I would like to draw the Mod’s attention to the fact that the differences between Pakistanis and Indians thread is now 4 pages with no educational evidence or value. I therefore insist on opening a new thread that is purely and utterly educationally based, unprovocative, and neutral. The first hint of some sort of India or Pakistan or other nationality bashing, and the offensive post gets deleted.
I will open with a couple of pieces of introductory scientific evidence, and then will get into specifics. Eveything in this thread should be referenced as it is an academic thread, pictures of people are welcome, ANY non referenced stuff will be deleted by the mods as will any posts aimed at insulting or being provocative. On with the first piece of evidence.
Haplogroups
A haplogroup is basically a DNA indicator of your ancestral line. As an example, all the people in the world who are Hg3 or R1a1, can trace their lineage back to the same paternal ancestor that lived around abouts 10,000 years ago. It is a poor indicator of relatedness amongst humans, but it is one.
Haplogroups of Pakistan (clickable map)
In particular pay attention to the orange part of the Pakistani ethnic groups (Hg3, also known as R1a1). Hg3/R1a1 can be found in every ethnic group in Pakistan
Now to look at Indian ethnic groups.
Haplogroups of India
One thing is clear. India contains a lot less Hg3/R1a1 in Eastern, Central and Southern ethnic group populations than Pakistan. Northwest India does contain some more Pakistani like groups however. Are these distinguishable. Later if the thread gets that far, the question will indeed be answered.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
It’s been reported that the Iranian haplogroups are basically the same as the Turkish one (proof later), which as you can see in the above is not the same as the Pashtun one. Clearly Pashtuns speak a slightly related language but are different people to Iranians/Persians etc.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
I don’t know the subject in as detail as you but Pakis are more Aryanised than Indians..
Just one thing, which IDIOT drew that map?
Jammu-Kashmir and Northern Areas which is racially and religiously a part of Pakistan is being showed a part of India, even the ‘Azad/Independent’ bits .. Somebody edit that map or I’ll have an hearta-attack with rage.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
Only a minority from Persia are of pure Persian descent (not even them a 100%), like with all places the Indo-Iranians in Iran mixed with other local races..
I would say Iranians are more Azeri by race than Persian, the current regime in Iran which isn’t Persian at all but Azeri are encouraging the Iranisation of it’s people by settlling them closer togther.. There have even been incidences of kidnapping more Afghan girls for marriage to Iranise themselves more.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
Brazilians are HOT.
Mixed race is hottt..
Race isn't really relevant in this day and age, your culture (language) and region (country) defines your nationality, we're all a mixture anyway.. I guess we're fcuked then because our culture is like Indians, language more than anything else and language is the biggest hallmark of a culture.. If Indians all adopted Dravidian, we'd have Sanskrit (related to Avestan and Old Persian) and be more associated with our Central Asian neighbours but that's not happening because our Dravidian neighbours to the east have kidnapped our heritage.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
Roadrunner, you don’t have to do this research. First of all this will be a new topic for many of us. Eastern, Central and South Indians are culturally quite different from North Indians. See them, talk to them and QED. Why all this Jhamela.
*But the fact is all these races/ethnic groups have coexisted in Bharatvarsh since time immemorial. *
*Reliefs showing Hindu deities (narsimha) ‘Human head and Lion’s body’ have been found in Mexico. Vandev or tree worshiping was an ancient practice. Such symbols have been found even in Pyramids of Egypt. (www.hinduwisdom.info) *
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*Societal influence was seen in far flung regions. Angkor vat has temples depict stories from Ramayan and Mahabharat. (Kim/Hur) Old Royal families of Korea had relations with India. Princess was from Ayodhya. *
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When we talk about history we should be careful about which period of human history we are talking about. Life on this planet always goes through the cycle of creation, preservation and destruction. Nobody can change that.
** I find that most of the members are so blinded by their faith that don’t even want to explore about others. Following religion is one thing…exploring and seeking knowledge is another. Latter seem to be low priority for many members.
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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
The majority Iranian haplogroups resemble the Turkish Y-chromosome which reflects the spread of people from Anatolia after the last Glacial Ice Age. From what I know, the Azeris rule in Iran but are a minority. Persians are the majority in Iran I think. A more comprehensive study shows the complete lack of Hg3/R1a1 from Iran, mentioned as M207 here.
If you expand the map, you can see M267 is the most common Iranian group which is common in the Levant on the whole. This is about 5% in Pakistan as an estimate (not sure how true it is).
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
Do not play with words. Eastern Indians, Central Indians are North Indians*.* The only Indians that share some similarity with Pakistanis, are NorthWest Indians. Not NorthEast Indians, not Northcentral Indians. Only NorthWest, but even these are more Dravidianized than Pakis on the whole.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
roadrunner, I agree with vineshvk that you should also provide links to the source of this information. It's not that we don't believe you, but rather to give the rightful author due credit
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi
maybe what he means to say is that the various pakistani ethnicities do not overlap with the many indian ethnicities as much as some people would like to believe. I think what he has shown so far does illustrate that very well.
Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring popu
Since I did say in my opening post that all pictures should be referenced why not?? Here is your reference for the haplogroups of India map. (the map with the Pakistani haplogroups is referenced on the map itself).
Ethnic India: A Genomic View, With Special Reference to Peopling and Structure
Analabha Basu,1,4 Namita Mukherjee,1,4 Sangita Roy,2,4 Sanghamitra Sengupta,1,4 Sanat Banerjee,1 Madan Chakraborty,1 Badal Dey,1 Monami Roy,1 Bidyut Roy,1 Nitai P. Bhattacharyya,3 Susanta Roychoudhury,2 and Partha P. Majumder1,5
The paper was in the Journal, “Genome Research”.
There is every reason to doubt uneducated people in denial, but I am not one of those people who you know. You should give up living in a world of denial like this Indian who posts pictures of Afghans and Pakistanis as Indian.
