And they will never learn .....

[divine-light]

@PyariCGudia

Divine-light, you must interpret ayahs according to the history and according to the audience. If you were to actually do that, the idea of women not leaving their homes would be preposterous, as women were very active in society and in the cause of furthering Islam in the time of the Prophet. They would go to the mosque, they even fought in wars with the Prophet. Don’t tell me we should be sitting at home.

Dear PCG..quran message is time independent…

just that it contradicts with the ULTRA FASHIONABLE JEANS with SHORT SHIRT ..driving her new bank leased Honda Civic…and going to her job..proving to the whole world that ..we can move the society with men..we are equal with men…we are independent..we are not dependents on our husbands or fathers..or men simply…we dont cae about them…etc etc…

Dear PCG ..such concepts …are very suitable in vulgure society of West..where a woman is flying in the society like butterflies having no resect …izzat and honour ..just a piece of show model..or pleasure giving organ of the society…with no marriage ..feminism zinda abad ..no children…no husbands ..as we cannot accept SLAVERY of our husbands etc etc…

If you want to follow this whole zionist based concept of bringing women in society to increase industrialzation and money ..at the expense of women’s honour …and dignity..your choice…

but plz..dont try to tell us that Quran was of that time..and not apply to present age…

women are allowed to enetr mosques…but do you know prophet(pbuh said ..best namaz of women is in the inner most room of her house…

they are not allowed to walk in between the street while coming to mosque…

they cannot apply perfume ..while coming to mosque …

there was totally seperate path for thier entry and exit in umar(ra) period…

after prophet(pbuh) used to say salam in end of namaz …he waited for some moments ..so that women at back ..can go back home..while men still used to sit there…

see the tactics of prophet(pbuh and islam for segregation of sexes …and compare it with MODERN WOMEN …of today ..in madness of prooving the world that we are not step behind with men..we can do everything which men can do etc etc…

Women’s always being made fool …sometimes in colurful slogans of equality..sometimes independency..sometimes..femisim etc etc..but still she is not willing to look at her foolishness…!!!

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: And they will never learn …

Once I shared my views on this issue;

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=249482

p.s. Just don’t want to repeat myself.

[Dimagh_HotaToNa]

Re: And they will never learn …

That’s a typical man talking!

You can make a list of many unnecessary restrictions on a woman and still have guts to tell her that she is overlooking HER foolishness, what about yourself??

[twin_born]

Re: And they will never learn .....

thts a nice debate......I agree with tht Time has changed ..WE also need to change...We also have to think wht suitable for us rather thn debating on western society segregation of sexes...Pak is a developing country ....so is our thinking ,culture and values....we r still confused wht we r doign and wht we supposed to do ....we want to enjoy in this WORLD as well WORLD AFTER tht ....we want to do everything wht our DIL SAYS and also we want to go HEAVEN ....

[Light_Bearer]

Re: And they will never learn .....

but plz..dont try to tell us that Quran was of that time..and not apply to present age.....

DO YOU APPROVE buying and selling slaves and their fair treatment in this time and era just like it was allowed at that time?

[STONECOLD]

Re: And they will never learn .....

^ i do!!!!

obviously i kid!

It was not so long ago that in western cultures were women at home...The trend for women working only kind of really took of in the 60's!! until then most women were at home!

But for an islamic purist this concept is probably a bit to hard to swallow!

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn …

@Dimag_HotatoNa

That’s a typical man talking!

You can make a list of many unnecessary restrictions on a woman and still have guts to tell her that she is overlooking HER foolishness, what about yourself??

i have not put this restrictions..islam has put this..you can change it by e mailing Allah Almighty …to change Quran and sunnah…!!!

and all these restrictions for betterment of the society…not for the time being ..but in the long run…look at the west..how thier society have been totally wrecked ..due to this so called Liberty..Independency ..and equality of women…

My brother in law..some years ago..happened to go Paris for training from telecom company…with a group of 12 or 10 people ..for 2 week…he used to tell me ..what misery ..rather curse he saw on thier faces when they retun home…

some people used to sit in parks in evening and used to watch playing chidren…they have no family..no loving wife..no family institution…at evening..every girl has a boy walking with him…both spend that night..and next day again go on thier work…thier faces are totally blanked from inner light..happiness ..and contentent…

and still few people want to follow this hollow culture of west ..in name of Liberty of women…Independency…and other such things…

Where women till age 40 are pleasure seekers instruments ..and after that..when they loose thier family…husband..they cross age of production…no child..no husband..no family..and her life is now in some damp room of an Old House…

wah wah..i salute such culture and freedom..and Feminism of women…

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn …

@Submission_To_Peace

Once I shared my views on this issue;

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=249482

p.s. Just don’t want to repeat myself.

Thanks STP for the nice thread… and nice reminder..i totally forgot that i once posted in this thread..actually..if my memory is good..this thread was initially started in General section..then moved to Social forum …

@light bewarer

DO YOU APPROVE buying and selling slaves and their fair treatment in this time and era just like it was allowed at that time?

sir…actually..it wasso common that..Prophet(pbuh) tried to reduce it gradually..by saying that major sins amnesty is freeing slaves…so that this habit gradually stops..just as Mutta was allowed initially to stop adultery from this bad society…

[mizzrani]

Re: And they will never learn .....

okay so i agree with ur first post

but y do u selfish men make it sound as if islam opresses women , islam in fact gives the women a higher status than men , it gives her more izzat , more respect and a women is advantaged in every way than a man as far as i know . may allah forgive if i am making any mistake here.

and there is no point of talkin abt islam to those who customise islam to fulfil their desires.

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn .....

okay so i agree with ur first post

but y do u selfish men make it sound as if islam opresses women , islam in fact gives the women a higher status than men , it gives her more izzat , more respect and a women is advantaged in every way than a man as far as i know . may allah forgive if i am making any mistake here.

and there is no point of talkin abt islam to those who customise islam to fulfil their desires.

Where i have said that islam NOT give higher honour and izzat to women...:)

If abstaing from** Social butterfly** is a OPPRESION in your eyes..then yes..islam is a deen of Opression...:)

[mizzrani]

Re: And they will never learn .....

Where i have said that islam NOT give higher honour and izzat to women...:)

If abstaing from** Social butterfly** is a OPPRESION in your eyes..then yes..islam is a deen of Opression...:)

what's a social butterfly and i was taling in favour of u .. anyways

[Mamaof3]

Re: And they will never learn .....

D-L, You have some valid points but completely lose credibility with your statements like:

"in the west...with no marriage ..feminism zinda abad ..no children...no husbands "
"...look at the west..how thier society have been totally wrecked .."
"...they have no family..no loving wife..no family institution...."

"Where women till age 40 are pleasure seekers instruments ..and after that..when they loose thier family...husband..they cross age of production...no child..no husband..no family..and her life is now in some damp room of an Old House"

None of your above statements apply to anywhere near the majority of western women or families. Perhaps there is an **extremely **small percentage of those you describe - so you base your opinions of an entire society on an extremely small minority? How would you like it if Pakistanis were judged on an extremely small percentage of the population, ie., Al-quaeda types? And your statement about the society being "wrecked", please clarify that. Since the overwhelming majority of families here earn a good clean living and educate all their children, westerners have been able to advance - compare to Pakistan which has one of the planets worst rates of illiteracy and per-capita income. Dont get me wrong, I am not bashing Pak here, I happen to love some of the ways over there, just as I love some of the ways over here in the west. Every society has good and bad. But stick to reality if you want to be taken seriously.

[signup]

Re: And they will never learn .....

Reality is the "West" has a looser sense of sexual discipline and looser family bonds. They treat each others as individuals, and when you are a person, not a group, you obviously have looser bonds between each other.
On the other hand, West has civic discipline and literacy as well as a culture of philosophic and educational pursuits. They also have a culture of humanism where they know to show justice and discipline to all members of society. You dont have to love everybody, but you do have to show humane and just discipline.

The East has stricter and more rigid sexual and social mores. However they live in filth and have no sense of civic discipline except the educated. They dont have a sense of mercy neither, outside of their "group" or tribe. The Indians and Chinese tend to be better in this regard because they are more educated; but the Pakistanis are ruthless towards one another (in terms of groups or tribes) unless they know they can seep some benefit from another by acting nice and welcoming.

[signup]

Re: And they will never learn .....

Feminism, in its original form, is actually a great concept. However, in its present state it is a decaying or decadent concept. So too with the concept of "freedom".

[Light_Bearer]

Re: And they will never learn .....

sir...actually..it wasso common that..Prophet(pbuh) tried to reduce it gradually..by saying that major sins amnesty is freeing slaves.....so that this habit gradually stops..just as Mutta was allowed initially to stop adultery from this bad society....

I understand that the reward is very high to free a slave but still I am not commiting any sin if don't want to release a slave as long as I am being fair to him/her. Do you agree?

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn .....

what's a social butterfly and i was taling in favour of u .. anyways

Oh sorry...:)

@Mamaof3

None of your above statements apply to anywhere near the majority of western women or families. Perhaps there is an **extremely **small percentage of those you describe - so you base your opinions of an entire society on an extremely small minority? How would you like it if Pakistanis were judged on an extremely small percentage of the population, ie., Al-quaeda types? And your statement about the society being "wrecked", please clarify that. Since the overwhelming majority of families here earn a good clean living and educate all their children, westerners have been able to advance - compare to Pakistan which has one of the planets worst rates of illiteracy and per-capita income. Dont get me wrong, I am not bashing Pak here, I happen to love some of the ways over there, just as I love some of the ways over here in the west. Every society has good and bad. But stick to reality if you want to be taken seriously.

Oh girl..leave it..its your old times habbit that being an originally American ..you always defend your country.....

when i say ..Americans are killing people in iraq and afghanistan....and abusing women in Abu Ghareeb Jail ...you give me justifications....

when i talk about the flaws of western society of not entertaing MIL and FIL ..you also give me justifications...

when i talk about women liberty loss by west ..even then ..you start giving me illeteracy rates of Pakistan..what a joke !!!!!

We all know that in West ..specially US ..after 18 ...son or daughter is told that good bye..earn your own and eat ....no marriages ...till "understanding" is not developed ..usually developed after 4 or 5 years when girl has 2 small beautiful babies !!!!!

most of the women earn thier own..husbands compelled her to do that..she is compelled to share equally in house expenses..etc etc....

we all know that ...is this something very secret !!!!

and literacy rates ..wtf.....

should i tell you how much we spend on edcation out of our GDP ..and on Health.....

and how much we pay to your beloved country ..World Bank..IMF and other blood sucking donors ..in name of Interest...which is West hallmark...rather zionist which are ruling your country ..Bush is just a puppet sitting in White House....

If i had means ..i would have blown all US banks..and other interest takers banks ..of West ..due to which every third world country ..has ruined in basic heath and education facilities.....

These banks ..suck the blood of poor people in name of interset ..and then start weeping over bad conditions in 3rd world countries...look into your shirt before pointing fingers on Pakistan !!!!!!

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn .....

I understand that the reward is very high to free a slave but still I am not commiting any sin if don't want to release a slave as long as I am being fair to him/her. Do you agree?

I am not sure about that....but i think..there will be no sin...not sure again...

[signup]

Re: And they will never learn .....

divine light, your a very stupid and unsophisticated person.

And we all know in East, parents sell their daughters in marriage to big zamindar; who locks her in his mahal and occasionally ****s her. Then throws acid on her face.

[signup]

Re: And they will never learn .....

We all know that in West ..specially US ..after 18 ...son or daughter is told that good bye..earn your own and eat ....no marriages ...till "understanding" is not developed ..usually developed after 4 or 5 years when girl has 2 small beautiful babies !!!!!

most of the women earn thier own..husbands compelled her to do that..she is compelled to share equally in house expenses..etc etc....

we all know that ...is this something very secret !!!!

and literacy rates ..wtf.....

should i tell you how much we spend on edcation out of our GDP ..and on Health.....

and how much we pay to your beloved country ..World Bank..IMF and other blood sucking donors ..in name of Interest...which is West hallmark...rather zionist which are ruling your country ..Bush is just a puppet sitting in White House....

If i had means ..i would have blown all US banks..and other interest takers banks ..of West ..due to which every third world country ..has ruined in basic heath and education facilities.....

These banks ..suck the blood of poor people in name of interset ..and then start weeping over bad conditions in 3rd world countries...look into your shirt before pointing fingers on Pakistan !!!!!!

Most people in West move out after 18 because they have a culture of independence, not because their parents are evil. Which is better than the prevalent culture of Pakistan where most people sell their daughters (Jahaiz) or try to bleach their daughters skin so she gets married.

No woman is "compelled" to do anything, unless she wants a specific quality of life. If she wants more than her husband can afford, than she is compelled to work. Sorry, we have a work culture in America, we dont have 20% of the rich seeping the blood of 80% of the poor like you do in your country.

Literacy rates in Pakistan are atrocious because Pakistanis dont give a damn about learning like Indians or americans do. What Pakistanis do care about is war; and so they are one of the worlds largest arms importers. Education is about 3% of Pakistani Federal Budget.

That whole Zionist horsehit, i dont know if it even deserves an intelligent reply. Certainly the one who asks this question isnt an intelligent person. However, the system of Banks has been around for hundreds of years, not only in West, but also Mughal Empire and Abbasid Sultanate. So dont get on your high horse just yet. This is how Banks operate, if you dont like it, dont take the ****ing loan genius.

If i had means, id run you over with my car.

No, look at your own shirt. Does Pakistan not have banks? Why is Pakistan such a backward nation? After all South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, and India all started either on par or worse than Pakistan. So why is it so decrepit and decayed?

When your rulers (Zamindars) learn how to manage a nation for the peoples' self interest, and not their own, then please come back. Until then, chew paan.

[divine-light]

Re: And they will never learn …

@signup

Most people in West move out after 18 because they have a culture of independence, not because their parents are evil. Which is better than the prevalent culture of Pakistan where most people sell their daughters (Jahaiz) or try to bleach their daughters skin so she gets married.

you are indian and blamming pakistan for jahaiz …should i tell you what happens in your country where ugly girls are married to good looking man just beacsu the girl’s father is willing to give her more **“DAAN” **means jahaiz..

In rajhistan …people sit outside thier jhonpari..and truk drivers pay them some money and go inside for an hour or two…and after wads infected with HIV !!!

go and learn something about HIV oriented indian society where every on girl out of 2 is sexually harrased…

No woman is “compelled” to do anything, unless she wants a specific quality of life. If she wants more than her husband can afford, than she is compelled to work. Sorry, we have a work culture in America, we dont have 20% of the rich seeping the blood of 80% of the poor like you do in your country.

at the expense of breaking home institution ..sorry we dont want that…

Literacy rates in Pakistan are atrocious because Pakistanis dont give a damn about learning like Indians or americans do. What Pakistanis do care about is war; and so they are one of the worlds largest arms importers. Education is about 3% of Pakistani Federal Budget.

because of our “neaighbours” blessings" ..which think that she is super power ..hahah..super power to bhuatn ..not nuclear Pakistan…

That whole Zionist horsehit, i dont know if it even deserves an intelligent reply. Certainly the one who asks this question isnt an intelligent person. However, the system of Banks has been around for hundreds of years, not only in West, but also Mughal Empire and Abbasid Sultanate. So dont get on your high horse just yet. This is how Banks operate, if you dont like it, dont take the ****ing loan genius.

Oh in abbasaid period …there were Haroon rasheed corporate limited giving leasing cars and house building funds …

If i had means, id run you over with my car.

thanks… …why you indians muslims not break chains of slavery …why you are under hidus for 60 years …be brave …

No, look at your own shirt. Does Pakistan not have banks? Why is Pakistan such a backward nation? After all South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, and India all started either on par or worse than Pakistan. So why is it so decrepit and decayed?

When your rulers (Zamindars) learn how to manage a nation for the peoples’ self interest, and not their own, then please come back. Until then, chew paan.

india is shinning ..wth…mumbai metro railway lines also shine in early morning !!!

should i tell you the real** “auqat”** of india …

just check it out ..with chill coke..and ham burger …buddy…

http://www.chowk.com/unplugged/t/43052