American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

I have recently been reading an exceklent, Pulitzer Prize reading book by Rick Atkinson called “An Army at Dawn”, about the military campaign in North Africa from 1942-1943. One particular section showed that American soldiers were carrying out horrific atrocities against Arabs long before before they ever invaded Iraq. It was their so-called “Greatest Generation” that pioneered how to use the resources paid for by American taxpayers to kill and strike terror into innocent Arabs. Evidently, such tendencies are still there in their grandchildren.

Each day for the coming week, I shall copy a paragraph or two from this section of the book, summarising some historical American war crimes against Arabs.

Quite aside from the brief 2 pages on war crimes, this is a truly excellent book and is required reading for anyone wishing to understand how the crucible of combat against some of Germany’s best troops and generals transformed the US Army from its 1941 status as a bunch of horrifically inexperienced naive volunteers into a standing professional army with the thirst for victory.

A very thin membrane separates the sactioned rancor of war from sheer barbarism, and in North Africa shooting at Arabs became a sport in some units. Troops convinced themselves that the natives were in cahoots with the enemy or subhuman; they were called wogs - the slang came from the British, who rated Tunisian Arabs as “a serious menace” - and they lived in “woggeries”.

“We became rather ruthless with the Arab”, a 1st Division soldier wrote. “If we found them where they were not be, they were open game, much as rabbits in the States during hunting season”. Another soldier explained: “Here Arabs live all over. Some we shoot on sight, some we search, and some we make a deal with to buy eggs and chickens.” Soldiers boasted of using natives for marksmanship practice, daring one another to shoot an Arab coming over a hill like a target in an arcade. Others fired at camels to see the riders bucked off, or shot at the feet of Arab children “to watch them dance in fear,” as one 34th Division soldier recounted.

More to follow tomorrow. Later in the week, I’ll show how the US Army’s provosts and court martials were soft on those who murdered innocent Arabs in 1943, just as it just slaps the wrist of those who do such deeds today in Iraq.

2

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Highlighting the bad apples and ignoring the noble ones, classy MS, classy.

3

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Or, neglect to say that the Arabs were indeed allied with the Vische French and the Germans, and were indeed spying on the Allied Armies. It was not the Allies who "occupied" North Africa, it was the Nazis. The Nazi's and sympathetic French occupied North Africa. After expelling the Nazis, and pursuing them through Italy, North Africa was essentially free of occupying powers. Be sure to get the whole story straight, not pulling excerpts that prove some narrow point.

4

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

^^ Just ignore this thread

Its obvious that some poster probably told MS that in that particular book, it highlights some bad aspects of the US Military and MS giddly starts a new topic posting about it...

Maybe MS should post some articles on the German Military in World War II and crimes that they committed like the holocaust which lead to the death of 6 million of jews or the invasion of the soviet union which cost the lives of 27 million russians.

Or the Soviet Red Army which invaded Germany and killed 3 Million East Germans or their rampant Gang Rapes of German women and the pillaging of German cities in 1945 or their massacare of Polish Soldiers in 1939

Or Even the Japanese Army when it managed to kill 10 Million Chinese Civilians during their brutal occupation of China from 1931 to 1945 or when they used Korean Women as sex slaves or when they used captured Allied POW as slave labor

And lets not forget the Indian Army which has killed 100,000 People in Kashmir

Or the Pakistani Army which killed thousands in East Pakistan

Or the Syrian Army which killed 20,000 of its own citizens in Al-Hama Massacare in 1982

Get a Life MS

5

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

^^

If you dont like the message shoot the messenger. History is mostly written by the victorys and they conveniently forget to add the atrocities committed by their own armies. It gives a different perspective to history. While it is very easy to justify the atrocities committed based on root causes and the like, it is very essential that we do know the entire truth rather than a piecemeal version.

6

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

^^ Kinda like when India continues to massacare over 100,000 muslims in Kashmir

can u raise
7

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

It is not a question of who occupied what - it is rather a matter of atrocities having been committed, and swept away cleanly under the rug of victory.

Such acts in the past should not be forgotten, never be swept away. The same applies to any atrocity - be it on the scale of the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Srebrenica, Gujrat, East Pakistan, or whatever. In the case of many such acts, including East Pakistan, enough gets said that people are at least aware that something bad happened.

In the case of North Africa, nothing needed to be said about the French atrocities against the Arabs during the war (predominantly atrocities by the Free French on Arabs in territories taken from Axis control). After all, the French violence in North Afrida was part of the build up to the bloody Algerian war of independence.

American atrocities in North Africa have gone almost undiscussed. I consider myself to be a fairly knowledgable amateur WW2 historian and even I did not know about such acts until two days ago. These horrific things were ever so neatly buried away … and you can see the consequences today.

One point in Rick Atkinson’s writings resounds greatly to events today - the importance of winning hearts and minds. Throughout the North Africa campaign, Allied mistreatment of Arabs, particularly by the Free French, really made the natives of Tunisia resent the Allied forces. Time after time Allies capturing towns from the Germans would be met by sullen Arab faces; on the other hand, many Arab villages and towns welcomed the victories of the German Afrika Korps and cheered them in the streets for getting rid of the Allies, who they viewed as their oppresors.

The best example of this is General Erwin Rommel’s capture of the allied supply depot town of Gafsa. When German tanks shattered the Allied lines and the Americans realised that their ammunition dump was in danger, they blew up the ammunition as they abandoned the town to stop the German army getting it. However, the US army did not evacuate the arabs who lived near the dump before blowing it up. Over a hundred arab civilians were killed, hundreds more made homeless. The lack of regard for their lives so embittered the population of the town that wehen German troops rolled in the next day, they were greeted as liberators and showered with gifts by the population, chanting “Hitler! Rommel! Hitler! Rommel!” General Rommel was invited to dine with the local sheikh that evening.

History contains such poignant lessons for the future. Offending, embittering a population will drive them into embracing your enemy.

8

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Maybe MS should post some articles on the German Military in World War II and crimes that they committed like the holocaust which lead to the death of 6 million of jews or the invasion of the soviet union which cost the lives of 27 million russians.

-This is a pretty well known fact. You are wrong in one respect, however: Ther German military did not commit the holocaust, the Totemkopf SS did. These units of the SS were not under the command of the German military (Oberkommand der Wehrmacht), they were under the direct command of the Nazi Party.

Or the Soviet Red Army which invaded Germany and killed 3 Million East Germans or their rampant Gang Rapes of German women and the pillaging of German cities in 1945 or their massacare of Polish Soldiers in 1939

Both well known incident; indeed there was recentl an exhibition in Germany about the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Eastern Europe after WW2.

Or Even the Japanese Army when it managed to kill 10 Million Chinese Civilians during their brutal occupation of China from 1931 to 1945 or when they used Korean Women as sex slaves or when they used captured Allied POW as slave labor

Again, well known. Indeed if you search my posts you will find that I have often referred to Japanese war crimes, including the torture and beheading of my grandmother's only brother despite his status as a Prisoner Of War and a British officer.

And lets not forget the Indian Army which has killed 100,000 People in Kashmir
Well known, constantly discussed here

Or the Pakistani Army which killed thousands in East Pakistan

Well known, constantly discussed here

Or the Syrian Army which killed 20,000 of its own citizens in Al-Hama Massacare in 1982

Already been mentioned on Gupshup before

And so hence you'll notice that in bringing American war crimes in North Africa to light, I am in fact bringing up something new and which has not been discussed before on GS.

Numerical Miracle in Quran !!
9

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

The local population was hardly driven to embrace the Nazis. As an amateur historian, you continue to be, well, amateurish. There is not a conscript army on earth that has not behaved badly during war. As we have seen, even professional armies are tainted by the realities of war. What you have failed to do, is to look at the Nazi behavior during the same time. The Nazis were utterly ruthless to any local population they conquered. Taking Atkinsons book and sharing incidents hardly covers the whole story.

The Allied Armies chased the Nazis out of North Africa right? They did not claim North Africa as theirs, after the war they left RIGHT? Otherwise, North Africa might today be ruled under the Iron fist of the Nazis.

10

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

^^ Ohioguy forget it...

Its no use to talk to people like MS....

They look at history and historial events from a myopic zeal which chastises USA and the WEST as the brutal creatures to ever exist

And yet line up to get Visa to illegally immigrate to the West.

Talk about hypocracy....

And you actually complain when the USA and the West considers people like MS a dangerous fifth column

11

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson


Is there a new type of visa "Illegal Immigrant" now? Didn't know that one... anyway, continue on please.

12

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

ya its called a tourist visa or a forged visa with someone else's name on it

13

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

so you have to “lineup” for that one too? :hmmm:

14

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

merc2k if you dont have anything to say on the topic, get out.

15

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Are Muslims given the benefit of the doubt?

16

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

Are you making excuses for Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghreib and other atrocities, including the 13 year old girl who was raped and killed? Does self-hating Muslim/apologist mean anything to you?

17

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

there is nothing new in it. the victors always do that; the vanquished suffer.all the history of the world has been the same kind of thing. nothing new in it.

18

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

You are wrong on both counts. The Nazis were not “utterly ruthless” to all conquered populations - they were completely ruthless to populations that their racist ideology considered as enemies. An example of this case is the Ukrainians. Welcoming to German Army as liberators from communist tyranny, Ukrainians soon found the SS unleashed upon them anyway. On the other hand, Croats, Bosnian, Danes, and even Arabs were generally well treated as the Germans made every effort to win them over. Indeed, Rick Atkinson pointed out that Germany’s 6-month occupation of Tunisia generally won widespread support and very willing collaboration by Arabs because Germany implemented much more Arab-friendly policies than the previous French Colonial Administration (though admittedly such policies included confiscating the property of Jews amongst other acts). This was partly behind France’s collective punishment of the Tunisian people in the years that followed. (if you think American war crimes were bad… wait till you hear about what the French did)

On the second count, the Allies most certainly did claim North Africa as theirs after ejecting the Germans. Tunisia in particular ended up having to fight to achieve freedom from France, whose troops took control after the defeat of the Afrika Korps. Algeria was similarly put under the Free French boot after American troops ejected the Vichy French administration. Algeria ended up having to fight a long and brutal war of independence to achieve freedom from the Allies. Morocco too, handed over by America and Britain to the Free French, ended up having to do through a difficult struggle for independence even though it was largely non-violent.

19

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

You conveniently gloss over the treatment of 2000 year old Jewish communities in North Africa. Rounding up 10,000 and putting them in forced labor camps generally is considered a bit oppressive.

And while I am not going to justify French colonialism, The Brits and Ameircans who you are accusing of crimes were not there to occupy, they were there to challenge a totalitarian alliance. Sound familiar?

Mr.Kasab refuses food in prison and says he wants `Mutton Biriyani'
20

Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson

whatever they were there for, they admit to shooting innocent arabs for a hobby. what are your views on those americans?