Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
You guys forget the Temple compound at Katas.. Which also happened to have a very central role in Hindu rligion… Apparently it was where the pandya brothers stayed during their adventure, and its also where part of the Mahabarath is thought to have taken place..
This place was also mentioned by Hun Sangh in his travels around 600 bc I believe, although im not sure if the site was Hindu at the time of Buddhist..
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Seems a lot more intelleigent then you:rolleyes:
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
THose who converted to Islam were mostly from the lower caste.People from the Upper caste also embraced islam but mostly the lower caste became muslim.Islam appealed to the lower caste more then the upper caste because there is no caste system in islam and in islam everyone is equal.
Pakistanis of punjab and sindh almost look same as the people of haryana punjab dehli gujrat marashtra rajastan the areas which are closed to our provinces and we share borders with.the people of NWFP and Balochistan are different from indians and we dont have any one who look like the people of south indian states. The people of bangaldesh(former east pakistan) look like the people of assam and bengal.But muslims in all parts of india will look different from indians as well because those who came from arabian countries,afghansitan turkey iran are different from other indians for example the rohilla nawabs or the nawabs of rampur in UP they will look much like pathans then indians. many mahajirs are also from these families thats why they look different from hindus of that region.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
You know what there werent any people existing in pakistan prior to the arrival of arabs. It was just barren land. For those of you who believe that their ancestors were buddhists , buddhism is an offshoot of hinduism...
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
//Even before Partition, there would be one Hindu (mostly banya) in the whole village. Few that were in fact involved in agriculture, converted to Sikhism many centuries ago. .//
That is why partition happened. How foolish can you get. The topic here is not about if there were large number of hindus in Pakistan prior to partition. The topic is about the ancestry of the pakistanis.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
what about india muslims they dont come from turkey or arab land.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
does it really matter of my ancestors were hindu or not??.. get ova it.. wats gone is gone.. so screw all.. and m glad my ancestors made the righ choice..
btw all arabs were pagans or otehr stuff before they became muslims.. so don expect that my ancestore just expanded from arab also.. otherwise i would be lookin like iranian or sumfine..
bt in the end.. it doesnt matter who were ur ancestors.. everyon is liable for their own deed..
Allah hafiz
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
it matters what is your background
Arab militias armed by the Central Government of Jumhuriyat as-Sudan are starving, raping and murdering non-Arab residents of Sudan’s Darfur Province. Arabs, one can readily guess, must be Muslim. Who are these Arabs starving, raping and murdering? What is the religion of the victims? Answer: The victims are all Muslim as well; black, non-Arab, ethnic African Muslims. African Muslims of Darfur are not just Muslim but they are “deeply, devoutly, unshakably Muslim.”
http://www.jang-group.com/thenews/sep2004-daily/26-09-2004/oped/o4.htm
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
ummm.. so are u trying to say that if my ancestors were hindu.. and converted to islam.. does that mean m in deep danger???.. or if my ancestors were of arab.. does that make me more pure muslim??.. or my ancestors were not hindu.. dose that make me free from attrocities??
i dono wat ur tryin to get at there rvikz.. those sudaneses assholes are illiterate.. and racist assholes.. who try to go "pure" arab.. .. don mix religion with racism.. there are many arab christians.. and so on.. its call racism..
and ur sayin that those "arabs" must be muslim.. well to clear it out for u.. a muslim is follower of islam.. and the first thing in islam is not to kill innocent ppl... so u judge.. are they muslim????..
stop being so thick.. ok m proud my ancestors were hindu and became muslim.. happ??.. doesnt give ****.. coz i am only gona give answer to allah... not to sum arab or non-hindu-ancestor..
Allah hafiz
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Has this got something to do with replacing Pakistan's national language with something else?
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Apart from historical perspective let us look at all this from the angle of racial and cultural affinity also. Here I will comment about Pashtuns, Baluchis, Dards, and Potoharis.
Ethnically, Pashtuns are an admixture of ancient Aryans ( whose modern offsprings are the mountain tribes like Wazir, Mahsuds, Daurs, Afridis, Orakzais, Bangash, Khattaks, Shaitaks, Jadran, Zazis, Mangals, Chamkanis, Toris, and Barkis...all these tribes are called Karlanis and probably their ancestors formed Pashtun proto-ethnicity..), Sakas (famous tribes like Yousafzais, Abdalis or Durranis, Mohammadzais, Marwats, Momands, etc.), and White Huns (Khiljis or Ghiljis, Lodis, Suris, Niazis, etc....called Matozais).
Many Pashun tribes got settled in Punjab e.g. Niazis of Mianwali, Khattaks and Yousafzais of Attock, Khwaishgis of Qasur, Khakwanis and Durranis of Multan, Kakaizais of Lahore, etc. In fact Pashtuns have lost many tribes e.g. Lodis, Soris, Niazis, etc. So Pashtuns contributed to Punjabi ethnicity, particularly to its elite classes. But this was not just one way traffic.
I and my friends have wondered for a long time why the artisan classes among Pashtuns of Charssada, Sawabi, and Mardan plain i.e. Peshawar Valley are black/tane colored and have very high i...ncidence of black eyes and almost none of green, brown, or blue eyes. Later we discovered that theey were not originally a Pashtun stock. Probably, they were either an indegenous people whom Pashtuns conquered and assimilated in their ethnicity or migrants from Punjab that took over the non-martial professions (like carpenting, cobbling, etc. ). In original Pashtuns, on the contrary, rose-white color is rather the norm and black color an exception; some Pashtuns also have tane color. As for eye color, most Pashtuns have brown and green eyes and many blue...black eyes have a low i...ncidence among Pashtuns. Tempramentally also, original Pashtuns are more assertive than the artisan classes. Whatever, these classes have added color and beauty to Pashtun race and Pashtuns are proud to have them as an important element of their ethnicity. Their present generations are rising to high places in existing social order.
As for culture, Pashtuns so far had a tribal social culture and values. The tribal social structure is fastly crumbling thanks the modern modes of communication, production, and politico-economic relations. Their values are also changing, some being transformed, some reversed, and some new created. Pashtunwali, an ancient tribal code, carries the essence of their culture. In traditional Pashtun Society, Islam has played an important role at social level (but not at political or economic level). So Islam is one part of the ideological culture of Pashtuns other elements of which have been drawn from Pashtunwali. The material culture of Pashtuns has a distinct form probably different from that in Hindustan. In food, dress, household culture, etc. they have different preference. Pashto is an East Iranian language closer in linguistic affinity to languages spoken in Pamir e.g. Wakhi, Yadgha, Yazdghulami, Yaghnobi, Parachi, Ossetian, etc. Before conversion to Islam in 11th Century, Pashtuns practiced a variety of religions including Paganism, Zorostranism, Bhudism, and probably also Hinduism. My own ancestors were fire-worshipers (being Gabres).
Baluchis are also an Iranic people with a tribal social structure and speaking a Western Iranian language. There are divergent claims about their ethnicity but they seem to be descended from ancient Medians, Parthians, or Sakas. Probably they practiced Zorostrian religion before Islam. Their physiogymy is also different from Hindustani people.
Dards are the inhabitants of Chitral, Gilgit, Indus Kohistan, Kashmir, Hazara, etc. that speak languages neither part of Iranian nor Indian sub-family. Physiogymically and complexion-wise, they are closer to Pashtuns but in social structure, values, and temprament are a bit different than Pashtuns and Baluchis with emphasis on industry than martial traditions. They also probably practiced Bhudism, Zorostrianism, and Paganism befor Islam reached them.
Potoharis are another ethnicity of Pakistan that are markedly different from mainstrean Hindustanis. Among the people to the east of Indus, they are the least Indianized, although they speak an Indic language. Unlike Pashtuns and Baluchis, they have a peasant social culture. Their material culture is also like Dards, Pashtun, and Baluch people with Shalwar-Qamis, unlike Dhoti, as the dress. Their villages give a different feelings than the rest of the Punjab (beyond Jehlam) and they construct high-walled houses unlike the open houses in villages to the east of Jehlam. They are a simple people and have martial traditions. Their color complexion is also different. I don't know what they practiced before Islam.
Anyhow, at present Pakistan seems to be a conflict zone of two civilizations and two streams of ethnicities; the Parso-Turkik-Arabic Civilzation and Dardic, Pashtuns, Baluchis, and Potoharis of the NorthWest with center of gravity in Middle East, Persia, and Central Asia; and the Indic Civilization and Punjabis, Muhajirs, and Sindhis of the Southeast with center of gravity in Gangtic plain. Islam is a Middle Eastern religion but Urdu/Hindi is the language of Gangtic plain. Would the Potoharis, Baluchis, Pashtuns, and Dards pull Muhajirs, Punjabis, and Sindhis towards the West away from the center of gravity of Hindustani Civilzation or would Muhajirs, Sindhis, and Punjabis pull Dards, Pashtuns, Baluchis, and Potoharis away from the Middle East/Persia/Central Asia towards the east....Or would a split occur with Pashtuns, Balluchis, Dards, and may be Potoharis not willing to be desolved in the great melting pot going their own way...?
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Everyone knows pakistanis are from Pluto.. 
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Irony is that Islam, one pillar of Pakistani identity, is Middle Eastern but Urdu (or Hindi) is Hindustani. Geographical proximity, combined with racial and linguistic affinities, may gravitate the things in favor of Hindustani Civization. As for Islam, it would have little impact for Hindustan already is a great admixture and melting pot of religions and races. It has 130 millions Muslims and Islamic institutions like Deoband, Nadwatul Ulama etc.
Otherwise also, religion, and that too a universal religion like Islam, cannot give a people an identity.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Hindustani/South Asian Civilization is a great civilization and as a Pashtun I am willing to be a part of it but give me a fair contract...that is I will have a fair degree of control over my resources, that I will have the freedom to promote my language, and that my people will be having relious liberty to organize their social lives according to the traditions of Islam if they want...
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
I don't give a damn if my ancestors were Hindu, Muslim, Jew or whatever. What matters to me is what I am today, what I am doing with my life, others' lives, world etc, whether as Pakistani or Muslim. If they were Muslims, good for them, if not then too bad for them :p
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
If only religious identity and individual life are enough, then why all this crap of Pakistani nationhood? Yes, one has his own individuality and as such is apart from the group but at the same time is also a part of the group and so has a group identity. Muslim identity is a utopian notion that is politically, economically, and socially infeasible.
I give so much importance to my group and am interested in my history and roots because that gives me a feeling of continuity in time and a sense of "greater-being" than just me.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
According to Winston Churchill: "India is no more a country than the Equator".
India is purely a British creation. The British conquered the various nations/kingdoms of South Asia and for the ease of administration consolidated them into a single unit called India. No country with such size or name existed prior to its British invention.
The fact is India is more like a continent.
Northwest India is linguistically Indo-Aryan, Northeast India is Sino-Tibetan, South India is Dravidian, and Central/East India is Austric.
There are many different religions in India. Shaivism is more popular in South India, Kali-worship more popular in W. Bengal, Northeast Indians are either Animists or Christians, Keralans/Goans are mostly Christian, East Punjabis are mostly Sikhs, Kashmiris are mostly Muslim, Rajasthanis are mostly Saur-worshippers, etc etc
The various nations in India are Guajaratis, Bengalis, Tamils, Rajasthanis, Nagas, Manipurans, Assamese, Andhras, Maharashtans, etc. with their own unique languages, cultures, and identities.
Then Northwest Indians tend to have more of the Caucasoid racial element, Northeast Indians have more of the Mongoloid racial element, and South/East/Central Indians have more of the Australoid-Dravidoid racial element.
All of these facts is also true for the Muslims in these regions.
There is NO commonality among Indians except for being former British colonies!
On the other hand, Pakistanis have much more commonality with each other. All Pakistanis (Pashtuns, Punjabis, Baluchis, Kashmiris, Seraikis, and Sindhis) are:
Geographically based around Indus river and its tributaries
Linguistically Indo-Iranian
Common Harappan-Aryan-Scythic-Turkic-etc heritage
Mostly racially Caucasoid mixed with others
Culturally a blend of Muslim and Indo-Iranian roots
Followers of the religion of Islam
So this notion of "only" Islam uniting Pakistanis is false.
If only Islam had united Muslims of British Raj then there would be no Bangladesh today (separation of East Pakistan ... since Bengalis are racially, linguistically, culturally, etc. different from Pakistanis).
Also, Pakistan was never created for "all" Muslims of British India, an impossible task to accomplish. Exchange of population was never suppose to happen but occured any way to some extent because of communalism on both sides.
Pakistan was created as a federation of Muslim-majority states of the British Raj. In fact, two prominant leaders of Pakistan movement, Muhammad Iqbal and Rehmat Ali proposed creation of Pakistan as only a federation of Punjab, NWFP, Sindh, Baluchistan, and Kashmir... based on their common history, geography, culture, language, race, defense, religion, and economics.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
“Pakistani nationhood” refers to people of Pakistan living in the region now defined. If this “nation” is not 5000 years old, so what, there is always beginning of everything.
Regarding YOUR “connection”/“continuity” how does it really contribute to your being “productive” in society? how does it effect your social/economical performance?
In Islam, there is no reward for belonging to a particular race/region/place, so I darn care where I was born and what they were 500 years ago, all I care about is what that place is TODAY and what it does TODAY. History is just that, history.
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Today being in an islamic land sucks...so that should answer your question :D
Re: Ancestors of Pakistanis were NOT Hindu!
Pakistan4ever
Chaudary rahmat ali not only talked about pakistan but other regions of indian sub continent as well.people only know him as the person who coined the word pakistan.rehmat ali mentioned the word pakistan in "THE MILLAT AND HER TEN NATIONS" pakistan is one of the region which includes the bengal region,usmanistan(hyderabad deccan) and other muslim areas of india.rehmat remained a controversial figure because of his disagreements with the quaid e azam.He is buried in london and sometime back when chaudary shujaat said that he will bring his boy back on 14th august he was criticised by media political and social circles.
I accept that some people from pakistan are different from india but not the majority and we should accept this.Ask a white(caucasian) person that can you differentiate between an indian and pakistani he wont be able to distinguish between the two.A pakistani or an indian can differentiate between the people of the two countries but not someone outside this region.
And pakistan was created in the name of islam and for muslims and east pakistan was separated from us just because west pakistanis did not treat them well.Great injustice was done with them.There were other factors for the division like the mukti bahini was helped by the neighbouring country
You didnot mention the katchi population living in karachi before partition with them the gujrati and marati speaking hindus.parsis goanese christians speaking english and konkani.The makrani baloch of lyari in karachi.Their language and culture is a mix of many areas and regions.They look like africans they speak a language close to sindhi and balochi call themselves baloch still have african traditions in their lifestlye.The brahvi/brohi speak a language which is mixed with balochi and sindhi and live in balochistan and sind.The People of Thar desert with many dialects with influences from sindhi rajastani marwari.I wont include the urdu speaking population because they came to this region from india after 1947