Many Americans make no distinction between Qaeda/Taliban terrorism and Islam in general. To such people Islam is terrorism.
There is a project to make a mosque near WTC ground-zero. In the hopes to make distinction between Muslims and terrorism in their name. But this plan is being vehemently opposed by some Americans.
Read this piece from CNN. And don’t forget to read comments below. Because while news articles try to be politically correct, it is comments from general public that give true insight of what people really think.
Muslims are new Jews in the West.
New York (CNN) – Protestors gathered in lower Manhattan mid-day Sunday to demonstrate against plans to build a mosque near the site of Ground Zero…
Protest organizer Pamela Geller, a conservative blogger, and her group, “Stop the Islamicization of America,” planned the event because, according to the group’s website, “Building the Ground Zero mosque is not an issue of religious freedom, but of resisting an effort to insult the victims of 9/11 and to establish a beachhead for political Islam and Islamic supremacism in New York… Ground Zero is a war memorial, a burial ground. Respect it.”
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Geller recently told CNN’s Joy Behar that no one’s telling the mosque’s planners they can’t build it, but “We’re asking them not to.”
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“We feel it would be more appropriate maybe to build a center dedicated to** expunging the Quranic texts of the violent ideology that inspired jihad**, or perhaps a center to the victims of hundreds of millions of years of jihadi wars, land enslavements, cultural annihilations and mass slaughter,” Geller said.
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The project calls for a 13-story community center including a mosque, performing art center, gym, swimming pool and other public spaces.
It is a collaboration between the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative.
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Local political leaders turned out in support of the community last month after Mark Williams of the conservative Tea Party Express reportedly said the mosque was for “the worship of the terrorists’ monkey-god.”
lets not be so hypocrites... in our country, despite the new media and an "independent" judiciary, churches are set on fire, Christians burned alive, Ahmedis shot in mosques, Ahmedi patients attacked in hospitals, etc... and even after all this the focus of Pakistanis is on defending the disgusting part of the constitution that says that Ahmedis are kaafir.
it is not very smart of us to beech about equal rights, secularism in other countries while we defend discriminatory black laws in our own country.
So indirectly you said that demonstration against a Masjid is equal to (or equivalent to ) burning churches and killing of Ahmadis, or calling them kaafir.
And you mean if one is accepted then other should be too. And it will be a hypocritic to even talk about it.
Read your post again if any doubt.
And what did you mean by “our own country”? The masjid could serve people who live in USA. Their country too.
lets not be so hypocrites... in our country, despite the new media and an "independent" judiciary, churches are set on fire, Christians burned alive, Ahmedis shot in mosques, Ahmedi patients attacked in hospitals, etc... and even after all this the focus of Pakistanis is on defending the disgusting part of the constitution that says that Ahmedis are kaafir.
it is not very smart of us to beech about equal rights, secularism in other countries while we defend discriminatory black laws in our own country.
Muslims in general have been criticized by Americans that even though they do condemn terrorism but they also try to justify it starting with a "Yes, but...".
So everyone expects Muslims to condemn terrorism unconditionally. And I agree with this view wholeheartedly.
However, when it comes to discrimination against Muslims based on their religion then exactly the same thing is done against Muslims. Instead of condemning this discrimination, we see a similar "yes, but...", and then justifications for this discrimination.
While you were giving examples of a few incidences of violence against some minorities, you forgot to mention a minority against whom MOST violent acts have taken place in Pakistan. Shias.
Was there anything special about forgetting the real victims of terror in our country?
Whether Pakistan is secular or not, there is no way I would approve such hateful actions against any religion, including Christians or Mirzais.
These supposedly "secular" people are not just showing their hatred against some Muslims but Islam as a religion in general. And yet you being such a "secular" and all that, you still won't condemn it unconditionally?!
Hypocrisy.
is it a difficult concept to understand that we look like fools when we whine for equal rights in other countries where we are religious minorities when we are not willing to extend the same to minorities in our own country?
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when we are not willing to extend the same to minorities in our own country?
[/quote]
Who is not willing? And what rights?
Your lack of unconditional condemnation shows your hypocrisy.
If you justify actions of "secular" Americans based on actions of some of our people then it means there is no difference between "secular" America, the "land of the free", and "terrorist" Pakistan.
is it a difficult concept to understand that we look like fools when we whine for equal rights in other countries where we are religious minorities when we are not willing to extend the same to minorities in our own country?
And you are the smart one who figure this out by giving above examples?
Did you even get what I wrote above?
And who are these 'we' you are talking about? Try to make sense please.
Muslims in general have been criticized by Americans that even though they do condemn terrorism but they also try to justify it starting with a "Yes, but...".
So everyone expects Muslims to condemn terrorism unconditionally. And I agree with this view wholeheartedly.
However, when it comes to discrimination against Muslims based on their religion then exactly the same thing is done against Muslims. Instead of condemning this discrimination, we see a similar "yes, but...", and then justifications for this discrimination.
While you were giving examples of a few incidences of violence against some minorities, you forgot to mention a minority against whom MOST violent acts have taken place in Pakistan. Shias.
Was there anything special about forgetting the real victims of terror in our country?
Whether Pakistan is secular or not, there is no way I would approve such hateful actions against any religion, including Christians or Ahmadis.
These supposedly "secular" people are not just showing their hatred against some Muslims but Islam as a religion in general. And yet you being such a "secular" and all that, you still won't condemn it unconditionally?!
Hypocrisy.
my only problem is that I think we should set our house in order before we go asking others to fix their problems. when we talk about problems in Pakistan, instead of ppl even accepting that we might have a problem, all I see is people on the defensive.. why can't we admit that we have to work on a lot of problems in our country?
it just seems a tad hypocritical to me when we're not even willing to admit that we have a problem with persecuting religious minorities in our own country... and yet we make such a big hoopla when some crazy rednecks say something stupid. we have ten Aamir Liaqat Hussains, Israr Ahmeds, etc to their one Glenn Beck. so lets put our own house in order... before we start pointing fingers at others.
Your lack of unconditional condemnation shows your hypocrisy.
If you justify actions of "secular" Americans based on actions of some of our people then it means there is no difference between "secular" America, the "land of the free", and "terrorist" Pakistan.
why do people get so defensive and upset when Ahmedis ask that the clause declaring them kaafir be deleted from the constitution? I might have my own views on that... but the constitution is not the place where these debates get settled. yet people get so ticked off by as reasonable a demand as that.
and weren't you the guy who wasn't even willing to call ahmedis Ahmedis when I told you that I've been told by a friend that they consider the term Qadiani derogatory... you still didn't change your stripes. so, who are you talk to talk about rights etc when you can't even extend them such a small little courtesy?
I'm not sure if I'm a hypocrite. but I do feel that I'm going to make sure that I'm not doing something wrong before I go ask someone else to fix their fault. it's as simple as that.
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why can't we admit that we have to work on a lot of problems in our country?
[/quote]
And who denied it?
But while we do need to straighten out A LOT of things in our country, why does it bother you if we also criticize discrimination against Muslims in other countries?
Or are you saying that it is ok to, say kill Muslims in America, because some Muslims kill non-Muslims in Pakistan?!
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it just seems a tad hypocritical to me when we're not even willing to admit that we have a problem with persecuting religious minorities in our own country...
[/quote]
Who does not admit we have our own problems?
But two wrongs don't make a right. How can you criticize Pakistan for persecuting religious minorities, while at the same time not criticizing America for the same?
Yes, it is hypocritical of you.
How can you criticize Pakistan for persecuting religious minorities, while at the same time not criticizing America for the same?
Yes, it is hypocritical of you.
because Pakistan is my country. America is not. I'm harder on myself and on my own. I don't expect of others what I can't do or give myself.
^ So you would be ok if Muslims are killed in America, only because some so-called Muslims kill Christians in Pakistan?
After all, you are HARD on yourself.
lets not be so hypocrites... in our country, despite the new media and an "independent" judiciary, churches are set on fire, Christians burned alive, Ahmedis shot in mosques, Ahmedi patients attacked in hospitals, etc... and even after all this the focus of Pakistanis is on defending the disgusting part of the constitution that says that Ahmedis are kaafir.
lets not be so hypocrites... in US, despite the media and "democracy", muslims are being discriminated, arrested, sent to Guantanamo bay, being harassed in the name of random "security check" etc... and even after all this the focus of Americans is on protecting the building of a mosque.
why can't u just address the issue at hand, everybody knows the problems of pakistan; we are terrorists, oppressors of minorities and women rights but this topic is about the country who is supposed to be beacon of light for other oppressing nations, the country who lets its own soldiers die just to bring the sweet "democrazy" to other countries.
you're proof that GS needs to ask members to take English and IQ tests before being allowed to post.
lol........Is that all you could come up with?
Answer one thing:
Why you brought the examples when the discussion was not even close to anyone being killed in the name of relgion or any religious place was burned out of hatred in USA?
Was there any comparison to begin with or you have one track mind?
^ So you would be ok if Muslims are killed in America, only because some so-called Muslims kill Christians in Pakistan?
neither action is okay. they're both atrocities. but I will make sure I condemn the actions of Muslims before expecting condemnation from Christians. if we only tried to right our actions before expecting others to right theirs, the world would be a much better place.
plus I won't open sarcastic threads to make points about how America isn't really "secular". it's like making fun of someone for falling down when you yourself don't even have any legs to stand on.
lets not be so hypocrites... in US, despite the media and "democracy", muslims are being discriminated, arrested, sent to Guantanamo bay, being harassed in the name of random "security check" etc... and even after all this the focus of Americans is on protecting the building of a mosque.
why can't u just address the issue at hand, everybody knows the problems of pakistan; we are terrorists, oppressors of minorities and women rights but this topic is about the country who is supposed to be beacon of light for other oppressing nations, the country who lets its own soldiers die just to bring the sweet "democrazy" to other countries.
how many innocent people you know have been sent to Gitmo? I'm not defending that place. it's a hell hole and needs to be shut down. but people who were sent there were involved in some shady activity... and needed to be tried. you make it sound like average Muslims are being rounded up and being sent off to concentration camps. what harassment, what discrimination? I don't live in the US. but in Canada there is no systematic harassment/discrimination. Muslims get jobs. they buy houses. they thrive. they don't get stopped because of beards, etc.
btw, where do you live? I sure hope it's not the big bad US. because it would look awfully stupid if you still live in the US despite it being so unbearably horrible.
