do let me know. if not here then PM.
and if you have bennconsidering the actuarial field i just might be able to get some info etc from you about the reqs of the study and so on.
thanks alot! :k:

Haris · October 7, 2004, 9:40am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Diablo Kazama: *
Umar bhai, thinking of adding actuary to an already impressive list of qualifications! mash'Allah that's awesome, that truly is an inspiration - wishing you all the best! :)

Haris, it's a Canada only proposed merger. I'm not sure if they have a distinct management accounting gig in the U.S? (Although I think there's an independent body somehwhere that also grants a 'CMA', which could be US-based). The U.K has the CIMA under it's own body.
[/QUOTE]

Diablo,
thanks! i think other bodies might follow them soon in the years to come...it sounds relevent. and yeah i think there is this CMA bodyin US that provides CMA and CFM i guess.

Rani_Pakistani · October 7, 2004, 7:25pm

keroon gi …

Haris · October 8, 2004, 4:51pm

^nahiii yaar please nahii

Rani_Pakistani · October 8, 2004, 7:54pm

haan haan haan

:bash: :bash: :bash:

Haris · October 11, 2004, 7:23am

now i know why my head was aching Sat night!

Lucid_Chaotic · October 11, 2004, 8:16am

Haris,

This is what the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau say about the Ten Best Jobs

believe it or not… Biologist
Actuary
Financial planner
Computer-systems analyst
Accountant
Software engineer
Meteorologist
Paralegal assistant
Statistician
Astronomer

What’s more kewl is that I guess 2, 3, 5 and 9 all sort of relate to the real professional domain of an Actuary.

In terms of what I do, its a loooong story - I’m currently pursuing my Ph.D. in Community Informatics. The CV is here:
http://www.umar.biz/resume.html

I kinda try to keep in touch with the developments in Financial Careers cuz of personal interests… lemme know if you have any questions.

Ciao.

Rani_Pakistani · October 11, 2004, 3:12pm

bkb bhai in ko bolo yeh cafe nai hai C&A forum hai yahan flooding nai kerte ..

…

Faisal · October 12, 2004, 6:21pm

Since you guys were talking about the Canadian merger… here is some news that may be of interest.

Accounting Web](http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=99871)

**National Merger in Doubt as Canadian Accountant Groups Stay Separate
**

Quebec has become the lone hold out in a plan to unify Canada’s accounting profession with representatives calling off merger talks on Tuesday, the Canadian Press reported.
The move throws the targeted Jan. 1 unification date out the window and leaves in question whether three groups from Quebec will participate at all in the unified organization, which was to be organized under the chartered accountants (CA) designation.

The chartered accountants and certified management accountants across Canada have been considering the merger that would unite 100,000 members into a single professional group.

Representatives of three Quebec organizations-Ordre des comptables agrees (CA), the Ordre des comptables generaux licencies (CGA) and the Ordre des comptables en management accredites (CMA) du Quebec-reported that while their members saw the merger as largely favorable, there were still “reservations” about aspects of the plan, Canadian Press reported. The strongest of those reservations apparently revolved around the single designation.

“The leaders of the professions in the other provinces across Canada are currently looking at what the implications are on a national level,” David Fletcher, vice-president of public affairs at CMA Canada, told Canadian Press.

It is not clear as to whether accountants in the rest of Canada would go forward with the merger without Quebec’s participation.

Lucid_Chaotic · October 12, 2004, 6:35pm

^^ I really hope Canada does not go through with it - its a stupid thing to do to begin with... aiwaieeN rola paya hoya aye!

bhoot_ka_baap · October 14, 2004, 2:44am

^^ dittio

bekaar mein CAs ko CMAs se compare kar rahe hain.... i think its just not fair.