Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
You may notice that I did reference anti-Semetic policies, such as the confiscation of Jewish property and “other acts”.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
^^ lol but your main focus has been to somehow find some dirt on American troops and generalize that all american soldiers are like that....
kind of what muslims and arabs today complain about when they are branded as terrorists
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
As I mentioned, enough talk has been made already about German atrocities against jews. We should also talk about other, forgotten, atrocities, so the north arican example has merit, especially given its relevance today.
At any rate, I don’t know why I bother replying to a slanderer such as yourself. Yesterday you said:
You deliberately overlooked my post from nearly a year ago, when I acquired the book, in order to imply that I do not have an interest in the period. Unless you are saying that back in November last year I made a post saying I had the book and had begun reading it in a fiendishly complicated plot to create a thread about 2 pages in it 10 months later.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=3681783&postcount=227
If you claim that you did not know I posted this a year ago, why did you not carry out a simple search on the book name on Gupshup to see if I was genuine about it? Instead, without doing any research, you set about on a character assassination effort to try and undermine me.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
I joined Gupshup in March 2006
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
And I joined much earlier, so why did you make no effort at all to determine if I had the book last year before stating that it is “obvious” that someone else told me about what was in it, resulting in me posting this thread?
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
OG opinion on that is **** happens. But if a nun is killed and we say **** happens, his ars becomes on fire and he cries Islam is violent.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Hmmm...very thoughtful and astute of you...what does a Arab Bedouin in a middle of the desert having nothing to do with any vichy or nazi regimes done to be ruthlessly and randomly killed...
Your anti-arab/muslim hatred and bigotry knows no bounds...its permeate in every virulent and filthy word you type on this message board...if it were upto you, you'd massacre each and evey muslim man, woman and children in the world...afterall genocide and mass killings is a long established european tradition....
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
No on the contrary OG and his ilk's opinion would be "good any dead muslim is a good muslim and why don't we kill them all, all 1.4 billion of them"...
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Bull crap. Go back through the threads on Abu Graib. I was certainly as upset as anyone over that debacle.
I just think that the perception of war as a clean sanitary linear proposition is false. War is Hell. Violence has a decivilizing effect on everyone, most of all the men who fight wars. But remember, the US stayed out of WWII for years. We did not want to fight, did not expect to fight, and Mad Scientist has chosen to carve out a snippet from the book, instead of enlightening you on the main thesis of the book.
Atkinson goes to considerable lengths do describe how the US army was barely servicable. We had very few professional soldiers, almost no equipment, thus the name of the book, "An Army at Dawn", refering to essentially starting from scratch to build an army. The Americans at war in North Africa were no better than farm boys. They were not highly trained, most had just come through basic training. Their officers had never fought a war, and the country had spent almost nothing on the army in peacetime. That is the thesis of the book.
That Mad Scientist has chosen to excerpt one comment, speaks more to his anti-American need to post some crap about America. What he could have told you but did not, is that the US was completely unprepared for war, much to the dismay of all of you who think that the US wanted to dominate the world. The decade before WWII the US let it's army literally rust away. Undoubtedly this led to increased confidence in both Japan and Germany that the US would not play a decisive role in the war. Any good amateur historian could have read that book and discovered that it is an historical mistake to underestimate the US, as the ability of the US to respond to threats is really quite remarkable. INstead this just became on more typical Gupshup circle jerk where one guy yells, "the US sucks" and all the lemming guppies dutifully nod their heads.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
As opposed to your unbiased posts which shows no hatred or bigotry toward America? :halo:
OG’s posts, while direct and to the point, hardly qualify as virulent and filthy. Anything that goes against the mantras that “Islam is perfect, Muslims are perfect” and the “woe-is-us, if we do have problems it is only because of the genocidal white devil” is deemed as anti-Muslim. Now apparently it also means that person wants to massacre every Muslim in the world. Get a grip.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
y would i want to waste my time doing that?
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
I just think that the perception of war as a clean sanitary linear proposition is false. War is Hell. Violence has a decivilizing effect on everyone, most of all the men who fight wars. But remember, the US stayed out of WWII for years. We did not want to fight, did not expect to fight, and Mad Scientist has chosen to carve out a snippet from the book, instead of enlightening you on the main thesis of the book.
Atkinson goes to considerable lengths do describe how the US army was barely servicable. We had very few professional soldiers, almost no equipment, thus the name of the book, "An Army at Dawn", refering to essentially starting from scratch to build an army. The Americans at war in North Africa were no better than farm boys. They were not highly trained, most had just come through basic training. Their officers had never fought a war, and the country had spent almost nothing on the army in peacetime. That is the thesis of the book.
That Mad Scientist has chosen to excerpt one comment, speaks more to his anti-American need to post some crap about America. What he could have told you but did not, is that the US was completely unprepared for war, much to the dismay of all of you who think that the US wanted to dominate the world. The decade before WWII the US let it's army literally rust away. Undoubtedly this led to increased confidence in both Japan and Germany that the US would not play a decisive role in the war. Any good amateur historian could have read that book and discovered that it is an historical mistake to underestimate the US, as the ability of the US to respond to threats is really quite remarkable. INstead this just became on more typical Gupshup circle jerk where one guy yells, "the US sucks" and all the lemming guppies dutifully nod their heads.
couldn't agree more
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
No, I think thats your view but if you substitue Jews and Christians there instead of Muslims
Muslims like you are a Disgrace to Islam
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Exactly correct, OG and Merc2k. The US can do no wrong, if we killed some Arabs, then we were right to do so. Doesn't matter if they were 5 year old or 50 years.
God Bless America.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
God Bless America.
Then why dont you blast Pakistani troops for their campaign in Balochistan and Waziristan?
Didnt they kill innocent civilians as well?
Or is that excused because they are muslims and Americans are not?
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Didnt they kill innocent civilians as well?
Or is that excused because they are muslims and Americans are not?
Muslims killing Muslims! Why should I be concerned. Muslims killing each other is good for America.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
And yet you once more back me up. Before I progress to that, however, your statement that “their officers had never fought a war” is not completely accurate. Only the junior officers had not; the senior officers of the US Army consisted almost entirely of decorated and battle-hardened veterans of World War 1. Even many office rs of Lt Colonel rank had served in World War 1.
As for the second point about how many soldiers in the North Africa campaign were not that well trained or experienced : that is a situation that is repeating itself today with National Guard deployments to Iraq. Some of the individuals accused of (and getting their wrists slapped for) war crimes in Iraq today also have not been in the military for long.
The example of what happened with some Americans and Arabs in Algeria with such troops 65 years ago is directly relevant to today. Silence about it, failure to teach about it, failure to learn from it has created a situation once more where some American soldiers treat Arabs in horrific ways.
By the way, I have not quoted it yet, but later when I quote Atkinson’s comments on the US Army’s poor justice to the perpetrators of such acts, you will find him pointing out that only a small percentage of American troops did such things. Then again, only a small percentage of American troops are doing them in Iraq. Then again, only a small percentage of Serbian troops were directly involved in crimes in
Yugoslavia; only a small percentage of Pakistani troops did crimes in East Pakistan … even only a small percentage of German men under arms did war crimes. Always, even only a small percentage is too much.
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Next quotation.
At a training camp in Algeria, soldiers were told they could fire on anyone "dressed in white and not properly responding to the password". Natives suspected of espionage or sabotage were usually handed over to the French for summary justice, but not always. "We made them dig their graves", one 1st Division soldier reported. "We lined them up and shot them." British commandos near Green Hill in the noth burned woggeries whose inhabitants were suspected of aiding the Germans. "It is not leasant to stand round blazing huts while women and children scream outside," one witness acknowledged.
After Kasserine, during a move from Sbiba towards Fondouk, "I saw men from another outfit shooting Arabs just to watch them jump and fall," Edward Boehm later recounted. Boehm was a lieutenant from Montana, with Battery C of the 185th Field Artillery. "I could just hear them yell and laugh each time and there was nothing I could do about it.... I saw them do it, like you're shooting gophers. I could hear them 'Wow I got one!' Those guys were murderers."
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
This lack of training hogwash is only good for press releases or congressional kangroo committees...the real reason for this sort of egregiously shameful behavior is the inherent racist, bigoted and superamicist psyche of the western peoples...in a society where racial hatred based on the color of the skin is part and parcel of the tradition, and where the inferior status of the darker races is a mantra taught from cradle to grave, these sort of behavior are always going to be there...
Its been more then sixty years, the world has moved on and has become a lot more enlightened and civilized, but the lack of training excuse keeps coming up to mask the utter failure of westerners to fore go their racist and superamicist ideology and mindset or coming to terms with the equitable interaction between races and cultures that are diametrically opposite....
Re: American and Arabs: A History Lesson
Its been more then sixty years, the world has moved on and has become a lot more enlightened and civilized, but the lack of training excuse keeps coming up to mask the utter failure of westerners to fore go their racist and superamicist ideology and mindset or coming to terms with the equitable interaction between races and cultures that are diametrically opposite....
Sorry buddy, but racism has shifted from Western Countries to Brown skinned countries in the Middle East and Central and South Asia
Isnt it the Arab countries who are doing nothing when Black africans are being murdered in the Sudan?
Isnt the fat Saudi Prince that go to Lebanon and Syria to look for fair skinned wives?
Isnt it the Arabs who imprison 3rd world laborers and call them Rafiks and treat them like dirt but give higher salary to white skinned employees from Europe and North America even though some Pakistani engineer is more qualified?
Wasnt it Racism that caused the sepereation of West Pakistan and East Pakistan as Bangladeshis according to people in West Pakistan were dark skinned, short and un-attractive looking people ?
Isnt there racism in Pakistani societies that people constantly look for fair skinned girls to marry their sons of too?
Isnt there racism that all Pakistanis want to migrate to countries which are white?