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*Originally posted by mufakkar: *Yes Islam can withstand many dissenters. Our prophet withstood much more than dissent with patience and kindness.
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You seem to be an exception. Based on this thread the trend seems to indicate otherwise.
BTW, the issue here is not that one idiot who happens to be a Muslim killed the director. The issue is that we have people saying that the killing was something good.
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BTW, the issue here is not that one idiot who happens to be a Muslim killed the director. The issue is that we have people saying that the killing was something good.
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And that is the issue with all the belief systems and cultures around the world. There are Buddhist monks committed to non violenece who took up arms against the Tamils in Sri Lanka. German's pretend as if some aliens came to their land 60 odd years ago and established nazism... and these are just some of the less confrontational examples...morons are everywhere...
yeah well… who never saw that one coming. :halo:
"What exactly do you mean by this OG"
You can insult my religion all you want, and it will not effect me, will not change my faith. The mere fact that people react so violently to any insult, (never mind harming a Quran), is fairly unique in religions.
And frankly there is far from unanimous condemnation of this murder even here in Gupshup. A very vocal minority thinks this is justified.
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*Originally posted by storch: *
Not in HOLLAND! Get it.
Look, I can't stand pretentious artists who do things just to shock. But you have to tolerate it.
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I dont think you would tolerate one burning your AMerican flag infront of your eyes.
Next time, he wouldnt even get the permission of entering your country.
Is that tolerance?! Interesting.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"What exactly do you mean by this OG"
You can insult my religion all you want, and it will not effect me, will not change my faith. The mere fact that people react so violently to any insult, (never mind harming a Quran), is fairly unique in religions.
And frankly there is far from unanimous condemnation of this murder even here in Gupshup. A very vocal minority thinks this is justified.
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Those who insult Religion, Race and Traditions are maroons....FINITO! That has nothing to do with how strong ones belief is!
He died, fine with me. He could have died in a other way, fine with me.
"I dont think you would tolerate one burning your American flag infront of your eyes."
Name one person who has been murdered for burning a US flag! And yes, people who do burn our flag should not be allowed to "visit" our country. That is a far cry from killing them.
"He died, fine with me"
No he was murdered. Tell me again about the "Religion of Peace" ?
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"I dont think you would tolerate one burning your American flag infront of your eyes."
Name one person who has been murdered for burning a US flag! And yes, people who do burn our flag should not be allowed to "visit" our country. That is a far cry from killing them.
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Get that straight, OG. The post was about TOLERANCE not KILLING the one.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
In your opinion. Oh hell, just kill 'em if you don't agree. May I do the same? If I disagree, may I shoot a Muslim on the street? Fair is fair! The thing is, that many Muslims are the beneficiaies of the protections of a free society. Learn tolerance, we have.
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the doctors killed at abortion clinics may have a minor disagreement with that statement, same probably goes for the innocent sikhs killed after 9/11 or innocent ay-raab looking ppl attacked after 9/11, or for the cinema owners whose cinemas were attacked when last temptation of christ was released, or the mosques that have been attacked in US.
P.S. some idiots did shoot some muslims, or what they considered muslim looking people in the street.
everyone needs to do a tad bit better on this tolerance gig
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Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
No he was murdered. Tell me again about the *"Religion of Peace"** ?
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as soon as you tell me about how well you are following christs saying of **turning the other cheek **I will. Dont you guys supposedly believe in hate the sin not the sinner :) yeah..right
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"nd frankly there is far from unanimous condemnation of this murder even here in Gupshup..
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reminds me of a thread about 78 ppl who died of suffocation in Thailand, to repeat a sentence often used by yourself "the silence was deafening" ..frnakly there is far from unanimous condemnation of those murders. Peopel did not even bother to post there showing how little they really cared.
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You can insult my religion all you want, and it will not effect me, will not change my faith. The mere fact that people react so violently to any insult, (never mind harming a Quran), is fairly unique in religions.
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Well insulting of my religion will not affect me either except I will think of the perpetrator as a jack ass.
"The mere fact that people react so violently to any insult is fairly unique": Excuse me have you forgotten history or for that matter current affairs? Such statements of exclusion may make you feel better but they are not factual.
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And frankly there is far from unanimous condemnation of this murder even here in Gupshup. A very vocal minority thinks this is justified.
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So? all five fingers are not equal...some people are sensible some are not, when Abu Gharib happened there was far from a unanimous condemnation of the occurence and there was a very vocal minority on talk radio that didn't see any harm in it. Whenever an outrage happens, there will be a far from unanimous condemnation of it as hard as it is to believe. To this day, the holocaust, apartheid, the old south, all have a vocal minority behind it. That does not give one license to judge and smear an entire group with the proverbial broad brush my dear american imperialist aggressor :)
Is murder allowed in orthodox Islam?
I couldnt care less about this director, but it was still not the right way to kill him.
But hey any 'innocent' non muslim is killed then there is outrage but bombing and massacring muslims in their thousands is all good.
Sorry folks, rather than looking at this process, you are grasping around at staws so you will not have to confront this. Let’s take a look at the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie:
“The author of The Satanic Verses, a text written, edited, and published against Islam, against the Prophet of Islam, and against the Koran, along with all the editors and publishers aware of its contents, are condemned to capital punishment. I call on all valiant Muslims wherever they may be in the world to execute this sentence without delay, so that no one henceforth will dare insult the sacred beliefs of the Muslims.”
This is not street corner violence, Abu Graib, or random outrage. There is a segment of radical Islam, with the full backing of some Mullahs who believe that insulting Islam is punishable by death. Deny this if you want, twist this into some Anti-American rant if you choose, but the fact that extreme violence is part and parcel of some segments of Islam is undeniable. This is condoned.
This is nothing new Mr. Ohioguy. Orthodox Islam is a firm believer in that the alleged blasphemers of their belief system are to be condemned to death. This is widely practiced in Muslim countries, so why does it surprise people when Muslim immigrants also accept and further these strongly held beliefs overseas.
If the West allows immigration from Muslim countries, then it has to except that they will bring sharia, burqa, honour killings, beheadings etc. with them.
As a Muslim of the Sufi persuasion, and living in a country where Orthodox Islam is so prevalent, I have to deal with such anti-humanist viewpoints all the time. I can tell you first hand that many of these people cannot be reasoned with in a logical manner.
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*Originally posted by M: *
I couldnt care less about this director, but it was still not the right way to kill him.
But hey any 'innocent' non muslim is killed then there is outrage but bombing and massacring muslims in their thousands is all good.
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Hey wait a min...I think i missed something.....Isn't that already happen at a couple of places?! No man you r wrong! THEY (have) r RIGHT(s)!
We cant and we dont tolerate ppl who use blasphemy for just the very reason: FAME and Money!
None tolerates Religious abuse of such kind. NONE!
Not without reasons there is a definition of : THE ANTI CHRIST!
Now think why! Or you wanna tell me Napoleon and Hitler have been tolerated by you Christians?
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*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
As a Muslim of the Sufi persuasion, and living in a country where Orthodox Islam is so prevalent, I have to deal with such anti-humanist viewpoints all the time. I can tell you first hand that many of these people cannot be reasoned with in a logical manner.
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Sufi persuasion, I wonder what Bulley Shahs and Rumis and Baba Farids would have stated about such a person.
Im pretty sure they have thought totally in your favour.
But you are on the right track to become the next Mod here, If you haven't been elected already as one!
Recruitment to the Elite WA Yanks group must be already in process, aight?!
As a muslim of sufi persuasion who has lived in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, I have to deal with such anti-humanist viewpoints all the time by those of orthodox as well as supposedly sufi persuasion of some sort.
The mazaar going, urs attending, pir faqir following people of interior sindh and punjab can hardly be considered followers of orthodox islam, and a simple look at stats would indicate that inhumane activities such as honour killings etc go on in there. I can tell you first hand that many of these people cannot be reasoned with in a logical manner.
so there are idiots of orthodox persuasion, idiots of sufi persuasion (or those who think they are of sufi persuasion), idiots of various schools of thought etc. some of these ppl you can reason with and some you can not rwason with, does not mean you dont try.