..and I thought my country has entered 21st Century..

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1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2176885.stm

Police in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh say a 65-year-old woman has burned to death on her husband’s funeral pyre committing the outlawed practice of Sati.

The incident took place on Tuesday at a village in Panna district in accordance with the outlawed custom, which requires a woman to immolate herself after her husband’s death.

Two policemen were blocked from stopping the ceremony by some 4,000 villagers who had gathered to witness the event.

“Our men tried to stop them but could not because they were pelted with stones,” a policeman in Panna district told the French news agency AFP.

Extra police have been deployed in the area to prevent any glorification of the incident although local villagers insist they want to worship the woman as their new Goddess or Sati Mata.

Revered custom

Reports said the woman, Kuttu Bai, decided to kill herself on her husband Mallu Nai’s pyre after he died from a prolonged illness.

Sati is still revered by many

Local journalists say her two grown-up sons did not try to stop their mother.

The last reported incident of Sati took place in Rajasthan several years ago with the death of 18-year-old Roop Kanwar.

The case sparked national and international outrage.

Police charged Roop Kanwar’s father-in-law and brother-in-law with forcing her to sit on the pyre with her husband’s body, but the two men were acquitted by an Indian court in October 1996.

But the widespread media attention surrounding the case led India to enact legislation calling for the death penalty for anyone abetting Sati.

Outlawed

Sati is believed to have originated some 700 years ago among the ruling class or Rajputs in India .

The Rajput women burnt themselves after their men were defeated in battles to avoid being taken by the victors. But it came to be seen as a measure of wifely devotion in later years.

The custom was outlawed by India’s British rulers in 1829 following demands by Indian reformers.

But despite the long standing ban any mention of Sati provokes strong respect among many villagers.

Four years ago police in Uttar Pradesh had to seal off a village in Uttar Pradseh after a woman committed suicide by jumping into her husband’s pyre.

For several days thousands of people thronged the village to pay their respects to the dead woman but the police said it was just an impulsive act of suicide rather than a contemplated act of Sati.

AK

2

Have you seen the Indian movie 'Maya'?

Covers a much worse topic, about Hindu priests raping 12 yr old girls as part of an officially sanctioned and community supported
(including girls parents) religious act.

Of course Indian govt is trying to ban it.

It is estimated to happen to 15,000 girls a year.

3

R.D.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

What you r referring to is calle DEVDASINI system in which young girls are offered to priest at 10 12 yrs of age .
The consequence of this system is the 40 million sex worker system in India for long time .Of course now girls are abducted from Bangladesh Nepal & through out India (as in many hindi movie chandini ,salam bombay) ,to keep full filling the unending demand of sex workers in big cities of india

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/devil.gif

Sati is very old custom but fortunately much less practiced now limited to rural Rajasthan Rajputana region ,M.P. etc.

But life of widow is still hard & trecherous.Its the hindu philosophy which places man very close to Demigod so anyone with one i.e. suhagan is considered Laxmi or good luck & charm.

Without Pati as widow it is bad luck & poor widow no matter what is made to suffer as if its her fault .You can read many stories of widows in Benares where hee are commune run by priest again oppertunity to exploit widows just like they do DEVDASINI…

Unfortunately HIndians stopped Mehta from making the last of her trilogy WATER based on benares widows after EARTH (bapsi Sidhwa..pak writer) Fire (about brahmachari husband inattentive to wives need) .

4

Thanks for the info

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5

Yes, I have heard of the devdasini from the BBC WOrld radio. They were discussing sex-workers in india, and how many of them are coming from battered theocratic pasts.

** Mu Hu Hahahahahaha!**:hoonh:
"Quote the Mu,“NeverMu!”
Yeh Duniya Doh Rangi Ajab Iski Baatein
Agar Pyar Maango toh Hasrat Millegi
Chaman Zindagi ke Hazaaron Killeinge
Magar Eik Dil ki Kali Nah Kiley Gi

6

Well, since its in accordance with Hindu religion, I wouldnt comment. Asif, how do you propose we stop someone, whose religion says satti is a must?

7

Quote: Spock

Well, since its in accordance with Hindu religion, I wouldnt comment. Asif, how do you propose we stop someone, whose religion says satti is a must?

Spock,

Sati is not a must in Hindu religion. It is a practice which was followed in the earlier generations. This practice has been routed off almost completely.

It is only education which can make people to get out of the evils of the medeival ages. Many other evil practices like wearing of white saree etc. are done away with in parts where education and development has reached.

However there are two faces to the issue.

One is of the women being forced on to the pyre, which amounts to homicide/murder. The culprits should be dealt according with the law.

Second, is of suicide:- This is the most intriguing part. How can you prevent anyone from committing suicide. I mean, I have come across news paper reports where a husband / wife end their life unable to bear the separation from their loved ones. There are also cases where parents commit suicide when their children are dead.

8

[quote]
Originally posted by Victory:
**Quote: Spock

Well, since its in accordance with Hindu religion, I wouldnt comment. Asif, how do you propose we stop someone, whose religion says satti is a must?

Spock,

Sati is not a must in Hindu religion. It is a practice which was followed in the earlier generations. This practice has been routed off almost completely.

It is only education which can make people to get out of the evils of the medeival ages. Many other evil practices like wearing of white saree etc. are done away with in parts where education and development has reached.

However there are two faces to the issue.

One is of the women being forced on to the pyre, which amounts to homicide/murder. The culprits should be dealt according with the law.

Second, is of suicide:- This is the most intriguing part. How can you prevent anyone from committing suicide. I mean, I have come across news paper reports where a husband / wife end their life unable to bear the separation from their loved ones. There are also cases where parents commit suicide when their children are dead.

**
[/quote]

Victory

I think Pakistanis are not criticising the religion or the inevitability of personal choice to die .If it is Hinduism ,its hindus business to practice or not not others.

But in summing up the practice of devdasinin Sati Dowry ,Even Hindu justified Polygamy (there are more hindu polygamist in india than muslims) reflects the Misoginy so artfully not discussed by hindutva in there ethos.

Granted all religion is inequal for women .In fact in Judeaism beuing woman is cursed "may you be born as woman "

9

victory, it is part of the religion, you should realize that Hinduism is not a fixed religion like Islam. I mean most of the things introduced skew down the time line and are pretty varying. Just because now you realize that the world will mock you on this religious practice, does not necessary mean you dismiss is as part of your religion. Doing so would put you at par with your religion.

10

It was her own life to take, why should we judge her? She has the right to follow whatever custom he wants, no matter how strange it is to us.

11

[quote]
Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
It was her own life to take, why should we judge her? She has the right to follow whatever custom he wants, no matter how strange it is to us.
[/quote]

I kinda agree with you adnan bhai...

12

sppock it may originated due to escape rape
by invaders i may be wrong.
but these practise is not prevalent in east or sooth

Sati is believed to have originated some 700 years ago among the ruling class or Rajputs in India.

The Rajput women burnt themselves after their men were defeated in battles to avoid being taken by the victors. But it came to be seen as a measure of wifely devotion in later years.

The custom was outlawed by India’s British rulers in 1829 following demands by Indian reformers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2176885.stm

13

there is also another observations of women
in middle ages
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/ancient/women.htm

14

Misstreatment of womenin any society comes in various forms .

It is common ridicule of the west to go by visible symbol of hijab or chador that west flaunts that there woman in vulgar clothes are liberated but in the eyesof many islamic people they are EXPLOITED like animals by objectification & tools of pleasure for the male species.

Similarly just b/c women in India are exposed working in fields ,& not inpurdah does not mean they are not exploited or objectified.

Sati is just a rare expresion of the master & slave relationship typical misoginy.Even decorated & laden with gold & silver jewelery is no proof of absence of exploitations & maltreatment.Right to property right to divorce ,protection of food shelter & economic security are providers responsibility & in Islam has beens MANS DUTY & RESPONSIBILITY as a contract of marriage signifies partnershipbetween bride & groom for enteprise of FAMILY & children to continue life cycle

15

<>

That idiocy is reserved for the 7th century. If you haven't noticed it's 2002. So women have no rights under your interpretation as they are generally not the providers in islamic countries.

16

In the Light of the Quran and Sunnah

Women’s rights in Islam and Hinduism

Islam Hinduism
The Muslim Woman:

1.The Muslim woman has equal rights as the Muslim man has.

  1. She enjoys property and inheritance rights. (Which other religion grants women these rights?). She can also conduct her own separate business.

  2. She can marry any Muslim of her choice. If her parents choose a partner for her, her consent must be taken.

  3. The dowry in Islam is a gift from a husband to his wife.

  4. A Muslim widow is encouraged to remarry, and her remarriage is the responsibility of the Muslim society.

6.Mixed marriage is encouraged and is a means to prevent racism creeping in society.

  1. A Muslim mother is given the highest form of respect.

The Hindu Woman:

  1. The Hindu Woman has no right to divorce her husband.

  2. She has no property or inheritance rights.

  3. Choice of partner is limited because she can only marry within her own caste; moreover her horoscope must match that of the intending bridegroom/family.

  4. The family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the bridegroom/family.

  5. If her husband dies she should commit Sati (being cremated with her dead husband). Since today’s law forbids Sati, society mainly punishes her in other “holy” ways (see below).

  6. She cannot remarry.

  7. The widow is considered to be a curse and must not be seen in public. She cannot wear jewelry or colorful clothes. (She should not even take part in her children’s marriage!)

  8. Child and infant marriage is encouraged.

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Wohi Hota Hai Jo Munzoore Khuda Hota Hai …

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[This message has been edited by Gymnasophyst (edited August 09, 2002).]

17

Whatever the scriptures say, the lot of women is not enviable.

18

both extremes exist in india . more women were educated in india and there are many
work in goverment and private industry compared other islamic countries.

19

Well, I dont know how the religion of Hinduism is made up of... However, Satti was a religious practice, and now you guys are claiming its not, cuz its bringing a bad name to your religion, and you wanna get rid of it... Rvikz here has brilliantly suggested that it was done to protect women from invaders (shifting the blame of satti to us Muslim invaders) instead of realizing it was a stupid practice in Hinduism.

[This message has been edited by Spock (edited August 09, 2002).]

20

[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
**Well, I dont know how the religion of Hinduism is made up of... However, Satti was a religious practice, and now you guys are claiming its not, cuz its bringing a bad name to your religion, and you wanna get rid of it... Rvikz here has brilliantly suggested that it was done to protect women from invaders (shifting the blame of satti to us Muslim invaders) instead of realizing it was a stupid practice in Hinduism.

[This message has been edited by Spock (edited August 09, 2002).]**
[/quote]

In one version of the Ramayana, Ram return to his kingdom with Sita, but is refused by the people because they think she had been raped while in captivity, and thus no longer worthy of being Rams wife. Sita decides to throw herself into the fire upon the judgement of the gods... She throws herself in but does not burn, the fire god pulls her out and testify's that she is still pure.
Now this story can be interpreted in many ways. How do we know its this and other examples of such things that are responsible for the creation of "Sati?"