HA HA HA HA
Y dont u accept shia'sm then? That would result in unity.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Diwana_Desii: *
Nauzubillah are you trying to doubt the knowledge of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. Are you out of your mind, Lady whose purity Quran testifies in Ayat 33:33. How can you say nauzubillah she was unaware of the ruling of her father, if that was the case why would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. give such a hadith, and there is no where that ayat said risalat, that something you came up with or are assuming, just to over rule ayat of quran to just justify a hadith. Please give me a break... How can you insult such pious personalities of Mubahila,
Abu Bakr not only disobeyed quran, but made prophet Mohammad angry on his greed for the land... As far as the inheritance in concerned the land was given to Bibi by Prophet in his lifetime and was taken back by the khaleefa, she already had it b4.....
You want to read an hadith about some companions, for whom you are willing to change the contents on the ayat, just to justify their deeds, ,read what Prophet Mohammad has to say about some of his companions.
"Allah's Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don't know what innovations they made after you"
and here are the references
Sahih Bukhari, Book on Heart-Melting Traditions, hadith #6089 and #6090; Book on the Trials, hadith #6527; Sahih Muslim, Book on the Virtues, hadith #4250; Ibn Majah, Book on Religious Rituals, hadith #3048; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 1:384, 402, 406, 407, 425, 439, 453, 455;5:387, 393, 400
How could you twist the meaings of ayat and over rule an haidth just to defend another.....
Please you think, would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. give such a big hadith if Nauzubillah his daughter was greedy, you know who is Bibi Fatima,
Lut gaey jangle meh heh dolat-e-Shabbir
Fatima keh sheer keh heh yeh Taseer
Its her family who sacrificed their kids with three days of hunger and thirst, everything they had, when islam came in the hands of people like yazeed, that how good her upbringing was.
**
Please if you want to twist the meanings of ayats of quran, come up with something that makes sense.
Is risalat something you intherit rathern than been given by God
Tell me who did Prophet Mohammad inherit his Risalat from??
who did Hazrat Isssa Inherit from??
If Nazubillah Quran preaches that risalat are inherited to kids from the father, then of all the sons of Prophet Yaqub, why only one son became Prophet.....?
Please now you want to make fun of this God given Status just to defend a hadith, that offends Prophet and conflicts the teachings of quran, Are you using this to doubt the knowledge of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A.?
**
[/QUOTE]
if you can call abu bakar RA a greedy man, who gave EVERY thing he had in his home for the battle of tabuk, you must be out of our minds...and yes, bibi fatima was MISTAKEN when she asked for the land of fadak because it did not belong to her, it belonged to the ENTIRE muslim ummah. and if she already HAD the land why did the issue of INHERETENCE come from? inheretence is after death, so first you say she wanted inheretence, and now you say she alreay had the land...shais just love to make up stories to defend their cause, and then expect normal minded people to understand them. bibi fatima was a human, she CAN make mistakes, it is normal, and in this case she was mistaken, simple, we do not hold this mistake against her great status, but we do not make her an angel uncapable of mistakes...
Diwani
You really need to slow down a little and take heed of some of the Guppies advice.
The Qur'aanic ayats you mention regarding ahl-bayt have been discussed many a time on here.
Secondly, the ayat you mention regarding Solomon and inheritance is correctly interperated by ThandyMazaq. If you looked and scrutinised the Synopsis of Contents, you will note the following:
We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon: And they both said: "Praise be to Allah, Who has favoured us above many of his servants who believe!"
And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
The Surah is a Meccan Surah and takes it's name from the phrase wadi-an-naml (the valley of the ants) which occurs in ayat 18. It is one of the 3 Meccan Surahs, Ash-Shu'ara, An Naml and Al Qasas, which were revealed in this very order of succession and incoprporated in the same order. All 3 Surahs convey the message of Tawheed, Resurrection, Requital, the Truth of the Qur'aan, the Prophethood of Muhammad PBUH and the stories of annihilation of the former peoples who rejected Da'wah of their Messengers.
The ayat that you mention is actually selected from 15-44 which relate
the story of Prophet David and his son Prophet Solomon, who were both granted bounties of Allah in addition to Prophethood and kingdom. It also mentions the ants, hoope incident, Sheba and the Jinn incident confirming knowledge of the Book detailing the Power of the Ismal A'zam.
They expressed their gratitudes in ayat 15 thanking Allah for selecting them over other believing servants and in ayat 16, Prophet Solomon succeeded Prophet David in Prophethood, kingdom and Allahs Grace which is actually confirmed in Prophet Solomons speech:
'And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
This is the meaning of ayat 16.
Bibi Fatimah RA was not given Fadak by Allah's order as was the case with Prophet David and Prophet Solomon. If either Bibi Fatimah RA or Abu Bakr RT were wrong, only Allah knows best.
And no, we do not think any less of the ahl-bayt than the Companions. It's just that we differ on who is included in the ahl-bayt. The Companions had their degree of Allah SWT grace and the Ahl-bayt had theirs. The Qur'aan confirms both positions.
Apologies. I meant Diwana and not Diwani. Typo error.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Bibi Fatimah RA was not given Fadak by Allah's order as was the case with Prophet David and Prophet Solomon. If either Bibi Fatimah RA or Abu Bakr RT were wrong, only Allah knows best.
And no, we do not think any less of the ahl-bayt than the Companions. It's just that we differ on who is included in the ahl-bayt. The Companions had their degree of Allah SWT grace and the Ahl-bayt had theirs. The Qur'aan confirms both positions.
[/QUOTE]
Ali (a.s.), Fatima (a.s.) and Their Children are the Ahle bait and Ahle bait does not include wives..and i have posted that hadith from sahih muslim many times..hadith is to the point so please dont be so confused still
and if u did make a typo then go ahead and edit ur post..dont need to open another post to clearify ur mistake
dewana desi
these people believe that Bibi Fatima (a.s.) can make a mistake so there is no point arguing with them..InshaAllah qayamat walay din yeh apno kay saath hongay aur hum apno kay :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
dewana desi
these people believe that Bibi Fatima (a.s.) can make a mistake so there is no point arguing with them..InshaAllah qayamat walay din yeh apno kay saath hongay aur hum apno kay :)
[/QUOTE]
yeah, we will be with the likes of rasul of Allah, abu bakar and umar, uthman, and ali, while you will be with khomini, al sadr, khamini and the rest...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
if you can call abu bakar RA a greedy man, who gave EVERY thing he had in his home for the battle of tabuk, you must be out of our minds...and yes, bibi fatima was MISTAKEN when she asked for the land of fadak because it did not belong to her, it belonged to the ENTIRE muslim ummah. and if she already HAD the land why did the issue of INHERETENCE come from? inheretence is after death, so first you say she wanted inheretence, and now you say she alreay had the land...shais just love to make up stories to defend their cause, and then expect normal minded people to understand them. bibi fatima was a human, she CAN make mistakes, it is normal, and in this case she was mistaken, simple, we do not hold this mistake against her great status, but we do not make her an angel uncapable of mistakes...
[/QUOTE]
I don't have to say it Mr. His acts shows it... You are accusing a lady for a mistake who is such pious that she was the only person to represent women when ayat of Mubahila to curse the liars came on... This is the status of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. Mr. go and read ayat 33:33 of Quran Majeed and tell me how can she make a mistake. How can you.. .and if the ayat that i presented there was meant for risalat were meant for Nabuwat... You and Mr. Sholay why don't you go through the pains of answering my questions?
**
Is risalat something you intherit rathern than been given by God
Tell me who did Prophet Mohammad inherit his Risalat from??
who did Hazrat Isssa Inherit from??
If Nazubillah Quran preaches that risalat are inherited to kids from the father, then of all the sons of Prophet Yaqub, why only one son became Prophet.....?
Please now you want to make fun of this God given Status just to defend a hadith, that offends Prophet and conflicts the teachings of quran, Are you using this to doubt the knowledge of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A.?**
Talking about companions, If being a companion of Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. were all pious, then why did Allah send this ayat in the Quran
"When they meet those who believe, they say: We Believe;' butWe are really
when they are alone with their evil ones, they say:
with you, we (were) only jesting [2:14]."
Now you want to come up with lame excuse to twist the meaning of quran ?
or why did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. send the hadith:
"Allah's Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don't know what innovations they made after you"
and here are the references
Sahih Bukhari, Book on Heart-Melting Traditions, hadith #6089 and #6090; Book on the Trials, hadith #6527; Sahih Muslim, Book on the Virtues, hadith #4250; Ibn Majah, Book on Religious Rituals, hadith #3048; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 1:384, 402, 406, 407, 425, 439, 453, 455;5:387, 393, 400
Now are you going to accuse Prophet MOhammad of saying such things about some of his companions......
and As far as Abu Bakr is concerned to me the hadithsSahi Bukhari is the witness of him making Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. angry, based on the hadith mentioned by me and Pricard before
." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died."
"Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he
who makes her angry, makes me angry."
References are posted in the previous posts.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
yeah, we will be with the likes of rasul of Allah, abu bakar and umar, uthman, and ali, while you will be with khomini, al sadr, khamini and the rest...
[/QUOTE]
HMMM YOU WANNA BE THERE WITH THE LIKES OF Rasul Allah and not with Rasul Allah himself... you are so confident that the likes of Prophet are enough to help you pass through the Pull-e-Siraat that you don't even need Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H now...?.
Let me quote you a hadith from Sahih Bukhari again:
"Allah's Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don't know what innovations they made after you"
and here are the references
Sahih Bukhari, Book on Heart-Melting Traditions, hadith #6089 and #6090; Book on the Trials, hadith #6527; Sahih Muslim, Book on the Virtues, hadith #4250; Ibn Majah, Book on Religious Rituals, hadith #3048; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, 1:384, 402, 406, 407, 425, 439, 453, 455;5:387, 393, 400
Go and read my first post... whozz been supporting enenmies of Ahleybait, who respects the people who came and raged war against ahleybait on the greed of khilafat.... You respect the person who raged war against Maula Ali and call him Ameer ul Momineen and you still want to go with Hazrat Ali, when you are supporters of his enemies???
Donno about the first three... but INSHALLAH we'll be their with Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and our 12 Imam including Maula Ali and not with the offenders or Prophet Mohammad. 14 Masoomen are enough for us.
Sheraz
You may have posted the Hadeeth, but I posted the actual ayat from the Qur'aan which is the primary source and not the secondary, and broke it down for you time and time again, but you still don't understand.
Like I said before, each one to their own. You stick to yours and I'll stick to mine.
No need to respond, just let it go my son, just let it go!
Sholay
I'd like to see that ayat and please do break it down too..i will respond after that
comon, i only love and respect abu bakar and omar and uthman and ali just BECAUSE rasul Allah:saw: loved them, and because they had iman in their hearts, there is no other reason for my love of them. you cant take my words literally because you know very well what i meant,
and besides, the headith you quoted states “some” of my companions, not ALL but few…so yes SOME companions might have deserted islam, but certainly we cant use that hadith to claim ALL companions of rasul ALLAH :saw: left islam after his death…
secondly, i fear the day when i shall hate fatima RA, or claim that she is not one of the most pure women of the ummah, but the main aqeedah of ahlul sunnah wal jamah is that ALL men and women are capable of making mistakes, and rasul allah :saw: is INCAPABLE of making mistakes in matters of religion, but he can forget some times. however, every other sahabi can make mistakes in terms of ijtihad, but that does not make the sahabi any less of respected because allah knows that their hearts were pure…thats it, so bibi fatima made a little mistake because she had NOT heard rasul Allah :saw: when he mentioned that to abu bakar RA…no other reason…
Sheraz
Like I said. Let it go.
The bait can sometimes be tempting, but not this time son.
We have too many dushmans and gloaters at the moment.
Believe what you feel is right for you.
Peace.
Sholay
Hazrat Nooh’s :as: wife, even though she was His wife, was not part of his Ahle bait according to Quran..i am sure you knew that.. i will let it go uncle jee..anyways we believe Bibi Fatima to be Masoom and you believe that she could have made a mistake..so lets leave it at that
cool, so end of discussion....
And lets say if I believe on the made up hadith or an authentic if you call it… Lemme ask you a question Mr.
If you have two path’s in front of you and both of them sounds right to you…
One of the path gets you a lot of money but offends Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and following the other path you loose money but you don’t offend Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. so you can choose that and leave it to Prophet… which one would you take Mr???
I am suprised you still accuse Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. for making a mistake…we are talking about the lady who even Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. respected, she was so honest that when it came to curse the liar, she was the only lady to represent woman… thats how honest and truthful the lady is… And how easily you just accused the mother of the leaders of jawan-e-janat… a Bibi where quran testifies her purity in ayat 33:33.
A lady for who Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said:
"Allah’s Apostle said, “Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.”
Why would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. say something like that if nauzubillah she was not trust worthy… shez a part of Prophet Mohammad… a person who we all respects and you are accusing his daughter…?
May Rasul Allah deal with you for accusing her… thats all you want rite.. On the day of judgement you are with Abu Bakr, I pray for you that on the day of judgement you are with the gasibeen-e-Fidak and the offender of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. happy…and Inshallah I be with 14 masoomen (members who served for Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. until his last time.. and even performed his funeral services rather than giving importance to some khilafat issue than funeral services of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H., memeber who sacrficed their families to defend islam unlike ppl who respects ppl like mawiya who fought with ahleybait)… Ameen.
Let me quote the hadith Pricard quoted earlier:
"Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of the Holy prophet(saww).
Lets say if I believe you that nauzubillah Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. made a mistake, you think if she knows she is at fault she would still be angry until her death… Please have some respect for the lady Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. respected. A lady who is so pious and truthful.
Please stop insulting such honorable personality of Islam.
I asked you a few questions but you never replied, but you don’t feel a slight shame on accusing the mother of the leader of Juwanan-e-Janat.
Why don’t you just answer my question before doing any more mud slinging on the character of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A.
**
Is risalat something you intherit rathern than been given by God
Tell me who did Prophet Mohammad inherit his Risalat from??
who did Hazrat Isssa Inherit from??
If Nazubillah Quran preaches that risalat are inherited to kids from the father, then of all the sons of Prophet Yaqub, why only one son became Prophet…?
Please now you want to make fun of this God given Status just to defend a hadith, that offends Prophet and conflicts the teachings of quran, Are you using this to doubt the knowledge of Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A.?**
And I didnt say that all companions left islam after the death… but I think to introduce innovation one need’s to have power
Let me quote you the hadith from Sahih Bukhari again:
“Allah’s Messenger (pbuh&hf) said: I will be there at the Fountain of Kawthar before you, and I will have to contend for some people, but I will have to yield. I will be saying: My Lord, they are my companions, they are my companions, and it will be said: You don’t know what innovations they made after you”
Now let me quote you a hadith I found on the website of www.sunnah.org awhile back, where they were arguing that tarwaeeh should have 20 rakats because that’s how Umar ordered…
Let me quote you it has the reference too
Theevidence which proves that Umar (radiallahu anhu) ordered the practise of 20 rak’ahshas been recorded by Shaykh Ali al-Muttaqi al-Hindi[10] in the largest collection ofHadith available today: Kanz al-Ummal fi Sunan al-aqwal wal Af’al[11], as follows from Ubayy ibn Ka’b(radiallahu anhu):
“Umar (radiallahu anhu) ordered him (Ubayy) to leadthe people in prayer at night in Ramadan, because the people fast during theday and can not recite (the Qur’an) well, therefore it is better that youshould recite (the Qur’an) during the night. **I (Ubayy) asked: “O commanderof the believers, this thing was not done before.” He said: “I know,but it is a good practise”, and so (Ubayy) led (the Companion’s) for 20 rak’ahs.” **
Now isnt that a Bidah[Innovation] for you…
There you go another one
Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227:
'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abd ul-Qariy said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)’. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka’b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid’a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is…
And what right does these khaleefa’s have to introduce things in religon where quran testified during the time of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
and i guess the hadith on innovation speaks for itself.
Hazrat Bibi Fatima(a.s.) made a mistake?!
why is she God that she cant make a mistake?
nauzubillah
i dont have time to reply to all of your points
but first, abu bakar RA had no personal benefit from the fadak property, it was used to feed the hungry take care of the needy and prepare the governemnt’s armies against islam. so abu bakar did not get any personal beenfit for us to accuse him of greediness…secondly, the prophet :saw: himself prayed taraweeh salat in his last ramadhan, for 3 straight nights in JAMAH, and he then left them because he did not want them to be taken by his ummah to be obligatory, but after his death, no one was going to take the words of omar 
as rulings in religion. so he said that i can revive the sunnah of taraweeh…and to this day no one believes tarahweeh salat to be obligatory, EVERY one knows that it is sunnah that we can pray if we want…so that ends your theory about omar introducing new stuff to islam…he just followed one sunnah that he thought was good and no one took his word as ruling in islam…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
why is she God that she cant make a mistake?
nauzubillah
[/QUOTE]
Go and read Ayat 33:33 of quran.