Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

**10 Questions About Hadeeth in Islam

  • Yusuf Estes**

I receive a lot of mail questioning the authenticity of Islam from people who are not Muslims or even are trying to attack Islam. Considering the events of these times, this is to be expected. However, it is not often that I receive mail from a Muslim who apparently is making attacks against some of the principle tenants of Islam. The follow questions came in the form of an email from someone claiming to be a Muslim, yet they did not know much about Islam, while claiming to follow the Quran - but not the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. Some of the questions were obviously from someone who had learned at least something about Islam, yet other questions showed a serious lack of reasoning because the questions contradicted other questions. I felt it was important to answer all of these questions with respect and then preserve them for future times for the benefit of others who may encounter the same types of claims against one of the basic tenants of Islam: HADEETH
I have arranged the questions according to logical sequence and have used black type for the questions and brown type for the answers. There were more than ten questions when I divided them into specific topics, so I still call it “Ten Questions About Hadeeth” but there will be a few “bonuses” at the end.


  1. First question:
  • My dilemma is with the additional sources called the Hadith, and the Ahadith. This is confusing.
    Dilemma? Over whether the word is Hadith or Ahadith? That’s no problem. This is the Arabic language. Unlike English that just puts an “s” after a noun, Arabic uses the structure of the word itself to indicate when it is plural and even provides for different types of plurals to distinguish whether someone is referring to one, two or three or more. A Hadith is one, while Ahadith means more than one.
    --------- hadeeth means one, Ahadeeth means plural ----------
    These represent the second source for the Muslim faith and most Muslims place them with equal reverence to the Quran.
    Allah places them alongside the Quran and Muslim SCHOLARS from the generations immediately following the Blessed Prophet, peace be upon him, have preserved and explained them to us.

  1. Second Question:
  • I follow the Quran because for me it is the scripture of my religion with proven authenticity -proven by both its preservation process and also its self proclamations found in certain Suras.
    The Quran specifically orders us to follow the hadeeths. Therefore, if we claim to follow the Quran, we also must follow the hadeeth.
    Examples:
    “And whoever obeys Allah and His mesenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (being saved from the Hell Fire and made to enter the Paradise).” [Quran 33:71]
    “And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to live therein forever, and that will be a great success.” [Quran 4:13]
    “And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger, fears Allah and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.” [Quran 24:52]
    “And whoever obeys Allah and His messenger, He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise); and whoever turns back, He will punish him with a painful torment.” [Quran 48:17]
    "Say, (meaning for Muhammad, peace be upon him, to speak to the people) “If you truly love Allah, then follow me. Then only will Allah love you and forgive your sins. He is the Forgiver the Merciful.” [Quran 3:31]

Here is one verse in the Quran that leaves no doubt about the validity of knowing what Muhammad, peace be upon him, has ordered to do and the importance of doing it. This is in [surah Al-Mujadilah 58:8]
“Have you not seen those who were forbidden to hold secret coucels, and afterwards returned to that which they had been forbidden (to do by the messenger Muhammad, peace be upon him), and conspired together for sin and wrong doing and disobedience to the messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him).” - He promises them Hell, burning therein and worse indeed is that destination. [Quran 58:8]
O you who believe! Obey Allah and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. [Quran 4:59]
Say: “Obey Allah and OBEY THE MESSENGER, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad SAW) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah’s Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way).” [Quran 24:54]
O you who believe! Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) and render not vain your deeds. [Quran 47:33]
Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW), but if you turn away, then the duty of Our Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. [Quran 64:12]

Now pay very close attention to the next two verses, as they do not refer to obeying Allah - only obeying the messenger - clearly proving to anyone that Muhammad, peace be upon him is to be obeyed and it is the same as obeying Allah.
He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed OBEYED ALLAH, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them. [Quran 4:80]
And perform As­Salat (Iqamat­as­Salat), and give Zakat and OBEY THE MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) that you may receive mercy (from Allah). [Quran 24:56]

There can be no doubt that if the Quran is to be preserved (and Allah has promised to do so until the sun rises in the West), then the teachings of the messenger of Allah must also be preserved as well. Therefore, the Quran has clearly indicated we must know about the hadeeth and obey the teachings contained therein, or else suffer the consequences.
To obtain a free Quran online with the search capacity that I used to locate these verses, visit our site and download it:
http://islamtomorrow.com/free/

(please read entire work for the part regarding the hadeeths – this could take a few days by the way)


Third question:
-If I apply the same thought processes to verify these then I am presented with the following difficulties (coming up in the next questions)
If you apply YOUR thought processes to verify these, then you are saying that you are a scholar of Islam and that is very heavy. I personally, am only a student of knowledge and would never begin to “apply my thought process” to what Allah has clearly stated in anyway other than the way that His Messenger clarified it. This can be a major source of misguidance and cause a person to go way off on the deep end..

Fourth question:

  • Mohammed (pbuh) was said to have prevented people from writing his own utterances lest they be confused with Quranic revelation.
    [Note: It is interesting to note the person is quoting from our prophet, peace be upon him, yet you don’t want anyone else to quote from him. How can you use this for a proof and then turn around and deny it at the same time?]
    Whatever Muhammad, peace be upon him, said or did is recorded and it is called a “hadeeth” as mentioned above. As regards your misquote of the hadeeth, he did instruct some of this companions not to write anything down during his lifetime so that it would not be misunderstood by those to be something from the Quran and might mix the Quran with hadeeth. But did you know that was only to certain people, while at the same time there were several who did continue to write down (with his approval) what he said and did? Also that Abu Bakr, radiallaho anho, tore up many of those when he heard the hadeeth of the prophet saying that if anyone were to attribute to him something that he did not say, that person could then reserve his (or her) seat in the Fire of Hell?
    And people of those times had tremendous memories and they did preserve the Quran completely in their hearts as well as many hadeeth. These were memorized and passed down right alongside the Quran by trusty narrators.

Fifth question:

  • They were not compiled until almost two centuries after the Mohammed (pbuh) died.
    This is not a true statement. As regards your reference to 200 years afterward… I don’t know what you are reading but it is baseless (and as we will see in question #9 this person contradicts himself by claiming that Ali did compile hadeeth at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him).
    During His Lifetime, as I have already mentioned, there were some who did write down things during his time. Consider Musab bin Umayr, may Allah be pleased with him, who had written down the names of all of the munafiqun (hyocrites).
    Here is a list of the first leaders of Islam (khalifs), who were actual close companions of Muhammad, peace be upon him, and some important information they have provided us with.
    1st Khalif After Him (Abu Bakr)
    At the time of the first khalifah, Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, he ordered the Quran to be complied in book form and this was recorded that he did so.

2nd Khalif ('Umar)
Two and half years later, 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, was the Khalifah after the death of Abu Bakr. It is also recorded what he said about what the prophet, peace be upon him, said. All of this was memorized and written down.

3rd Khalif ('Uthman)
After the death of 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, 'Uthman bin Afan, may Allah be pleased with him, became the next khalifah. It is well established that he ordered any copies of Quran to be brought to him and then after comparing what had been memorzied by all the companions, had it written down in one form and destroyed all others. He also established the second adhan for Jummah salat. All of this was written and memorized in detail by companions.

4th Khalif ('Ali)
Ali, was the last of the great leaders of Islam, may Allah be pleased with him. During his khalifate many things took place and a horrible battle occured between the Muslims themselves. Even so, they visit each other at night to compare hadeeths and verify what was said and done by the prophet, peace be upon him.

Scholars of Jurispurdence in Islam (Mathab)

Imam Abu Hanifa, Rahmatulah Alayhi
He was born less than 75 years after Hijrah date. That means the prophet, peace be upon him, had passed away lest than 60 years before that. Abu Hanifa, may Allah’s mercy be with him, knew some of the companions of Muhammad, peace be upon him, personally and he took hadeeths from them. This qualifies him as a second generation of the followers of Muhammad (a tabi). He is one of the greatest and most respected of all scholars in Islam. Today hundreds of millions of Muslims follow the very same hadeeths which the Imam relied on to develop his understanding and teaching of Islam.

Imam Malik (Abu Abdullah)
Next came our beloved and highly respect scholar of Islam, Imam Malik, Rahmatulah Alayhi, (Imam of Medina, 85 years after prophet, peace be upon him). Imam Malik, Rahmatulah Alayhi, was a friend of Abu Hanifa, Rahmatulah Alayhi, and even traveled to him for discussions on many issues. He is known as a follower of a follower of a companion (tabi-tabiyeen) He wrote Al Muwatta, which is still available today in the same original form and it is based on correct hadeeth of the prophet, peace be upon him, and it includes references.

Imam Shafi (Abu Abdullah)
Then came the student of Imam Malik, Muhammad Ibn Idrees As-Shafi, Rahmatulah Alayhi, from Mecca (b. 150 A.H.). He was a very close friend and student of Imam Malik while in Madinah and Imam Malik sent him to learn from the students of Imam Abu Hanifa (His students names were; Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn Hassan). Imam Shafi, Rahmatulah Alayhi, also has a famous work in Islam which has been preserved and revered by scholars ever since his time.

Imam Hanbal (Abu Abdullah)
Another great scholar came during the lifetime of Imam Shafi, Rahmatulah Alayhi, from his own city of Mecca, named Abu Abdullah Ahmad bin Hanbal, Rahmatulah Alayhi. He was a student of Imam Shafi. His works were also based on the teachings (hadeeth) of the prophet, peace be upon him, and the school of Hanbali Fiqh is probably the best known in the Arab world today.

And there are many other scholars who knew the prophet, peace be upon him, and lived long after the prophet, peace be upon him, that passed on very correct hadeeths (Ibn 'Umar; Ibn Abbas; Ayesha; Ibn Mas’ood and others), May Allah be please with them all, ameen.

Sixth question:

  • The hadeeths have many different narrators as sources. Different people have claimed they heard or saw things the same exact way as some other people. How would you explain that?.

If two or more people witness the same event and report on it, wouldn’t that add strength to the authenticity? How is that a detraction in your mind? This should only increase your faith and lessen your doubts.

Seventh question:

  • None of the narrators could have seen the prophet.

Again, this is not true. In fact this is a requirement for it to be a correct hadeeth. The original narrator must have these conditions:
• 1.) Been a Muslim at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him
• 2.) Saw the prophet, peace be upon him
• 3.) Been known for his/her memory
• 4.) Been known integrity & honesty and trustworthiness
• 5.) If they say that they “heard” or “he said” then they must have actually been there to hear it.
• 6.) died as a Muslim

Eighth question:

  • A few hadith contradict the Quran.

This is not true. If a hadeeth appears to contradict the Quran, then it must be either incorrectly stated, quoted or misunderstood, or it is not a correct hadeeth. Each and every hadeeth must be considered on an individual basis. Should a hadeeth contradict the Quran then it would obviously be rejected. We request such “contradictory hadeeths” to be presented for observation rather than referring to “a few hadeeth” - name them next time and give some references, please.

Ninth question:

  • Some hadeeth were selected whilst others were rejected for inferior line of transmission and possible political influences such as rivalries between early Muslim tribes.
    This statement immediately indicates that someone is calling someone a liar. The Quran tells us whoever makes such a statement must bring proof of the other one having lied or been known to lie. And at the same time that person comes under the scrutiny of his/her own character and whether or not he/she has lied or been known to lie. Allah warns on this subject in Surah An-Nur (24) and in Surah Al-Hujjarat (49) and other places in the Holy Quran.

Additionally, the reference here in this question immediately negates an earlier statement that claims nothing was recorded until 200 years later. If the ‘early tribes’ after the prophet, peace be upon him, had the liars or fabricators, then the ahadeeths they mentioned were from their time. True or false?We are able to prove with this question, the person (or persons) offering these “questions” to you are just playing with you.
By the way, I’m from Texas and we know all about them “good 'ol boys” putting something over on the “city boys.” So, pardner - Be careful, it looks to me like someone is trying to poison your drinking water, neighbor.

  1. Tenth question:
    Why is something as important as the declaration of faith not found in the Quran, (The Quran does not say La-illaha-illalaha, “Muhammadan-Rasulullah”) but only in the Hadith instead ?
    IT IS IN THE QURAN. Allah the Almighty, does in fact bear witness in the Quran to the Shahadah. Someone is definitely playing with you. Example: read Quran 63:1; 10:90; 5:73; 3:62, etc.
    We can see now the one sending the questions has not really spent much time reading the Quran, and most likely took the questions from some outside source or perhaps may not even be a Muslim.
    This was sufficient for us to determine the letter was not really about “hadeeth” as much as it was an attempt to discredit something about Islam. And it served to prove the opposite of what it was trying to do, proved the authenticity of Islam, Quran and hadeeth.

Bonus - 11. Eleventh question:- If the Ahadith are authentic than where does God say that He will guarantee to preserve them (this claim is only for the Quran)?
If Allah orders you to obey His messenger, peace be upon him, (which he did many times in the Quran) then how can we do that if we are not able to find any hadeeths?

Bonus - 12. Twelfth question:
Why the hadith of the Shiite sect less valid than the hadith of Sunni sects?
Who said anything about “shiite” or “sunni”? This is not coming from our side, in fact this is something being used very often to try to divide the Muslims against themselves.
Authenticity of hadeeths in Islam are not based on the collectors, such as “Bukhari” or “Muslim,” but rather they are based on the people mentioned in the chain of narrators. Again, if you were to say the followers of Ali, may Allah have mercy on him, collected hadeeths, that would be true.
As a matter of fact, there are hadeeths mentioned in Bukhari’s and Muslim’s collection naming Ali, may Allah have mercy on him, as the prime narrator. Many of the companions of the prophet, peace be upon him, were close to Ali and they did quote things from him. Many more were followers of Ali after the death of the prophet, and they were known as “tabee” or "companions of a companion (in this case, Ali, may Allah have mercy on him). This totally destroys the earlier concept mentioned in your questions regarding “200 years passing before the hadeeths were being collected..” How could you say Ali, may Allah have mercy on him, has quoted the prophet, peace be upon him, yet this is from the time of the prophet, peace be upon him?

(This sounds like someone pulling my leg)

As regards the comment of the authenticity, there is a book held up by the Shiites today called “Al Kafi” and it means “Sufficient” or “Enough For Us.” While reading through some material from the Ayatollah Khomeni in a Shiite Mosque down in Mexico about 10 years ago, I came across the information that there are differences between different verisons at different time periods in the various copies of it, similar to the differences in the versions of the Bible. So, you might like to go ask them how they deal with this issue and ask them to produce their books and show you the origin of them.
Bonus - 13. Thirteenth Question:

  • They glorify Mohammed (pbuh) only. The Quran tells us not to make any distinction between messengers.

Note: I saved this one for the last because of the size of the answer. These are not questions about hadeeth.
First of all, your question is not truthful. Neither the Quran nor the hadeeths “glorify Muhammad only.” The Quran only “Glorifies” Allah. And the hadeeths confirm His Majesty and Honor. The reference to Muhammad, peace be upon him, and all the prophets, peace be upon them, for that matter are referred to as “servants,” “messengers,” and even “slaves” of Allah.

No true Muslim worships Muhammad or anyone else for that matter; only Allah. We say “peace be upon him” after Muhammad, peace be upon him, as well as the other prophets of Allah, but this does not indicate we are glorifying them at all.

We should look to the Quran to better understand this important aspect of how Muslims consider their prophets, peace be upon them all. If you have any doubt whatsoever, read the way Allah speaks about His messenger and how many times the name of “Muhammad”, peace be upon him, appears in the Quran. You can use our website to check it out. Go to:

http://www.TodayIslam.com/quran/
And then in the Word Search box, enter the word: Muhammad
You will find:

Searching for the word “Muhammad”. The word appears in 4 verses.
3.144 Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the a messengers that passed away before him. Is it that if he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. But Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

33.40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

47.2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

48.29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurát; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

OK. Did you get the count? FOUR (4) times. And none of them glorifying Muhammad, rather they are glorifying Allah and making sure you understand that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is only a messenger. In many hadeeths, the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, referred to himself as a “slave” of Allah. That is far from “glorifying” him.

And Noah (peace be upon him), Searching for the word “Noah”. The word appears in 47 verses.

Even Jonah (peace be upon him) is mentioned in good standing as a messenger of Allah, but again - not a “god.”
Searching for the word “Jonah”. The word appears in 4 verses. The same as prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

How about Abraham? (peace be upon him). He is the father of many messengers of Allah through both of his sons, Ismail (peace be upon him), and Isaac. Searching for the word “Abraham”. The word appears in 69 verses. But Abraham (peace be upon him), was never called “god” or “son of god” or anything else that would indicate he was a diety of some kind.

And Moses?
Searching for the word “Moses”. The word appears in 167 verses. Again, spoken of only in the best of terms, but not as a diety.

Adam? He is mentioned exactly 25 times in Quran. He is referred to as being created from the earth and Allah giving him life as a miracle, but again, still not a “god.”

Jesus? Searching for the word “Jesus” (peace be upon him), we find the word exactly the same number of times as we find the word “Adam” (peace be upon him). [size=12]The word appears in 25 verses. (28 if you count his ‘kunyah’ or name given as ‘The Son of Mary’) - Never as “son of a god.”
How about the many wonderful hadeeths of all of the prophets, peace be upon all of them? “Jesus” is mentioned so many times that you can find time to count them all.

But if you would like to try here are a few:

The query search for the word [Jesus] generated the following matches:

The query [Jesus] generated the following matches:

Complete Sahih Bukhari

001.003.097 001.008.345 003.034.425 003.043.656 004.054.429 004.054.462 004.054.506 004.055.568 004.055.607 004.055.608 004.055.640 004.055.644 004.055.645 004.055.647 004.055.648 004.055.649 004.055.650 004.055.651 004.055.652 004.055.653 004.055.655 004.055.656 004.055.657 004.055.658 005.058.227 005.058.284 006.060.003 006.060.105 006.060.149 006.060.150 006.060.236 006.060.238 006.060.239 006.060.264 007.063.209 008.076.533 008.076.570 008.082.817 009.093.507 009.093.532v 009.093.601

Complete Sahih Muslim

001.0293 001.0313 001.0314 001.0316 001.0317 001.0321 001.0322 001.0325 001.0328 001.0352 001.0373 001.0377 001.0378 001.0380 001.0397 004.0918 007.2877 025.5326 030.5834 030.5835 030.5836 030.5840 033.6429 041.6924 041.6931 041.6932 041.6933 041.6934 041.7015 041.7023
Would you like to see the many times the name of prophet Moses (peace be upon him) appears?
The query [Moses] generated the following matches: Complete Sahih Bukhari001.001.003 001.003.074 001.003.078 001.003.097 001.003.123 001.003.124 001.005.277 001.008.345 002.023.423 002.024.553 002.026.626 003.031.222 003.036.467 003.041.594 003.041.595 003.048.849 003.050.888 004.053.378 004.054.429 004.054.462 004.054.498 004.055.574 004.055.581 004.055.605 004.055.607 004.055.608 004.055.609 004.055.610 004.055.612 004.055.613 004.055.616 004.055.617 004.055.619 004.055.620 004.055.621 004.055.622 004.055.626 004.055.647 004.055.648 005.057.056 005.058.227 005.058.279 005.059.288 005.059.624 005.059.625 005.059.700 006.060.003 006.060.133 006.060.162 006.060.202 006.060.236 006.060.249 006.060.250 006.060.251 006.060.260 006.060.261 006.060.262 006.060.323 006.060.337 006.060.478 007.071.606 007.071.648 007.072.795 008.073.085 008.073.122 008.074.306 008.075.348 008.076.524 008.076.525 008.076.570 008.077.611 008.078.656 008.078.665 009.083.052 009.087.111 009.093.507 009.093.524 009.093.532v 009.093.564 009.093.570 009.093.601 009.093.606 009.093.608
Complete Sahih Muslim 001.0309 001.0313 001.0314 001.0317 001.0318 001.0319 001.0320 001.0321 001.0322 001.0328 001.0363 001.0364 001.0373 001.0377 001.0378 001.0380 001.0425 003.0669 004.0918 005.2314 005.2315 006.2518 006.2520 017.4214 019.4458 023.5087 025.5326 030.5849 030.5850 030.5851 030.5852 030.5853 030.5854 030.5858 030.5859 030.5864 030.5865 030.5867 031.5913 031.5914 031.5915 031.5916 033.6409 033.6410 033.6411 033.6412 041.6943

Now how about our prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him)?

The query [Abraham] generated the following matches:

Complete Sahih Bukhari

001.004.140 001.008.345 001.008.389 001.008.395 001.012.754 002.023.468 002.026.653 002.026.655 002.026.656 002.026.670 002.026.671 002.026.690 003.034.339 003.034.420 003.047.803 004.052.139 004.052.143 004.054.429 004.055.568 004.055.569 004.055.570 004.055.571 004.055.572 004.055.573 004.055.574 004.055.575 004.055.577 004.055.578 004.055.579 004.055.581 004.055.582 004.055.583 004.055.584 004.055.586 004.055.587 004.055.588 004.055.589 004.055.590 004.055.591 004.055.596 004.055.603 004.055.607 004.055.647 004.055.648 004.055.656 005.058.169 005.058.227 005.059.410 005.059.584 005.059.635 006.060.003 006.060.010 006.060.011 006.060.061 006.060.086 006.060.087 006.060.149 006.060.210 006.060.211 006.060.216 006.060.236 006.060.264 006.060.291 006.060.292 007.062.021 007.062.155 007.065.336 007.072.795 008.073.101 008.074.313 008.075.374 008.076.533 008.076.570 009.085.082 009.087.171 009.092.433 009.093.507 009.093.532v 009.093.601 009.093.608

David, Solomon, Noah, Yaqub, Israel, Adam and so on are all mentioned in the Quran many times.
Check for yourself in our search engine of hadiths at:

Search Hadiths


Conclusion: Both the Quran and the hadeeth of Islam hold all the prophets (peace be upon them all) in the highest esteem. We are ordered in the Quran not to make any seperation between them in honor and dignity, as regards their character and position with Allah. This is for Allah to determine, not us. The prophets of Islam are all considered to be the very best of all human beings and they do not make the major sins that we are so given to do. Yet, at the same time, Islam does not exalt any of the creation of Allah, even His most esteemed prophets to the level of “god” or “partners with Him” in worship. You might say, Islam puts all the prophets up very high and close to God, but never makes them “god” or “a son of a god.”
It is worth mentioning here, that the mother of Jesus, peace be upon him, is also held in the highest of honor in Islam. Allah has mentioned her in the most glowing of terms, making her the best of all women in creation. She is designated by Allah to be the only woman mentioned by her name (many times) and He even dedicated a chapter of the Quran to her; Surah Mary [Quran 19]. Again, though she is not raised to the level to be worshipped or idolized as saints are in other religions.
I highly recommend that you visit our web pages on this subject in detail. We are linked to over 4,000 data bases around the world including many universities and organizations for the purpose of collecting and classifying information on Islam, particularly hadeeth. So, take a few weeks off from work and do yourself a big favor; get a FREE education in what Islam is really all about, inshallah.
Hadeeth
Thank you for your interesting questions. We pray to Allah to guide you and all of us to believe firmly in Him and to obey His Commandments, as we have been ordered by all of His messengers, ameen.
Peace to all who seek truth,
Yusuf Estes[/size]

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Excellent post!

Wish u'd work on the font colours tho lol...

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

^^

Yeah, it's a very informative post, I read it when it was all black...Now my eyes are buzzing...

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Nice read. I respect Yusuf estes. I know my replying to excerpts does not mean I am conversing with Yusuf estes here however just for the discussion that has been raging on related to ahadith on this forum.

Very true statement however the premise people argue about today is quite different. If the Prophet SAW was in our midst then there is no need for hadith. You follow the Prophet SAW and ask about what are not sure of.

Ahadith were compiled since the Prophet SAW was not in our midst anymore. So the ahadith we read today are not as if we are obeying the messenger SAW verbatim. The ahadith which conform to the Quran, have a proven isnad should be followed.

This is lame answer. I could not have walked away satisfied with this. To think about the works of others is not misguidance. This is the kind of answers I do not like to see, if you cannot give a satisfactory answer do not go about ranting the person is on the deep end of the ocean. If Yusuf Estes had not questioned or applied his though process about his Christian beliefs which I am sure his clergy would have given him a similar answer as he has related here, he never would have reverted to a muslim.

Finally I see something of value.

63:1 is the only verse that speaks of tesifying that Muhammad SAW is the messenger of Allah SWT. The questioner I believe though was asking to show the exact phrase used for Shahada in the Quran, which he did not get answered.

The fact is that the ahadith are not religious scripture revealed by Allah SWT unlike the Quran. They are efforts of knowledgible and respected muslims to preserve as much as possible the historical biography of our Prophet SAW. Indeed they wer gifted indivudals blessed by Allah SWT and we are totally indebted to them for their works however we should not diefy their works as we see many of those who refuse to re-evaluate ahadith do.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

I thought Muslims were supposed to believe that the guidance of Allah was for all times and all people…

So if the Quran tells Muslims to obey the Messenger and as you say it was only for the time that the Messenger was alive, then how many other things do not apply from the Quran in today’s world? How many should be discarded since the Messenger is not alive today?

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Yes it is and you said it GUIDANCE. Its a matter of principle.

I did not say it was only for the time of the Prophet SAW, you misunderstood me. I was contrasting between obeying the messenger SAW in person versus obeying a diary of his actions or words as we term hadith.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

I need more explanation to the bold words and I would appreciate, if you can quote me eg.

Thanks.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

I agree with USR and i believe that we are supposed to follow the Prophet, come what may.

The biggest problem with Hadith defenders is that they label on skeptics the charge of being heretic and denying prophets orders which is not the case. The issue is that whether he ever said that or not. Hazorr-e-Pak got the Quran written himeslf through Hazrat Hassan bin Sabit or many other companions but why did he order not to write Hadith, If Allah has promised the status of Quran, was he not trusting it and going over board. This is a lame reason. We the Skeptics do not reject Ahadith and read them and revere them. The issue at hand is that on one person down the chain listened something from prophet which was supposedly forbidding something. If it was important Hazoor-e-Pak would have told that in the sermons which are accurately recorded because many thousands people listened to them.

To me the issue like forbiffing the plucking of eyebrows of women is a non issue. If the prophet wanted to forbade it, he would have done it openly and before anyone asking for it. Just because some person did not like this act, he narrated that i heard from falaan who heard from falaan sahabi that prophet said that. Why there are no more witness to that statement.

There is no blanket rejection going on. what i am saying is that we have to see the individual merit in each case.

Can anyone give the statistics of there are how many total hadith declared as Sahih or Zaeef or Ghareeb etc etc. Who has narrated the most and who has narrated none however he was a close companion of Prophet. How many narrated by Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Umar? They were his most close companions.

The logic that same people who transmitted Quran transmitted Hadith is not truly applicable. Quran was written in Prophets time and properly compiled and finalized in Hazrat Abu Bakar's time. Sahih Bukhari was compiled long after that. I would Trust Mautta Imam Malik over Sahih Bukhari as Hazrat Malik's time was earlier still our fellows call Sahih Bukhari as the most authentic book after Quran. It is actually this title that has created problem

Any one dare to explain Waqiya Qartas narrated in Sahih Bukjari. If bukhari is so correct why Sunnies avoid discussing this statement.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

YOu totally got it wrong here, my brother. I will let you know sometime later regarding this please do wait for my reply.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

ASA

Long time no see Br. When I say religious scripture meaning like the Quran, something that was revealed verbatim to Prophet SAW. It is true that following the Sunnah through studying the ahadith is akin to understanding the Quran however hadith are historical accounts of the Sunnah of Prophet SAW but revealed scripture unless someone here can prove otherwise. The sunnah of the Prophet SAW demonstrates how to apply the Quran in our real lives. Do we know everything about the Prophet SAW, no. We know quite a bit through the ahadith but not all. A lot has also been rejected and lost. All we can do is BELIEVE that what was rejected did not contain some genuine things. In the hadith there are still a few things that are just ahead of our time and we cannot understand them. This is where our faith comes in. There are a few things about the Prophet SAW time in the hadith i.e. the hadith about the pen and inkpot being a famous example; that we should understand and analyze.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

ASA

Br. MKF, just commenting on this one statement. As far as I know the reason the Muwwatta is not included in the Siha Sitta is that all the ahadith from Muwwatta can be found in Muslim and Bukhari, I have not sat down and verified this though however this is what is commonly said.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Challenge to USR and MKF who says that hadees are not the revelations and so Allah have not saved them with Quran
and my challenge also to Imran jaff to answer this, if he will not find answer , my advise to him that he should say shadaha and enter islam

002.143
YUSUFALI: Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.

where in the whole Quran , Allah appointed the first Qibla, but in this verse he SWT is refering that he appointed that qiblah

where is that verse , if only Quran is the revelation and hadees is not , then find out that verse

the Above verse surely describes that there are other revelations to Hazoor PBUH along with Quran , so Quran is not the only revelation and hadees are also the revelations of Allah SWT
Hazoor PBUH have never said anything from his own , he was always guided by Allah SWT
so now if any one says that Ahadees are not revelations , then he is surely on wrong path
Allah have saved Ahadees along with Quran
so now lets all of us do astaghfar and pray to Allah to always show us the straight path and keep us on that
because in Quran
002.160YUSUFALI: Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth). These it is toward whom I relent. I am the Relenting, the Merciful.

Muslim follow quran o hadees and modernist follow the followings of Bush and MUsh

for us Allah hi kafi hay

May Allah show us the straight path
Ameen

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

my brother you are wrong here
It is interesting to note you are quoting from our prophet, peace be upon him, yet you don't want anyone else to quote from him. How can you use this for a proof and then turn around and deny it at the same time?

Whatever Muhammad, peace be upon him, said or did is recorded and it is called a "hadeeth" as mentioned above. As regards your misquote of the hadeeth, he did instruct some of this companions not to write anything down during his lifetime so that it would not be misunderstood by those to be something from the Quran and might mix the Quran with hadeeth. But did you know that was only to certain people, while at the same time there were several who did continue to write down (with his approval) what he said and did? Also that Abu Bakr, radiallaho anho, tore up many of those when he heard the hadeeth of the prophet saying that if anyone were to attribute to him something that he did not say, that person could then reserve his (or her) seat in the Fire of Hell?
And people of those times had tremendous memories and they did preserve the Quran completely in their hearts as well as many hadeeth. These were memorized and passed down right alongside the Quran by trusty narrators.

and at the same time , many sahaba even at time compiled many hadees in the form of books , so this is the lame excuse asked again and again without studing islam

[quote]

, If Allah has promised the status of Quran, was he not trusting it and going over board. This is a lame reason.
[/qutoe]
Allah have saved the status of Quran and Hadees , if you say me wrong then answer to my challenge above

[quote]

We the Skeptics do not reject Ahadith and read them and revere them. The issue at hand is that on one person down the chain listened something from prophet which was supposedly forbidding something. If it was important Hazoor-e-Pak would have told that in the sermons which are accurately recorded because many thousands people listened to them.

To me the issue like forbiffing the plucking of eyebrows of women is a non issue. If the prophet wanted to forbade it, he would have done it openly and before anyone asking for it. Just because some person did not like this act,** he narrated that i heard from falaan who heard from falaan sahabi that prophet said that. Why there are no more witness to that statement.**

**
[/quote]
**
again and again you people come with your own thoughts without studying how hadees have been saved
go and check first
this is totally a lame excuse based on imagination

**
[quote]
**
There is no blanket rejection going on. what i am saying is that we have to see the individual merit in each case.

[/quote]

then you have to study islam from islamic point of view , you can't understand islam by just listening the enemies of islam like bush and mush

[quote]

Can anyone give the statistics of there are how many total hadith declared as Sahih or Zaeef or Ghareeb etc etc. Who has narrated the most and who has narrated none however he was a close companion of Prophet. How many narrated by Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Umar? They were his most close companions.

[/quote]

go and check the books of hadees because you don't trust sahabas then how you will trust us

[quote]

The logic that same people who transmitted Quran transmitted Hadith is not truly applicable. Quran was written in Prophets time and properly compiled and finalized in Hazrat Abu Bakar's time. Sahih Bukhari was compiled long after that.

[/quote]

Hadees were also compiled in form of books during time of Hazoor PBUH
shayeh sitta are not only the books of hadees, but they are considered to highly regarded because of the effort on that

[quote]

I would Trust Mautta Imam Malik over Sahih Bukhari as Hazrat Malik's time was earlier still our fellows call Sahih Bukhari as the most authentic book after Quran. It is actually this title that has created problem

[/quote]

every book has different reason, don't mix them up

[quote]

Any one dare to explain Waqiya Qartas narrated in Sahih Bukjari. If bukhari is so correct why Sunnies avoid discussing this statement.
[/quote]

give the exact hadees , i will give you the explanation of that
go and bring that

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

No body stops you from quoting prophet. Only request is that do not pass verdict of Hurmat only on some unverified Hadith (single chain).

Did he say that?

That why we should be so conscious before playing with Hadith. Lest we might transgress into Allah's authority (declaration of Halaal & Haraam).

Side by side with memory Quran was present as one compiled document while Hadith were scattered everywhere so collection was bound to introduce errors.

Quote their names.

We are just posing few questions and you blame us to be heretics.

Have i mentioned any one as source anywhere?

Baseless excuse once you do not have any answer.

As i said above, name a few.

How i did that? Elaborate.


I will do in some future post.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Moderator please join this thread with the other Hadith thread.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

SOA i will wait. Usman i never denied that Hadith are not reveleations but their safety like previous scriptures is not guarenteed so Hadith in their present form are not guarented revealations. So we need to make our criterias of filtering more stringent.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

Challenge accepted though you do not need to challege me. Its not as if I am rejecting ahadith however like the typical mullah crowd you are stereotyping me. Anyway on we go.

Subhanallah! I know you are a knowledgible brother. Let me first ask this before we go forth. I am not skirting the issue just trying to build some ground for the discussion. Assuming all ahadith are revelation, what is the difference between the Quran and the Ahadith? In what form were the ahadith revealed to the Prophet SAW. In case of the Quran we know it came through Angel Gabriel, dreams and inspiration. When it came though inspiration it would be visible and signs of receiving revelation would be immeinent on the Prophet SAW e.g. heavily perspiring even in cold weather, ringing of a bell to him. So first let us establish what is meant by revelation here. Please answer.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

if i am thinking you wrong then plz forgive me as i am messed up with so many things that i am not being able to judge clearly

[quote]

I am not skirting the issue just trying to build some ground for the discussion. Assuming all ahadith are revelation, what is the difference between the Quran and the Ahadith?

[/quote]

  1. Quran first authentic source for muslim
  2. Hadees comes 2nd after Quran now lets move forward

[quote]

In what form were the ahadith revealed to the Prophet SAW. In case of the Quran we know it came through Angel Gabriel, dreams and inspiration.

[/quote]

every revelation from Allah as far as my knowledge is concerned came through Angel Gabriel both Quran and Hadees
but i will search more for your satisfaction as well

[quote]

When it came though inspiration it would be visible and signs of receiving revelation would be immeinent on the Prophet SAW e.g. heavily perspiring even in cold weather, ringing of a bell to him

[/quote]

quote any verse ,to whom verse you are refering

[quote]

. So first let us establish what is meant by revelation here. Please answer.
[/quote]

i have given as far as my limited knowledge is concernend


now answering to MKF

we can't if that is sahih
because
in Quran chapter 59 verse number 7
So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.
اور جو دے تم کو رسول تو لے لو اور جس سے منع کرے سو چھوڑ دو

after so much clear cut message of Allah how can't we pass verdict of Hurmat only because we don't like that hadees

book , kitabat , third way by which Allah saved the Ahadees
because Hazoor PBUH said
in Abub Dawood fi ilm Hay 3161
سب کچھ لکھ لیا کرو میں اس ذات کی قسم کھاتا ھوں جس کے قبضھ میں میری چان ھے اس س زبان سے حق کے سوا کچھ نھیں نکلتا
ابوداود فی العلم ح ۳۱۶۱
naming few of thoes books

  1. Book of Hazrat Abdullah bin Umroo RA 2 Books of Hazrat Abu Hurira RA 3 Book of Hazrat Ans RA

by start comparing these books , although the purpose of these books are different , i have already told you in an other thread

take care

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

We are muslim brothers. I have nothing against you. I am just trying to discuss here.

If it all was revelation there should not be different grades of authenticity. We do not go about calssifying Surahs or verses in Quran as we classify the ahadith. If it really is revelation then who are we to classify it of lesser grade than Quran.

Please do research. Ahadith are a mixture of different forms of reporting and yes they do include some revelations whose means of revelation to the Prophet SAW is not known (as far as my knowledge goes). For instance all the ahadith related to Dajjal and Yajuj Majuj seem to fantastical however we possibly do not understand them because they are ahead of their time. All we know is that the Prophet SAW reported this and this is known from ahadith only. What was the source of origin we do not know, meaning how did the prophet SAW come about with this knowledge we do not have reports to that effect unlike in the case of Quran we know the methods of revelation.

The answer to this is quite interesting. The forms of revelation (as far as I can remember) are only mentioned through the hadith. There is not verse in the Quran on this subject. I may be wrong and my memory may not serve me well at this time, if someone knows of a verse please quote it. So hadith mentions the forms of revelation for the Quran but not the hadith itself.

I am also limited in knowledge and am a seeker of knowledge. I do like to ponder and think though about what I am believing and to what extent I should believe about what I believe. Some times people misconstrue this and start getting emotional and stereotyping (this is what I do not like). I am always ready to have a reasonable discussion.

Re: Answering 10 Questions regarding Hadees

okey

[quote]

If it all was revelation there should not be different grades of authenticity.

[/quote]

but we didn't grade but graded by Allah , by combining some in form of Quran ie wahih Matlo , were as left others ie wahih gher matlo to check , who follow Hazoor PBUH and who rejects
see here
002.143
YUSUFALI: Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.

surely describing the purposes of Gher matlo ie Hadees

[quote]

We do not go about calssifying Surahs or verses in Quran as we classify the ahadith. If it really is revelation then who are we to classify it of lesser grade than Quran.

[/quote]

these are the classification by Allah SWT by deciding which revelation is for Quran and which for not , so for checking anything we first go to the Quran if anything not found there , we go to the Hadees

[quote]

Please do research. Ahadith are a mixture of different forms of reporting and yes they do include some revelations whose means of revelation to the Prophet SAW is not known (as far as my knowledge goes). For instance all the ahadith related to Dajjal and Yajuj Majuj seem to fantastical however we possibly do not understand them because they are ahead of their time.

[/quote]

similarly many ayat of Quran as well we don't know their meanings similar to the Dajjal and Yajuj Majuj
for example the beast of the earth
027.082
YUSUFALI: And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs.
PICKTHAL: And when the word is fulfilled concerning them, We shall bring forth a beast of the earth to speak unto them because mankind had not faith in Our revelations.

but surely that is also undescriblable like Dajjal and Yajuj Majuj
and reference to Dajjal and Yajuj Majuj are not zaeef , they are sahih and multichained and by ulmmah's statements that aggrements of so many ravi's on this surely describe that this can't be false. some one would have said them wrong if that would have been Ghareeb hadees but in this case it is not

[quote]

All we know is that the Prophet SAW reported this and this is known from ahadith only. What was the source of origin we do not know, meaning how did the prophet SAW come about with this knowledge we do not have reports to that effect unlike in the case of Quran we know the methods of revelation.
The answer to this is quite interesting. The forms of revelation (as far as I can remember) are only mentioned through the hadith. There is not verse in the Quran on this subject. I may be wrong and my memory may not serve me well at this time, if someone knows of a verse please quote it. So hadith mentions the forms of revelation for the Quran but not the hadith itself.

[/quote]

Hadees also describe the mentioning of form of revelation of itself as well
ie Hazoor PBUH have talked Jabrael on many topics which are not in Quran
for example of wakia of Taif if i am not wrong and many others etc

ya , i remember one other form of revelation of Hadees to Hazoor PBUH is in the form of true dreams more then once
like that mention in sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15
which is about the Hazrat Ayesha given to Hazoor PBUH in silk cloth
and many others
i have limited knowledge so i am unable to unswer completely