And Assets of Imran Khan are...

[hanibal]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

If that's what we are trying to discuss the OP and title thread do not show that. They give an impression of some wrong doing on the part of IK. I think you have enough exposure to how things function in Pakistan. If you buy a piece of land in Pakistan.. there is no way you can buy this land without showing your source of financing.. as far as hiba is concerned he is not obliged to declare it publicly. It's enough he satisfies the tax authorities. Wrong doing would have been if there was a concealment of any sort.. He has declared the purchase to the fullest extent.. he has declared the hiba.. there is no concealment involved.. why make a fuss about it..!!!

Please read your OP comments again.. they were not about wrong tax exemptions.. it was about wrong asset declaration by IK which is absolutely not true by listening to all the so called evidences produced by the TV report.. the comments/opinion expressed by the anchor in the TV report is immatured/uncalled for/sensationalization/over judgmental..

Please read your OP comments again..

My OP comments stand true, because if matter of declaring assets is to be done like the preacher of the same, then there is no use in declaring them... as i have already said in one of the post, that the whole methodology need to be changed for this, otherwise what is the purpose of the declaration of the assets if they are going to be under valued. That is why i said, should we declare it as IK have or should we declare in its true spirit.

You are right when you say that we have option from the law to avail the loop holes or facilities, but should that be applied by someone who is already saying that the declaration of assets should be the fundamental requirement, whereas the law already requires it and it is in practice...

Moreover, the example of Shokat Tareen is there, i have been told and i guess ( i am not sure on this) he have not only declared his assets and income return in true spirit but have paid tax on his income from agriculture... now if somebody like Mr. Tareens tells me to declare my assets or ask other politicians to declare their assets and income that make sense.. but if IK after declaring it using the loop holes and facilities (stating 500+ Kanals agriculture land worth Rs 50,000 only) then i don't think that he stand his own words...

Because then, Zadari can say my assets are worth 1 million only, as the agriculture land i inherited or the cinema i got from my father was of that value at that time... or surrey palace was a gift or Palace in france was a donation (aka kick back, everyone have right to call any income donation)...

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

You are right ,I have read your post only about right to get low taxes. This right apply to normal persons ,not for so called honest. And naturally I have to tell more . I knew it since long when I saw a land cruiser belonging to land mafia related to Money King of Pakistan with a local PTI leader . There could be no prove but fact tells itself . I am surprised how people are made fool. This is an attempt of estab after looking at Tunis and Egypt. Our fool forgot all and became ready to be fooled again on the name of change.

It's perfectly honest if there is no misdeclaration/concealment/illegality. It will be better for you to keep quite on the matters for which you have no understanding.. not to make an idiot out of yourself.. just a piece of friendly advise as I really have some respect and liking for you. I have no doubt on your sincerity.. but the level of your understanding/exposure is not up to the level to discuss some technical issues..

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

My OP comments stand true, because if matter of declaring assets is to be done like the preacher of the same, then there is no use in declaring them... as i have already said in one of the post, that the whole methodology need to be changed for this, otherwise what is the purpose of the declaration of the assets if they are going to be under valued. That is why i said, should we declare it as IK have or should we declare in its true spirit.

You are right when you say that we have option from the law to avail the loop holes or facilities, but should that be applied by someone who is already saying that the declaration of assets should be the fundamental requirement, whereas the law already requires it and it is in practice...

Moreover, the example of Shokat Tareen is there, i have been told and i guess ( i am not sure on this) he have not only declared his assets and income return in true spirit but have paid tax on his income from agriculture... now if somebody like Mr. Tareens tells me to declare my assets or ask other politicians to declare their assets and income that make sense.. but if IK after declaring it using the loop holes and facilities (stating 500+ Kanals agriculture land worth Rs 50,000 only) then i don't think that he stand his own words...

Because then, Zadari can say my assets are worth 1 million only, as the agriculture land i inherited or the cinema i got from my father was of that value at that time... or surrey palace was a gift or Palace in france was a donation (aka kick back, everyone have right to call any income donation)...

I really doubt the report without seeing the actual wealth statement that 530 kanals of land was declared at a valuation of 50,000 rupees. I deal with tax authorities.. and I know a little bit about this particular land which was bought in the name of his wife initially at an amount which I have some idea. I don't think the valuation would be accepted by the tax authorities below the purchase price even after the hiba. This is practically impossible and I think the TV report is misguiding. It must be declared at a purchase price of Rs 50.000 per kanal.. and that was the actual purchase price when IK bought that land.. I know for sure.. Any way if there is no mis declaration.. and his income statement has been accepted by tax authorities it is perfectly legal.

There is a fundamental difference between Mr. Tareen and IK's returns. Tareen has filed is wealth statement according to the requirements by an elected parliamentarian.. while we are looking at IK's wealth returns submitted to tax authorities as he has not recently run for any office by contesting an election. We have to compare the tax returns of IK once he submits them to run for a public office.

Having said that I am not undermining Mr. Tareen's clean reputation by declaring his assets in black and white.

[hanibal]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

I really doubt the report without seeing the actual wealth statement that 530 kanals of land was declared at a valuation of 50,000 rupees. Any way if there is no mis declaration.. and his income statement has been accepted by tax authorities it is perfectly legal.

There is a fundamental difference between Mr. Tareen and IK's returns. Tareen has filed is wealth statement according to the requirements by an elected parliamentarian.. while we are looking at IK's wealth returns submitted to tax authorities as he has not recently run for any office by contesting an election. We have to compare the tax returns of IK once he submits them to run for a public office.

Having said that I am not undermining Mr. Tareen's clean reputation by declaring his assets in black and white.

In his interview with Naseem Zehra, IK admitted the land valuation saying it is inherited land... i think the interview telecasted on 4 or 5 November...

My argument is not about legal or illegal, my argument is about the true spirit and i would say again, the way IK have declared his assets almost all the 1000 parliamentarian have declared their assets... so what is the fuss??

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

In his interview with Naseem Zehra, IK admitted the land valuation saying it is inherited land... i think the interview telecasted on 4 or 5 November...

My argument is not about legal or illegal, my argument is about the true spirit and i would say again, the way IK have declared his assets almost all the 1000 parliamentarian have declared their assets... so what is the fuss??

Then this must be some other land which his ancestors bought for that amount at that time. There is no requirement to enhance the valuation from the purchase price if the land is not sold..

[hanibal]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

I really doubt the report without seeing the actual wealth statement that 530 kanals of land was declared at a valuation of 50,000 rupees*. I deal with tax authorities.. and I know a little bit about this particular land which was bought in the name of his wife initially at an amount which I have some idea. I don't think the valuation would be accepted by the tax authorities below the purchase price even after the hiba. This is practically impossible and I think the TV report is misguiding. It must be declared at a purchase price of Rs 50.000 per kanal.. and that was the actual purchase price when IK bought that land.. I know for sure.. Any way if there is no mis declaration.. and his income statement has been accepted by tax authorities it is perfectly legal.*

There is a fundamental difference between Mr. Tareen and IK's returns. Tareen has filed is wealth statement according to the requirements by an elected parliamentarian.. while we are looking at IK's wealth returns submitted to tax authorities as he has not recently run for any office by contesting an election. We have to compare the tax returns of IK once he submits them to run for a public office.

Having said that I am not undermining Mr. Tareen's clean reputation by declaring his assets in black and white.

No it is not the land which is gifted to him by his wife in ISB... it is the agriculture land in MiaN Chanoo... which about 500 kanals or something... the other land where i guess he have built his mansion is not under discussion by me and as a matter of fact i do not want to discuss this Mian Chanoo land like i am saying again and again, if this is how asset has to be declared then i have yet to see an parliamentarian who have not declared his assets and tax returns... then why all the fuss....

[kakaballi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are…

@hanibal

In his interview with Naseem Zehra, IK admitted the land valuation saying it is inherited land… i think the interview telecasted on 4 or 5 November…

My argument is not about legal or illegal, my argument is about the true spirit and i would say again, the way IK have declared his assets almost all the 1000 parliamentarian have declared their assets… so what is the fuss??

He also said in the same programme that if anyone wants to audit his assets, he/she is most welcome and he can provide all details of all assets with banking trails.

Now, repeat with me: “It is NOT ALLOWED by PAKISTANI TAX LAW to declare your assets AT MARKET VALUE in the wealth statement”.

Showing your assets at lower cost (or zero cost) in wealth statement would actually hit you bad if capital gains tax is introduced and you sell your assets because the difference between sale price and cost (capital gain) would be much greater, unless u NEVER declare those assets (which our leaders do) and sell them with another name.

[muqawwee123]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

And the assets of Imran Khan are... Pakistani youth

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are…

@kakaballi

He also said in the same programme that if anyone wants to audit his assets, he/she is most welcome and he can provide all details of all assets with banking trails.

Now, repeat with me: “It is NOT ALLOWED by PAKISTANI TAX LAW to declare your assets AT MARKET VALUE in the wealth statement”.

Showing your assets at lower cost (or zero cost) in wealth statement would actually hit you bad if capital gains tax is introduced and you sell your assets because the difference between sale price and cost (capital gain) would be much greater, unless u NEVER declare those assets (which our leaders do) and sell them with another name.

Very valid point.. If in future capital gain tax is introduced.. everyone will have to pay huge amounts on the gains from the actual purchase price. It’s only a matter of time when this tax is introduced..

I received a gift from my father some shares in a company he formed some 40 years ago. I declare the valuation of these shares at original purchase price paid by my father as required by the law. In future when capital gain tax is introduced and if I decide to sell these shares, I’ll face a huge capital gain tax. I would like to declare these shares at present value to avoid this huge tax liability.. but I am not allowed to do so under present tax regime/laws..

[hanibal]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are…

@kakaballi

He also said in the same programme that if anyone wants to audit his assets, he/she is most welcome and he can provide all details of all assets with banking trails.

Now, repeat with me: “It is NOT ALLOWED by PAKISTANI TAX LAW to declare your assets AT MARKET VALUE in the wealth statement”.

Showing your assets at lower cost (or zero cost) in wealth statement would actually hit you bad if capital gains tax is introduced and you sell your assets because the difference between sale price and cost (capital gain) would be much greater, unless u NEVER declare those assets (which our leaders do) and sell them with another name.

Oh bhai,

then why always we comment on the wealth and assets of our POOR POLITICIANS.. why we always then blame every politician of showing assets at lesser value, all these politicians get their assets valued by some professionals who while valuating it at the minimum keep the law in their mind…

and as far as the comment of IK is concerned about auditing his assets, what the crap statement was that, get your accounts audited and put them on your website… after all, even NS says infact they have went a ahead and said that if IK found any assets belonging to NS and is not declared then that asset would be donated to SKCH..

But when it comes to IK and when he does the same, then the law and its explanation comes into account.. that is interesting… considering the fact that even IK does not intend to show or declare his assets at true market value even when there is no risk of getting taxed for the same… ( just to avoid documenting it because who knows, the wealth tax may return which i think was waved by Shokat Aziz)

as for Yazdi, You are not the leader of the nation nor are you the preacher for the asset declaration… but IK is said to be the leader of the nation and is preacher of this NON-SENSE asset declaration kind of thing… and my question still stand, how would you like to declare assets? the way IK does it or in its true spirit??? because the way IK does it, everyone is doing it, then what is the fuss and in true spirit very few does it.. and IK is not one of them as you rightly mention he takes the cover of the law on that front…

and as per above, no one can blame NS or Zardari for not declaring their assets, because as per the law, they have declared their assets and if anyone like me does not agree with the declaration, should consult IK and ask him how to declare the assets…

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

Oh bhai,

then why always we comment on the wealth and assets of our POOR POLITICIANS.. why we always then blame every politician of showing assets at lesser value, all these politicians get their assets valued by some professionals who while valuating it at the minimum keep the law in their mind...

and as far as the comment of IK is concerned about auditing his assets, what the crap statement was that, get your accounts audited and put them on your website.... after all, even NS says infact they have went a ahead and said that if IK found any assets belonging to NS and is not declared then that asset would be donated to SKCH..

But when it comes to IK and when he does the same, then the law and its explanation comes into account.. that is interesting... considering the fact that even IK does not intend to show or declare his assets at true market value even when there is no risk of getting taxed for the same... ( just to avoid documenting it because who knows, the wealth tax may return which i think was waved by Shokat Aziz)

as for Yazdi, You are not the leader of the nation nor are you the preacher for the asset declaration... but IK is said to be the leader of the nation and is preacher of this NON-SENSE asset declaration kind of thing... and my question still stand, how would you like to declare assets? the way IK does it or in its true spirit???? because the way IK does it, everyone is doing it, then what is the fuss and in true spirit very few does it.. and IK is not one of them as you rightly mention he takes the cover of the law on that front...

and as per above, no one can blame NS or Zardari for not declaring their assets, because as per the law, they have declared their assets and if anyone like me does not agree with the declaration, should consult IK and ask him how to declare the assets....

@hanibal brother, you are not trying to understand the issue here. It's not a choice the way you declare your wealth statement. Wealth tax has been abolished but you are still required to submit your wealth statement in a prescribed manner.. and you can not declare your wealth statement at present market valuation. You have to do it at the purchase price. I gave you an example of my own case. I would like to declare my wealth statement at present market value to avoid future capital gain tax as today it does not make any difference because there is no wealth tax involved. But I can not do it .. simple.. it's the law..!!!

When you declare your assets to election commission you have to declare them at present market value when you run for a public office. Simple..

As IK's criticism is involved, it is not directed against the normal MNA/MPAs who declare their wealth truthfully.. it is particularly directed towards Nawaz Sharif and Zardari.. who have not declared their foreign assets truthfully. We know for sure Zardari has money in hi Swiss accounts.. he has not declared the source of these assets in his tax returns.. Similarly Nawaz Sharif has properties in London and his son is doing a huge business in London.. where are the declaration of the source of investments for these guys..???

[kakaballi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are…

@kakaballi

Now, repeat with me: “It is NOT ALLOWED by PAKISTANI TAX LAW to declare your assets AT MARKET VALUE in the wealth statement”.

@hanibal

.. that is interesting… considering the fact that even IK does not intend to show or declare his assets at true market value even when there is no risk of getting taxed for the same…

Cannot really say anything more here.

Do you even know the difference between electoral laws and taxation laws? Do you even know Imran is not a member of parliament? Do you know which ‘declaration of assets’ is he talking about?

Look at pages 256-258 of this document. This is where you need to declare market value of assets and we see our POOR politician there. They need to submit this form every year and every year we see our esteemed members of parliament declaring themselves living below poverty line.

[NomiCA]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

Normal citizen declaration of asset = wealth statement (historical cost)
Parliamentarian/Electoral candidate=election commission declaration (present market value)

is this ^ correct??

[kakaballi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

^ wealth statement is not a formal 'declaration of assets'. It is just used by the taxation officers to reconcile your declared income/expenses for the year with INCREASES/DECREASES in your assets during the year.

and yes, you HAVE TO list your assets AT COST in wealth statement submitted to tax people.

[yazdi]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

Normal citizen declaration of asset = wealth statement (historical cost) Parliamentarian/Electoral candidate=election commission declaration (present market value)

is this ^ correct??

One is for taxation purposes.. the other one is for public information about the person who presents himself for a public office.

BTW if it was allowed to declare your wealth statement on market valuation without any capital gain tax/wealth tax as per current tax regime in Pakistan.. believe me 100% of the tax payers would make their wealth statements on market value. FBR does not allow that because they anticipate the return of capital gain tax sometime in future which would generate huge amount of tax for them if the gain is calculated from the original purchase/cost price. This will eventually be challenged in the court of law as they can not tax people with retrospective effect, and the calculation will eventually be made from the day this tax will be applied. But presently some bureaucrat in FBR thinks he has done great service to the nation by keeping this format..!!!

These are very technical issues and not easy to understand the logic behind all this..!!!

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

Have you assessed the cost of boundary wall only ?
Has it be shown some where ?
He is licking well the 'Boots'
But Boots never allow one to go much high
So wait

[Eshal_Raza]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

It wont make any difference to me at least whether he holds assets in Millions, Billions or Zillions be it $, € or £... Nobody is perfect...I simply want to see some new faces in Pakistani politics...and i want this change right now!!!
Enough for all the "established" parties!!!

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Friedrich Nietzsche

[Sachaydino]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. " Friedrich Nietzsche

Hitler followed the same myth of superman, created by Nietzshe. Pakistan dosen't need Hitler of 21st century.

[Eshal_Raza]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are...

Oh please....nobody can forecast tomorrow and you are talking about years.....

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: And Assets of Imran Khan are…

@Eshal_Raza

It wont make any difference to me at least whether he holds assets in Millions, Billions or Zillions be it $, € or £… Nobody is perfect…I simply want to see some new faces in Pakistani politics…and i want this change right now!!!
Enough for all the “established” parties!!!
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. "
Friedrich Nietzsche

I am 100 % agree with you, We should get rid of these old ,dirty ugly faces .http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/299963_244236112298222_123461927708975_618112_624594477_n.jpg