Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
^
Wrong. The Khan of Kalat is not a Pashtun but of Brahui (Dravidian) origin.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
Well, if you insist… Not sure if im willing to agree with you completely. Being so close for so long, obviously the Balochis and Pathuns have some commanlilates. But point still remains, dont the MINORITY Baloch worry when AFGHAN Pashtuns come and take over their province and make THEM a minority… THEY DO have an identity outside of Pasthuns dont they, otherwise they wouldnt call themselves Baluchis. Still, Why is it that we dont seem to have the same objetion to your people flooding all the other parts of our country with Pasthuns and their kin. Karachi is filled to the brim woth Pasthuns and so are may parts of Punjab. Even our villages have Afghan refugees running around. Why is it that when we complain where being prejudice, but when thee Arse holes do it, they are voicing their national right?
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
Some body answer this, preferably the Mengal supporters like Dinosaur.
Why should we not develop places like Gawadar, when it wasnt even a part of Pakistan initially but a part of the emirates at one point.
And why should we even bother to take into consideration the wishes of the sardars when a good number of Gwadar residents arent even Balochis...
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
Silly,
The Khanat of Kalat was started by a Pashtun named "Samandar Khan" in 1600's and ended in 1950's. The Khan of Kalat call themseves Baruhi but would also say that their origin is Pashtun.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
all we should care about a prospering pakistan ....and getting into punjabi/sindhi/balochi dispute will only help to hold us back....why cant we realize that we are muslim brother , who should work towards making our country a better place !!!
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
Give Balochis all the rights in the world, but in no way should any Pakistan citizen be prevented from living and working where ever they wish.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
What did Sardar Sahib do to build these roads, bring electricity, or market facilities. Nothing. Zilch. What else you expect from Surkhais, and Kabuli Kommies.
So This Sardar sahib don’t want to deal with Punjabis, and instead happy to see Americans “driving towards Balochistan”. Trading a brown superior with a white master is nothing but a clear indication of slave mentality.
Sardar Sahib is now turning from a card carrying commie to a European fascist. This simpleton doesn’t know what Americans do to petty tribals. Read about Sitting Bull, Civil War, David Koresh of Branch Davidian , and Ruby Ridge (in that order).
America is powerful because it kicks @r$e of tribals and anarchists. Mengal would be hanging by his neck on a tall tree if Balochistan was under American influence. Kapeesh!!
Bunch of nut cases want to be the leader sheader. My foot.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
i dont know what made you think baloch and pashtuns despise each other. the baloch despise the pakistani army fed mullahism that is fed to them but not pashtuns.
every pashtun nd pathan will remain an afghan. an afghan is some one who is of that lineage. an afghani on the other had is someone that lives in afghanistan.
these are two very different words. by the way you would no longer be a pakistani by your descrpition
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
because the more powerful groups within pakistan want to keep hold of their power and luxurious lifestyles.
he dispute sadly is a real one but those in the army wont fix it because they feel they will lose out some how.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
answer this why are there no balochies on the forum? why does there seem to be a lack of sindhis here? why do a number of pashtuns have opposing views to this forum?
ok i am not Balochi but i can sympathise with them. how would you feel that for 50 years you are neglected but then suddenly you are being over run by foreigners who have built huge houses, good schools and to be honest the locals wil probably never fit in here. to balochies it seems that gwadar is only being built to serve punjabs interests and not their own. and do you blame them for thinking this way? why should gwadar suddenly get a few luxuries because a few people from punjab move here with the army. would nt you feel neglected? then you woud probably have separate facilities such as schools, hospitals in the from of cantonment appartheid. i am pretty much sure that they will bring police officers from punjab and with that corruption on a wider scale. i am not saying punjabies are corrupt but how do you think these police officers would treat locals? would they be sensitive to their needs? and another thing these outsiders would probably employ their own people from their own areas, giving the natives less chance of a social uplift.
no one wants to be swamped and overtaken. i see how native white british feel when they live in high pakistani and bengali populations. they feel sidelined and many feel they are driven out.
when the pakistani government is dealing with sardars then its adding fuel to the fire. it should go and deal witht he baloch people directly. only a colonial country would strengthen a go between to achieve its own objectives. i am not pro-mengal or bugti but right now to most baloch they are heroes and freedom fighters. why did nt it go to make decent schools, hospitals etc there in the first place?
if gwadar becomes a succesful project people will move from punjab and a significant amoount of pashtuns would come too. in fact it would be pashtuns who would probably see more economic benefit than the balochies.
then you have political voting changes. if gwadar does become a successful project the locals will lose out the town politically and they would be led by and dependent upon insensitive outsiders unless there is a ban on them voting.
the gwadar issue shows the huge amount of mistrust between various pakistani ethnicities. the baloch have no stake or benefit from pakistan. it also shows the huge mistrust they have of the government. could you trust the pakistani government yourself? to be honest, i could nt.
gwadar should become a reality but the project must be handled with care. rarely do mega projects within pakistan aim to satisfy local needs. i hope i come close to answering your question or even offering an alternative viewpoint!
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
one thing karachi is a city with ahuge population and the city is stil controlled by those whose ancestry lies in India - i do not want to call them muhajirs as they ae no longer that. i cant call them urdu speakers as many pashtuns and punjabies have forgotten their native languages and now use Urdu as a home language. karachi has long had pashtun immigration way before 1947. karachi even though it has is problems manages to absorbs immigrants.
the afghan refugees and pashtuns that work in punjab tend to be poor. they exercise little clout and do not disturb the way of life there. they hardly bring cantonments witht hem which is what punjabis do when they decide to move somewhere. pashtuns are still a minority anywhere within Punjab. if a Pashtun did something wrong in your village im sure they would deal with them.
if gwadar does become a success - the native culture, language and traditions would be marginalised and evaporate because the people who wil move here wil OUTNUMBER the locals and also probably have more FINANCIAL clout backd by the state apparatus ie the army, police, securiy forces etc. so what you call a national right varies. they appear to be the same thing but
as for balochi-pashtun-afghan relations. pashtuns within the quetta side are more linked to afghan culture than the peshawaries are. you see more slogans for pashtunistan around zhob and quetta than in nwfp put together.
the balochies have had grapples with pashtuns but these are a thing of the past. with afghans coming in the 1980's i believe the balochis probably resented it but like pashtuns have a firm belief in hospitality. there appears to be no huge conflict beween balochies and afghans or pashtuns. the balochies know that the pashtun nationalist leadersip supports their cause too.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
**Wedding guests die in mine blast **
At least 26 people have been killed after their vehicle hit a landmine in the south-western Pakistan province of Balochistan, officials say.
Several people were also injured in the explosion in Dera Bugti, about 300 km (180 miles) from Quetta.
Officials say the mine was planted by tribal rebels. The vehicle was carrying people to a wedding party.
Gas-rich Balochistan has seen months of violence as tribal groups push for greater political and economic rights.
Tribal separatists have attacked gas plants, electricity lines and railway tracks.
Attacks
The BBC’s Zaffar Abbas in Islamabad says Friday’s incident has led to the heaviest civilian casualties in a single incident, since armed clashes began between government forces and a militia led by a powerful tribal chief, Nawab Akbar Bugti.
Officials said the vehicle was carrying a wedding party when it hit at least one anti-tank mine near the town of Rakhni, a local official said.
The victims are said to belong to a clan opposed to Nawab Akbar Bugti.
“Most of the dead are women and children. Seven people were injured,” a spokesman for the Baluchistan provincial government, Raziq Bugti, told Reuters news agency.
He said the number of casualties and the damage suggested that “there could have been more than one land mine but we have not confirmed that at this stage”.
Raziq Bugti said the landmine had been planted by rebels who have been fighting security forces in the region.
There have been a spate of land mine attacks in the troubled province.
On Thursday, two landmine blasts in Dera Bugti killed a civilian and injured seven others.
The elected administrator of Dera Bugti, Kazim Bugti, said recently that both tribal rebels and security forces planted landmines in the area.
Government forces launched military operations in the Kohlu and Dera Bugti districts of Balochistan in December after rockets were fired near President Musharraf when he visited the province.
According to local tribal leaders, a large number of civilians have died in the military operation, but this has not been confirmed by officials.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
the afghan refugees and pashtuns that work in punjab tend to be poor. they exercise little clout and do not disturb the way of life there. they hardly bring cantonments witht hem which is what punjabis do when they decide to move somewhere. pashtuns are still a minority anywhere within Punjab. if a Pashtun did something wrong in your village im sure they would deal with them.
** if gwadar does become a success - the native culture, language and traditions would be marginalised and evaporate because the people who wil move here** wil OUTNUMBER the locals and also probably have more FINANCIAL clout backd by the state apparatus ie the army, police, securiy forces etc. so what you call a national right varies. they appear to be the same thing but
as for balochi-pashtun-afghan relations. pashtuns within the quetta side are more linked to afghan culture than the peshawaries are. you see more slogans for pashtunistan around zhob and quetta than in nwfp put together.
the balochies have had grapples with pashtuns but these are a thing of the past. with afghans coming in the 1980's i believe the balochis probably resented it but like pashtuns have a firm belief in hospitality. there appears to be no huge conflict beween balochies and afghans or pashtuns. the balochies know that the pashtun nationalist leadersip supports their cause too.
You seem like a reasonable person mate. No offense but I find the statement above bizarre.
Would you discourage success if it brought in other people to work in the area?
Is'nt that a tad xenophobic and regressive?
By the same token, the Urdu Speaking of Karachi can say the same about migrants to that city can they not?
Development can be painfull, but I think that we have to leave behind some of our hang ups and phobias of other groups to achieve it.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
The Pak army doesnt have to do anything, seems these Sardars are digging thier own graves
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
i am just echoing their thoughts and believe me a significant amount of balochies feel this way, and as the days pass by they are feeling more anti-pakistan.
the urdu speaking people have NO historical claim over karachi. they have only been present since 1947. they are stil the dominant ethnic group by politics and economics and numbers. in gwadar this wont be the case.
your right development is a must - but at what cost? see i echoed a balochi's thoughts and im called xenophobic and regressive.
the pakistan government has handled balochistan very badly and its showing now. the balochies have every right not to trust the government. the government is trying to use force to deal with balochistan. its is simply the wrong option! its pushing balochies further and further away. there has to be dialogue and development, especially for the local people!
letting in immigrants can cause huge problems. look at afghanistan - they alowed tajik and uzbek refugees when communist Russia took over and now the ethnic afghans are suffering!
gwadar will create a substitute for karachi. it will lessen pakisan reliance on karachi. dont be suprised if the MQM is involved in the baloch uprisings. they have alot to lose from gwadar.
te reason why the balochies are probably expressing such views is because they dont trust the government? the question is - how do you make the government sincere and make sure the locals feel a social uplift before others?
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
probably wrong - the army and government is losing writ over balochistan. force wont establish writ.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
the urdu speaking people have NO historical claim over karachi. they have only been present since 1947. they are stil the dominant ethnic group by politics and economics and numbers. in gwadar this wont be the case.
your right development is a must - but at what cost? see i echoed a balochi's thoughts and im called xenophobic and regressive.
the pakistan government has handled balochistan very badly and its showing now. the balochies have every right not to trust the government. the government is trying to use force to deal with balochistan. its is simply the wrong option! its pushing balochies further and further away. there has to be dialogue and development, especially for the local people!
letting in immigrants can cause huge problems. look at afghanistan - they alowed tajik and uzbek refugees when communist Russia took over and now the ethnic afghans are suffering!
gwadar will create a substitute for karachi. it will lessen pakisan reliance on karachi. dont be suprised if the MQM is involved in the baloch uprisings. they have alot to lose from gwadar.
te reason why the balochies are probably expressing such views is because they dont trust the government? the question is - how do you make the government sincere and make sure the locals feel a social uplift before others?
Dont get me wrong, I completely agree with you that the central government has alienated Balochi people. Yet still, IMO development and economic prosperity should outweight cultural protectionisim. For example, we come from Patwari\Punjabi speaking people around Rawalpindi\Islmbd area. The development of Islamabad and area have brought in a huge influx of people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds, but I firmly believe that the good outweighs the bad. Even if kids start speaking urdu instead of local languages.... Perhaps its a point of perception. I would suspect the govt needs to give Balochis more of a stake in federal activities. But even then you wonder if the sardars would be anti development.
So tell me, in your opinion are all Balochis opposed to development, or is this more from leadership?
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
What I don’t like is tribal system and its manifestations in various forms in different areas of Pakistan. Panchaet, jirgas, feudalism, violent ethnocentrism etc. etc. Tribalism is not bad per se. But it has become a source of corruption, ethnocentrism and anti-Pakistan activities. Federal government never had any writ in many tribal areas of Pakistan. They have been more or less autonomous in the past. I’m attaching this article to give you an example of the kind of ‘authority’ federal authorities enjoy in Federally Administrated Tribal Areas.
Balochi warlords fully understand the implications of new economic activity in their areas. They would have to part with their sardari, their private armies and the loyalties of innocent and uneducated people. Baloch people, the people in FATA and all the impoverished and downtrodden people of ‘dominant’ groups must be given their rights. But it is NOT possible to bring prosperity to the region when warlords are buying millions of dollars of weaponry from across the border and calling upon their loyalists to discontinue education and arm themelves agaisnt their perceived or real enemies.
And let me be blatantly honest here. Some people whose ideas of racial/ethnic purity are same as those of KKK and Council of Conservative Citizens have become allies of these warlords only because they see some ‘future strategic partnership’ outside Pakistan. Another group of selfish ethnocentric politicans have suddenly become leaders and well-wishers of oppressed ‘Qaums’ against the ‘dominant’ groups. Who cares about Baloch people or Pakistan! Let’s play games!
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
Its hard to say what Balochies think but they know they have gas and many believe an indepedent Balochistan can survive on it's own. First and foremost the government must have made sure schools and hospitals which benefitted the majority were built but these were not. I believe that sychologically the Balochies are now lost from Pakistan. The longer the army stays there and bombs people the more Balochies wil hate Pakistan as a whole.
The Sardars are probably anti-development as they do not wan to lose control over the areas they lead.
imagine if gwadar becomes a reality - house prices would go up so only the rich would afford them. the locals would nolonger be a part of it. they would be outnumbered and more so by educated and richer people. they would most likely live in appartheid liek conditions. if the government has t carry out loadshedding who would it turn the elctricty off too - the newly built houses dwelled in by outsiders or the locals who live in their own area? woud the locals be allowed to attend the good schools which came into existence because of the newly arrived outsiders?
the trust has gone. it wil take time for it to be rebuilt. the government MUST involve the locals and make sure their demands are met. the last thing is the locals want to see is immorality and consumerism coming in from larger cities.
Re: AN INTERVIEW OF SARDAR MENGAL
I think force wil go a long way in shuting up the sardars. So far the govt has been patient. But if it comes down to it, the Balochis can be crushed in no time. They dont stand a chance. But, the only thing is that for a long term solution, a political resolution is in demand. I mean kill mengal and Bukti today and in aother ten or twenty years another will replce them...