Majority of muslims when they recite surah Al-Fatiha, in the end they loudly say " Ameen" Where did this garbage come from? Who added this word to the end of this surah? Another example of contamination of the religion by these dirty, foul smelling, ill-mannered, illiterate and in some cases blind, self proclaimed custodians of Islam.
Punjabi Kurhi
amy it is a good thing to point out facts but it is NOT GOOD THING to use such harsh words.
[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
**Majority of muslims when they recite surah Al-Fatiha, in the end they loudly say " Ameen" Where did this garbage come from? Who added this word to the end of this surah? Another example of contamination of the religion by these dirty, foul smelling, ill-mannered, illiterate and in some cases blind, self proclaimed custodians of Islam.
**
[/quote]
Do you know what "ameen" means?
What sect do you adhere to?
[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**
Do you know what "ameen" means?
What sect do you adhere to?**
[/quote]
Control yourself, question is who modified quran. I don't see Ameen at the end of this surah. I don't adhere to any sect. That will be defying the word of God and totally against quran.
Punjabi Kurhi
[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 10, 2001).]
Amy, there are allots of things which prophet did and are not part of Koraan.
Ameen was practiced by Prophet Muhammad(saw) and we Muslims have proof to uphold that action. Please see these books:
When he (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) finished reciting al- Faatihah, he would say:
("aameen") loudly, prolonging his voice
Bukhaari in Juz' al-Qiraa'ah & Abu Daawood with a saheeh isnaad.
He also used to order the congregation to say aameen: When the imaam says,
"Not of those who receive (Your) anger, nor of those who go astray", then say "aameen" for the angels say "aameen" and the imaam says aameen", so he whose aameen coincides with the aameen of the angels (in another narration: when one of you says "aameen" in prayer and the angels in the sky say "aameen", and they coincide), his past sins are forgiven.150 In another hadeeth: ... then say aameen; Allaah will answer you.
Ref: Bukhaari , Muslim, Nasaa'i, & Daarimi; the additional wordings are reported by the latter two, and prove that this hadeeth cannot justify that the imaam does not say aameen, as reported from Maalik; hence, Ibn Hajar says in Fath al-Baari, "It clearly shows that the imaam says aameen." Ibn Abdul Barr says in Tamheed (7/13), "It is the view of the majority of the Muslims, including Maalik as the people of Madeenah report from him, for it is authentic from Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahualaihi wa sallam) through the ahaadeeth of Abu Hurairah (i.e. this one) and that of Waa'il ibn Hujr (i.e. the previous one)."
Muslim & Abu `Awaanah.
He also used to say: The Jews do not envy you over anything as much as they envy you over the salutation and aameen [behind the imaam]
Bukhaari in al-Adab al-Mufrad, Ibn Maajah, Ibn Khuzaimah, Ahmad & Siraaj with two saheeh isnaads.
I am sure you will say you don’t believe in those books hence you don’t believe what they say. But we believe in those books and that is why we say Ameen because Prophet(saw) said so.
The meaning of the word ameen is “please answer”. For more information (if that is what you want) please visit:
http://www.mosque.com/ch1.html
Let me just clear the things one more time. I don’t believe in any thing about the religion written by any human being. After the last sermon of the prophet, all messages from God have ended.
Punjabi Kurhi
Amy, those books have documented the way and life of Prophet(saw). Those books do not creat new jurisprudence in Islam, they only tell us the life of prophet Muhammed(saw). Now which Muslim is so stupid not to want to know the life and way of Prophet Muhammed(saw)? There are no other books to tell you how prophet Muhammed(saw) performed certain actions and what he did and how he did.
Now, you can pray however you like according to your will. But a Muslim person is one who follows Islam in a civilized way. He follows some principles set by Mohammed(saw) that this is how prayer should be carried out.
Ameen means 'A supplication meaning, "O Allah, respond (to or answer what we have said)."'
Surah Al-Fatiha is basically a prayer
wait lemme do a translation
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
The Beneficent, the Merciful
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
Show us the straight way,
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
alrite now read very carefully
whoever is reciting the surah is asking Allah to guide em, show them the right path, and keep them away from sins
the word Ameen is not included in the Surah
but it is used as an end
like when we pray to Allah or do Duas and stuff we say Ameen at the end because we want him to respond to our prayers
nobody is saying its written in the Quran
Its a Dua and Ameen is said as an ending that I have done my dua now kindly respong please
Dear amy
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
The usage of the word Ameen is quite pertinent once you consider the situation within which it is employed.
Surah Al-Faatihah, as you know, is recited during prayers during the beginning of Qiyaam. It is also placed at the beginning of the Qur’an. The cited objection to the usage of Ameen regarding the inclusion of Surah Al-Faatihah is due to a slight misconception of its role. The Surah is actually a supplication by man to God. The whole remainder of the Qur’an is actually a response to that supplication. This is why Surah Al-Faatihah is placed at the beginning of the Qur’an itself. And this is why the word Ameen is used in order to request that response. Whenever you recite the Qur’an, it is not a one way communication. Effectively, you are engaging in a conversation with The Almighty. It is a two way dialogue.
An example may make this more clear. As you know, it is obligatory to recite Surah Al-Faatihah during prayers. When you recite the Qur’an, for example during Sala’h, it signifies a dialogue between man and God, rather than a one-way communication. During the Qiyaam, it is quite evident that we recite Surah Al-Faatihah as a supplication to God for our guidance to the straight path and conclude it with the word Ameen. Thus the recitation of the Qur’an that follows the recitation of Surah Al-Faatihah is not a continuation of our supplication for guidance but, on the contrary, a response to it. This recitation of a part of the Qur’an, as a response to our supplication for guidance to the path of eternal success, signifies the Islamic belief that, with the advent of the last Prophet (pbuh), the Qur’an is the only reliable path to eternal success and salvation. This explanation should also explain the recitation of Surahs like Surah Al-Ikhlaas, which are addressed not to God, but to man in response to his supplication for guidance. This is why the beginning of Surah Al-Ikhlaas, begins with the word “Say…” in response to the supplication of Surah Al-Faatihah.
But that is not to say I’m not wrong.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
But I hope this will help.
The Learner](http://http//www.understanding-islam.com)
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
Mr. Partypooper:
If the Almighty wanted it, he would have put it there for us to say.
Punjabi Kurhi
Now, you can pray however you like according to your will. But a Muslim person is one who follows Islam in a civilized way. He follows some principles set by Mohammed(saw) that this is how prayer should be carried out.
Thank you for allowing me to pray however I want. A true muslim is one who prays as written in Quran. He/She follows what's written in Quran and discards the garbage written by humans.
Punjabi Kurhi
[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
**
Thank you for allowing me to pray however I want. A true muslim is one who prays as written in Quran. He/She follows what's written in Quran and discards the garbage written by humans.
**
[/quote]
Where in Koraan is the detail of prayer written? Allaah tells us to read namaaz, he doesn't tell us HOW to read it.
Moreover, you are suppose to perform namaaz like Prophet(saw) did, not HOWEVER YOU want to. That is not Islam, that is following your own will against the will of Allaah and Muhammed(saw) and that is biggest sin you can commit.
As I said, you follow some principles, some quidence when practicing Islam. Those principles were/are set by Muhammed(saw) and you are required to follow them. I asked you some other things too(do you care to read others reply fully before replying?)
[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
** and discards the garbage written by humans.
**
[/quote]
Agreed. Garbage written by humans should be thrown out.
However, the words and actions of the Prophet (SAWS) must NOT be thrown out too - as I have said before, the Quran commands us to obey not only Allah, but also the Prophet (SAWS) and do as he did.
Hence the Hadith - WORDS OF THE PROPHET (SAWS)
and the Sunnah - ACTIONS OF THE PROPHET (SAWS)
Amy, do you claim that what the Prophet (SAWS) said and did is of no importance whatsoever? Or do you merely doubt the accuracy of the records of some of these sayings and actions? In the case of the latter, do you not feel that those sayings and actions of the Prophet (SAWS) that are true must be followed?
[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 10, 2001).]
This is an interesting issue. Hadith entails invaluable information about the life, times, general teachings and practices of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as information about the prevalent socio-religious and socio-moral environment. It is the primary and the most authentic source of the Seerah of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as that of Muslim history of the time of the inception of the Muslim Ummah. Ignoring this aspect of these teachings would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
However, I reject the idea of blindly accepting all the hadith since, being works of man, some may be contrary to the content entailed by the Qur’an and the Sunnah. The compilation of these books was never sanctioned by the Prophet. Hadith that are clearly contrary to the Qur’an and Sunnah should be rejected without question whatsoever.
Therefore, it is my humble opinion that we should try to keep the baby, and throw as much of the bathwater out as possible.
The correct stance, in my opinion, should have considered the following points:
[list=1]
[li]The Qur’an and the Sunnah entail the complete content of Islam. Nothing from outside these sources can add, reduce, abrogate or, in any other way, alter the contents of the Qur’an and the Sunnah. It may also be added here that the complete structure of Islam and Islamic teachings, whether relating to Islamic beliefs or the practical aspects in its teachings, is entailed in the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). The transmission of neither of these sources (neither the Qur’an, nor the Sunnah) is dependent upon the transmission of Hadith. The Qur’an was transmitted by the consensus of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) and the verbal perpetuation of the generation of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as that of all subsequent generations of Muslims. The Sunnah, on the other hand, has been transmitted by the consensus of the Companions and the practical perpetuation of the generation of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as that of all the subsequent generations of the Muslims. [/li]
[li]Hadith, in most cases, is a saying ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), which may or may not actually be a saying of the Prophet (pbuh). Due to this reason, Hadith should only be accepted as a correct ascription of a saying to the Prophet (pbuh), if it has reached us through reliable sources and if it does not contain anything contrary to the Qur’an, the Sunnah and any established and acknowledged fact.[/li]
[li]If a Hadith is neither contrary to the Qur’an, the Sunnah and any established and acknowledged fact and nor does it add anything to the basic structure of Islam, then it may be accepted as correctly ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh).[/li]
[li]Hadith entails invaluable information about the life, times, general teachings and practices of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as information about the prevalent socio-religious and socio-moral environment. It is the primary and the most authentic source of the Seerah of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as that of Muslim history of the time of the inception of the Muslim Ummah. [/li][/list=a]
A point of view based on the recognition of these points, in my opinion, would be secure from extremities.
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited June 10, 2001).]
My apologies. With reference to your query, you may ignore my reply on the role of Surah Al-Fatihah.
I have looked into the matter of the usage of the word Ameen in a little more detail on its meaning. As it turns out, the word Ameen in Hebrew means " I second it". In other words, believers second what is said by the Imam.
I hope this adequately clarifies amy's opening question.
They shoot partypoopers, don't they?
[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited June 11, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Partypooper:
*My apologies. With reference to your query, you may ignore my reply on the role of Surah *Al-Fatihah.
I have looked into the matter of the usage of the word Ameen in a little more detail on its meaning. As it turns out, the word Ameen in Hebrew means " I second it". In other words, believers second what is said by the Imam.
I hope this adequately clarifies amy's opening question.
**
[/quote]
I know what the word means and i don't need clarifications on thing s like this. My point is contamination of Quran and adding words to it as if God doesn't see or hear.
Punjabi Kurhi
As I understood it, you original question pertains to whether the role of the word Ameen is justified or not.
If, however, your point was about the addition of the word Ameen to the Qur'an then I think that I have obviously have completely misunderstood your query. My apologies. I could see no instance of any disagreement among us all about the word Ameen not being in the Qur'an.
If you believe that the use of the word Ameen is not justified then why is that a problem for you? Just because we differ on little things like these does not lend itself to petty argument. We agree to disagree. Simple as that.
They shoot partypoopers, don't they?
[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited June 11, 2001).]