Angels in Religion

F.O.B · September 27, 2005, 11:41am

This is a general question covering all religions that have angels.
Why does God need angels? My question is based on the fact that God is so poweful that he says and it becomes so with so much power whats the use of angels?
And now getting into the Western religions:
Satan was an angel and then he turned bad, so what stops other angels from turning bad? What do the holy books say about angels?

armughal · September 27, 2005, 11:50am

Re: Angels in Religion

Satan was not an angel (atleast not in Islam)....
i dont think christians or jews believe he was an angel either....

how God has created angels, is liked a programmed machine, they do what they r programmed to do, nothing more nothing less....

why God uses them to do things?
well thats the He wants to do it, so we cant question it....
why does God need to create us even????
He wanted to create angels so He did, just like He has created so many other things....

angels turning bad (fallen angels, Harot and Marot story of angels turning bad) i think have some base in christian belief....
but i think (just what i think) that christianity too believes angels to be creations of God that do not disobey God....

F.O.B · September 27, 2005, 12:04pm

Re: Angels in Religion

^^ Thank you. I thought Satan was an angel that refused to bow down and acknowledge Adam and hence God ejected him from heaven as well and told him that he will cause dissent on the planet earth or something. Can you please verify, I think it is in the old testament, but I am not sure.

doc2000 · September 27, 2005, 12:26pm

Re: Angels in Religion

I think (could be wrong) that satan refusd to bow before adam (AH) for 2 reasons.

1- satan was made of fire and adam(AH) of clay.
2-satan was well respected by others (angels,jinns etc) and given a position of authority at the time,therefore felt it below him and inappropriate o bow before adam(AH)....my understanding!!

F.O.B · September 27, 2005, 12:44pm

Re: Angels in Religion

^^So was satan an angel or not? and if he was made of fire AND was an angel, then is it that all angels are made of fire?

system · September 27, 2005, 1:01pm

Re: Angels in Religion

I think I read somewhere that when earth was created, Satan wanted to rule there.

When Adam (as) was created, satan wouldn't bow because he was made of clay and satan was extremely jealous when Adam (as) was the one who got to live on earth.

I once read somewhere satan was actually a jinn. But if it's true, I have no idea.

doc2000 · September 27, 2005, 1:40pm

Re: Angels in Religion

No FOB. the reason why i have'nt mentioned that satan was not an angel is b'cos i thought it was common knowedge that angels were made of "noor" (light)..i believe the christians also believe this..So if satan is made of fire and angels of noor, then he can't be an angel can he?

F.O.B · September 27, 2005, 1:53pm

Re: Angels in Religion

^ who knows what God had in mind. I am going to look up the Satan being an angel on google, I thought someone on the forum might have had some insight to this.

doc2000 · September 27, 2005, 2:41pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Let us know the outcome of your research FOB.

system · September 27, 2005, 3:18pm

Re: Angels in Religion

F.O.B Satan or Ibless is a Jinn. Not an angel, however there was a time when he was extremely pious. His pride however caused his downfall when he refused to bow down to Prophet Adam alaih salam.

ahmadjee · September 27, 2005, 3:49pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Satan and Ibless is not the same thing.

If someone can quote all the verses concerning Ibless and Satan, one can easily notice that whenever the incident of 'not bowing down' is mentioned, Ibless is the culprit, not Satan. Satan is the creature (from man, jinn or else) who corrupted Hazrat Adam (as) to eat the forbidden tree, not Iblees.

I don't think they can be used interchangeably.

JeevayPakistan · September 27, 2005, 4:00pm

Re: Angels in Religion

I think Iblis is a person or a group of people who disobeyed the first prophet Hadhrat Adam :as: because they thought that they were superior to him in all their worldly aspects. And this was their arrogance and jealousy that Quran is talking about as compared to humbleness of Adam. That is why Iblis is said to be made of ‘Fire’ (Arrogance + jealousy), and Adam is made of clay (Humbleness + piousness).

Since then, whenever a prophet of Allah appears, same Iblis like people take stand against him in every respect. But Allah is with His prophet. And it is the prophet who prospers and all Iblis and His likes see the wrath of God.

system · September 27, 2005, 5:17pm

Re: Angels in Religion

There's not much room for thought here.

Shaitan and Iblees are one and the same thing, however Shaitan seems to be also used in general for any follower of Iblees.

Armughal can perhaps shed more light on this.

Sadiyah · September 27, 2005, 7:36pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Absolutely!

ahmadjee · September 27, 2005, 7:39pm

Re: Angels in Religion

How?? Just cos? You guys are amazing.

Sadiyah · September 27, 2005, 7:50pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Here’s what I could find on Iblees being one of the Jinns.

 Praise be to Allaah.   

 Iblees was definitely not one of the angels. This is indicated by three things: the clear texts of the Qur’aan, the physical attributes of Iblees and the attitude of Iblees.  

 1 – With regard to the clear statements of the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

 “And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.’ So they prostrated themselves except Iblees (Satan). He was one of the jinn”

 [al-Kahf 18:50] 

 Al-Hasan al-Basri said: Iblees was never one of the angels, not even for an instant. He is the father of the jinn, just as Adam (peace be upon him) is the father of mankind. 

 This was narrated by al-Tabari with a saheeh isnaad as stated by Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer, 3/89. 

 2 – With regard to his physical attributes, Allaah stated that He created him from fire. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

 “He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery.

 And the jinn He created from a smokeless flame of fire”

 [al-Rahmaan 55:14, 15] 

 and it was narrated in Saheeh Muslim (2996) from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The angels were created from light, the jinn were created from smokeless fire, and Adam was created from that which has been described to you.” 

 So it is clear that there is a difference between the physical nature of the angels and that of Iblees, and he is definitely not one of them. 

 3 – With regard to his attitude, Iblees disobeyed Allaah by not prostrating to Adam, but we know from the Qur’aan that it is impossible for the angels to disobey Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

 “…angels stern (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allaah, but do that which they are commanded”

 [al-Tahreem 66:6] 

 Some reports which are not saheeh have been narrated from some of the salaf, suggesting that Iblees was the best of the angels, that he was one of the keepers of Paradise, etc. Imaam Ibn Katheer commented on that by saying: 

 Many reports to that effect have been narrated from the salaf, but most of them come from the Isra’eeliyyaat (reports narrated from Jewish sources) which were narrated to be examined. Allaah knows best about the true status of many of them. There are some which can be rejected out of hand because they go against the truth that we have before us. In the Qur’aan there is sufficient information that we have no need of earlier reports, because hardly any of them are free from alterations, additions and subtractions, and many things have been fabricated in them. The earlier nations did not have scholars to examine these reports and eliminate those which are not sound, as  this ummah has its imams and scholars who have great knowledge and are pious and righteous, who wrote down the hadeeth and examined it and showed what is sound and what is not, and what is fabricated, identifying the fabricators, liars and those narrators who were unknown, and other categories of narrators. All of that was to protect the status of the Prophet, the Seal of the Prophets and the leader of mankind (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), lest any lie be attributed to him and lest anything be attributed to him that he did not say or do. May Allaah be pleased with them and make them please and make the Paradise of al-Firdaws their abode. 

 Tafseer al-Qur’aan il-‘Azeem, 3/90.

Source: Iblees was not one of the angels

ahmadjee · September 27, 2005, 7:52pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Sadiyah, this still doesn't prove Iblees is Satan.

Sadiyah · September 27, 2005, 7:57pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Referring to the earlier post, to the best of my knowledge, it was Iblees who whispered to Adam (AS) to eat the forbidden fruit. Iblees is one of the shaitaan and there are many other shaitaans as well.

ahmadjee · September 27, 2005, 8:02pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Not it was Satan.

[2:36/37] But Satan caused them both to slip by means of it and drove them out of the state in which they were. And We said, 'Go forth hence; some of you are enemies of others and for you there is an abode in the earth and a provision for a time.'

[7:20/21] But satan made evil suggestions to them so that he might make known to them what was hidden from them of their shame and said, 'Your Lord has only forbidden you this tree, lest you become angels or lest you become of the immortals.'

[7:27/28] O children of Adam, let not Satan seduce you, even as he turned your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment that he might show them their nakedness. Truly, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you see them not. Surely, We have made Satan friends of those who believe not.

[20:120/121] But Satan whispered evil suggestions to him. He said, 'O Adam, shall I direct thee to the tree of eternity, and to a kingdom that never decays?'

gupguppy · September 27, 2005, 8:12pm

Re: Angels in Religion

Iblis is a jinn ("he was one of the jinn" Qur'an 18:50)

Iblis and al Shaytan (along with his minions) are similarly described in the Qur'an as "outcast/accursed" (rajim, al rajim)... e.g. Iblis = "Then, get out from here, for verily you are rajim" (15:34) and the Shaytan = "So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from Shaytan al rajim" (16:98)

... based even on the above one could conclude that Iblis and al Shaytan are one and the same...

but then there are the verses:

"When We said to the angels, "Prostrate yourselves to Adam", they prostrated themselves, but not Iblis: he refused.
Then We said: "O Adam! verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife: so let him not get you both out of the Garden, so that thou art landed in misery." (20:116-117)

among other things we learn from these two verses that it is Iblis who intends to get Adam and his wife "out of the Garden"... compare this with:

"O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden" (7:27)

Iblis and al Shaytan are one and the same