Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Listening to the dad will be the day, Dude he passed away some 20 years ago.:)
Probably left a long legacy…:)
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
there is RAF Base near to my place here in London. I pass by everyday, I can post a picture of so called "1 Kanal residences" 6 floor high small 1/2 Bed appartment building, nothing extravgant. !
Passing by their houses has given you an insight in their life…Oh shut up! ..., Unlike you I have met them, of the same rank ,conversed with them, and have seen their day to day living.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
No other country's armed forces have generals who are millionaires, run DHAs, get Mercedes Benzs, get paid both from Army as well as cushy jobs in WAPDA etc. Calling people retards etc. won't cover up the truth.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
SO why dont you skip this thread? why do you come back here to get insulted,Oh Sorry, You belong to the “Bayghairat clan”!!!
PS: Please dont abuse the indian army to get brownie points, cause of your bayghairatee, you dont get any.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
No other country's armed forces have generals who are millionaires, run DHAs, get Mercedes Benzs, get paid both from Army as well as cushy jobs in WAPDA etc. Calling people retards etc. won't cover up the truth.
OK OK!! and...:LB:
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
OK OK!! and...:LB:
tch..tch..LOSER!!!
here you again.. when u can;t explain things logically you start calling BC BG things. reli shows ur mentality.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Passing by their houses has given you an insight in their life…Oh shut up! you retard, Unlike you I have met them, of the same rank ,conversed with them, and have seen their day to day living.
oooooo i m soo impressed!!!
so u conversed with them too huh? very impressive. now i belive u r frm army..
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
SO why dont you skip this thread? why do you come back here to get insulted,,Oh Sorry, You belong to the "Bayghairat clan"!!!! :)
PS: Please dont abuse the indian army to get brownie points, cause of your bayghairatee, you dont get any.
now i wonder which got screwed at kargill
and oh do we remember the 1971? which clan gave islamic history a new dimension by giving it the biggest surrender...
and i think general yahya belonged to the same clan.
no wonder why this is a nation ruled by bayghairats by the bayghairats and for the bayghairats..
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
futile
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
I m thinking to initiate a thread, my question is do we really need army ? we have come on back foot on Kashmir Issue, in the name of which the Great Pak Army was eating 80% of the budget, Our Great General is so kind , he wants friendship with our enemy. then why do we need Army then? when there is no one to fight against, i dont think there is any reason to feed 80% budget to them.
we have ignored the shahadats of hundereds and thousands of Kashmiris, so who is the baighairat? those who still want to fight for their freedom or those who want friendship with those who r killing them?
we have backed out on Siachin, we r having fruitful dialogues with Indian to withdraw Armies from Siachin.
Oh Yes, perhaps there r some reasons to keep the army, who will run DHAs, Public Schools, Helping Earthquake "Victims" , who will eat 80% budget of the country with no audit, no accounntability.
then who will perish our constitution?
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
i think military people r doing gr88888 jobs, wherever they find any place in Pakistan which is located in posh area, they at once occupy that, i just wanna ask for what purpose u people r in posh areas of each city? Islamabad main E sector main kiya kaam hai aap ka? kiya wahan bhi country ki hifazat kay liye aap nay dairay daalay huay hain? whats ur work in most posh areas of Lahore Karachi Islamabad?
well done u people r doing gr88 jobs, defending the country, occupying whatever u find.
jab India se larna hi nahin hai tu what against u r defending the contry?
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
dude ease up, army is a mixture of good and bad. with unfortunately corrupt leading the way. lets hope things change for good.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
I am all for not abusing anybody, including army. But will disagree with many of the so called 'sacrifices' listed here.
Every army in the world goes through such rigorous exercise and discipline - drills etc.
We may like to think of romantic notions of patriotism and heroic deeds and that is true of a small group but the fact is a majority of those joining the army (all armies, not just Pakistan) do so because that is the easiest avenue for them. This is a hard thing to say, and yes it sounds insulting and I don't mean it that way at all, but the soldiers are recruited from poorest sections who cannot and do not have anyother alternative.
What is strange about the Pakistan army is that they seem not satisfied with being an army for a country and keep taking over the govt and swindling the people of their income and lands.
So next time someone wants to abuse the army, don't abuse but don't try to make heros out of the crooks running it either
Absolutely true.
perfect form of criticism i have seen on the blog till date. this is how a civilized person expresses his criticism
let me tell you, most of the junior army officers are praying that the nation gets rid of our boss, the vaunted General Pervez Musharraf. but you see you can not do much.
i know many officers who resigned as a matter of principle on Wana. they are in tens. but we cannot do more than that. the survival of family goes on stake the moment you do such an act. so most of the army is silent spectators and waiting for the top brass to develop some back and tell the chief boss to get lost,
lets hope it happens sooner than later.
that is what i saw on a banner yesterday, i felt ashamed on it. now the situation has reached this stage.
"A watan kay sajeelay wakeelo, saray naghmay tumharay liya hain
A watan kay sajeelay jawano. saray raqbay tumharay liya hain"
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
I m thinking to initiate a thread,--- no accounntability. then who will perish our constitution?
well, contrary to popular beliefs army officers are not that financially secure till the time they retire. and once they retire there is no purpose for them to be on the borders, naturally they will live in DHA where they get a house made from the contributions they pay all the 20 years of their service.
please this blatant corruption is in only general ranks which are no more than 150 at one time. save rest of army as counting pennies.
Now army is a major source of foreign income from UN assignments. Also you are talking about reducing it, army is overstretched due to its commitments in a lot of LIC (low intensity conflicts).
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Bootay: In your self devouring anger and arrogance you have said good by to your intellect, that is if there was any. Just read what you have written and you will understand.
Rest of you all: I think I have proved my point 100%, Now if you people can reason and listen with an open mind you would understand that I am right, otherwise time is the best teacher.
End Of Discussion.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
well, contrary to popular beliefs army officers are not that financially secure till the time they retire. and once they retire there is no purpose for them to be on the borders, naturally they will live in DHA where they get a house made from the contributions they pay all the 20 years of their service.
please this blatant corruption is in only general ranks which are no more than 150 at one time. save rest of army as counting pennies.
Now army is a major source of foreign income from UN assignments. Also you are talking about reducing it, army is overstretched due to its commitments in a lot of LIC (low intensity conflicts).
Same situation could be said of Indian Army and many others, yet they do not live in mansions and have such lifestyles, at the expense of their country
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Underthecross and Haris Zuberi no one in Pakistan is anti-army as an institution but what people deeply resent is military over throwing elected governments. Yes our politicians are very much to blame for failure of democracy in our country but that still does not give the army a licence to topple a corrupt or incompetent civilian government at the slightest opportunity presented to them. The fate of these politicians should be left in the hands of the people via elections every 4 years as happens in most civilised nations.
And what people specifically detest is serving and ex army generals (even retd. colonels in some cases) being appointed as heads of civilian institutions and army officials being given vast plots of land among other perks during military rule.
Besides the drills and rigorous exercises you mentioned, every army in the world has to go through them, so they are not really doing anything out of the ordinary.
And although I was myself educated at a cadet college in Pakistan, I agree to a lot of what Iconoclast (post 9) and Tariq Akhtar (post 32) said in their respective posts.
If our army was so professional (as you claim), it would not keep taking over the government.
Food for thought:
The army’s main job is to defend the country from both internal and external threats and not keep meddling in politics and affairs of the government. I mean I have been living in Britain for 17 years now and I honestly don’t know the name of the Chief of the British Armed Forces. He’s just never in the news. That’s called true professionalism. :)
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Food for thought:
The army’s main job is to defend the country from both internal and external threats and not keep meddling in politics and affairs of the government. I mean I have been living in Britain for 17 years now and I honestly don’t know the name of the Chief of the British Armed Forces. He’s just never in the news. That’s called true professionalism. :)
Excellent point. I'm sure even most Indians don't know the name of their Chief of Army Staff. Or Americans of theirs.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
Asif, I know that most people are not anti-army but anti-army-personality-in-politics.
But there is so much liberalism in insulting the Army, our defenders…
When opposing the army rule ppl forget that the generals don't hatch from eggs and end up as COAS and then become heads of state. There is a constant process that develops such situations, as well as also their ending up as heads of state. And people seem to disregard the right methods of airing criticism. In showing anger for the army rulers they first forget the comparison with the various feudal or industrialist rulers, they forget that when they insult the army general they usually insult the army; the entire army and its activities as an institution. That insults the entire army, not just one individual, or particular actions and creates a sense of contempt for the military; which is a put off and makes the nation look thankless and pathetically amnesic as well as having no morals in treating their defenders this way...
However, history is again repeating itself and the Pakistani nation proves its ineptitude for democracy or any other cracy of any sort for that matter.
Perhaps Musharraf and the Army rule are on the way out, perhaps they are not going anywhere, but pls dont forget how upon each military take-over every pakistani danced on the streets and welcome military take-over in institutions like Wapda, KESC and many others. It wasnt until 3-4 yrs later that ppl began having the issues and started airing negative views. Ironically each time any govt stays in power anywhere close to 3+ yrs, people get restless and they want changes. Be it a civil govt or military. And once the change arrives they dance in joy and swell mithai sales. If Mush goes, there will be similar joy. But within 3 yrs ppl will be ready to welcome anybody at all, even the then COAS.
I'm disappointed in the people of Pakistan and their ability to reason really.
What has continued in a cycle for 60yrs is going on again and may continue forever...this just shows our national ignorance and lack of capacity to judge and decide. We are either powerless or mindless…
Right now there blind hatered for the Army and Mush and blind love and faith in the CJ. Ok, so if Mush goes, CJ stays, WHAT THEN!?
Our nation doesn't think that far...
it proves this every few yrs with no lessons learnt. and that disheartens and shakes all hopes, all patriotism, all hopeful Pakistanis...
And just for info;
UK COAS is Gen Sir Richard Dannett, the new US Army Chief is Gen George Casey, while the Indian COAS is Gen J J Singh. They're all often in the news.
Re: Anti-Pakistan Army
And just for info; UK COAS is Gen Sir Richard Dannett, the new US Army Chief is Gen George Casey, while the Indian COAS is Gen J J Singh. They're all often in the news.
Haris..the President (and his supporters) must remember that the military is a special instrument. It is lethal, and it is meant to be. It is not a civilian police force. And it is most certainly not designed to build a civilian society