Amazing Quran !

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Ok I do not insist on sandwitch. But You also should not insist on big bang. Because all these verses you have quoted do not describe big bang. Science do not recognize the existence of heavens so joing of earth and heavens is meaningless.

And the “creation” of everything or living things…This concept has been taken from ancient Greek Philosophy. Refer the most ancient school of Greek Philosophy known as Ionion school of thought. Their prominent leader “Thalese”, first proposed that universe is made of water…!!

After some modifications, the same concept has been taken by your holy book.

And with reference to your previous post:

So you recognize the presence of (apparant, at least in your opinion) of contradictions in your holy book.

Now your main argument in support of your claim is that why huge number of ppl are converting to Islam…???..if it is really contradictory.

The only thing I shall say is that People who really think, who really do research work. Who are really the truth seekers … They are relatively very few in number as compared to those who do not use their mind and who are just the followers of one or the other religion.

If you are interested in research work in finding out the truth, you should consult the most ancient history of world religions. For example you can study the religion of ancient babylonea, whose main gods were sun god, madokh, and goddess ishtaar etc. Study their religious beliefs. Then see the reflections of those mythological beliefs in bible. And then see the reflection of bible on quran.

Those mythological stories were man made ofcourse. Bible which adopted those stories (Including the story of Hazrat Noah), was alsio man made. And your holy book which mostly adopted religious theories mostly from bible and “scientific theories” mostly from Greek sciences, was also man made.

Study the First ever civil law in the history of mankind i.e. Law written by Hammorabbi of babylonea. Quranic civil laws are merely a modified form of some of those laws.

Religion only was a stage in human society evolution. Now its only importance is its psychological implications. Religion is not from any god.
Nothing in any holy book is such a thing which is beyond the scope of abilities of human mind speculations. These are only your claims that we cannot know the depth etc. of the meanings of holy book due to limitations in our knowledge.

Such a claim can be made for any human written book also.

And also if we cannot know the depth of the meanings of holy book then it means that holy book is useless to us. Because we cannot know its true meanings. If we cannot know its meanings then what is the use of its reading…???

If we cannot know its meanings, then why we believe in that…???
Then in what u believe…??? Because u do not know the true meanings.
Are you the follower of doubtful meanings…???

If physical meanings are not the true meanings then what is the guarentee that some other (suitable) meanings are true…???

I know religion has very deep roots in human collective psychology. Religion cannot be eradicated from the world at all. The only need of the day is to Remove all the violent teachings of all the religions in order to form a better global society.

Also there is need to stop that false propoganda that all possible knowledge already has been mentioned in some holy book. Ordinary humans, now, know more that what was known to any god hundreds of years before. Such false beliefs are hurdels in the way of research work.

22

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

And with reference to your previous post:

So you recognize the presence of (apparant, at least in your opinion) of contradictions in your holy book.
[/quote]

There is no contradiction in holy Quran what so ever !
May be you were unable feel the impotence of some of the so called contradiction which I tried to point out !

Although some of the points are worth pondering and if someone wants to clear up his mind, then he can find out the reality by doing some research. Thus have a better chance of getting unbaised answer. It is better to learn. Chances are that a person will get more knowledge then he/she is looking for.

[quote]

If you are interested in research work in finding out the truth, you should consult the most ancient history of world religions. For example you can study the religion of ancient babylonea, whose main gods were sun god, madokh, and goddess ishtaar etc. Study their religious beliefs. Then see the reflections of those mythological beliefs in bible. And then see the reflection of bible on quran.

Those mythological stories were man made ofcourse. Bible which adopted those stories (Including the story of Hazrat Noah), was alsio man made. And your holy book which mostly adopted religious theories mostly from bible and "scientific theories" mostly from Greek sciences, was also man made.

Study the First ever civil law in the history of mankind i.e. Law written by Hammorabbi of babylonea. Quranic civil laws are merely a modified form of some of those laws.
[/quote]

Well you are going overboard by giving so much credit to a person who did not know how to read or write. You are saying that Muhammad(PBUH) had acquired the knowledge of Mythology, Astrology, Social sciences, cosmology, boilogy, Civil Law, criminal Law, Inheritence Law, Ethics, and psychology from different sources. He mastered these subjects so he was able to chose the right theories and challange the mankind to prove them wrong ?

New Catholic Encyclopedia

It is this very sort of thing - confronting people with facts - that had captured the attention of many non-Muslims. In fact, there exists a very interesting reference concerning this subject in the New Catholic Encyclopedia. In an article under the subject of the Qur'an, the Catholic Church states:

"Over the centuries, many theories have been offered as to the origin of the Qur'an... Today no sensible man accepts any of these theories!!"

Now here is the age-old Catholic Church, which has been around for so many centuries, denying these futile attempts to explain away the Qur'an.

Indeed, the Qur'an is a problem for the Catholic Church. It states that it is revelation, so they study it. Certainly, they would love to find proof that it is not, but they cannot. They cannot find a viable explanation. But at least they are honest in their research and do not accept the first unsubstantiated interpretation which comes along. The Church states that in fourteen centuries it has not yet been presented a sensible explanation. At least it admits that the Qur'an is not an easy subject to dismiss. Certainly, other people are much less honest.

23

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Same Source:

Earth is Spread Out Like a Carpet (Flat)

· Quran-15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

· Quran-78: 6-7: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist.

.The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
“And we have made the earth egg shaped”.
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

Here in this Verse, Allah Challenges People: Who Can Tell Whether the Conceived is Male or Female?

· Quran-31:34: Verily the knowledge of the Hour is With God (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He who knows what is in the wombs of mothers….

Who does not believe the fact that, actually mankind can predict very accurately (99.5%) when rain will fall and can predict (99.8%) the sex of the child inside a mother’s womb? Scientists also predict that, in the next five years weather predictions will be successfully correct almost 100%. Perhaps Allah could not imagine this.

It is true that many translations of this verse of the Glorious Qur’an say that only Allah knows the sex of the child in the mother’s womb. If you read the Arabic text of this verse, there is no Arabic word corresponding to the English word ‘sex’.

In fact the Qur’an says the knowledge of what is in the womb is with Allah alone. Many commentators have misunderstood it to mean only Allah knows the sex of the child in the womb, which is a mistake.

This verse does not refer to the sex of the child in the womb but it refers to, how the child in the mother’s womb will be. How will his nature be? Will he be good or evil? Will he go to heaven or hell? The complete knowledge of all things is with Allah alone. No scientist in the world, no matter how advanced his equipment, will ever be able to accurately determine the knowledge of these things about the child in the mother’s womb.

24

Brother where does it specifically say that he did one thing and then the other? this is merely a misunderstanding…I’ll give a simple example to u…If i say i cooked the whole dinner in 5 hrs. It took me 2 hrs to make the curry. I made the rice in 1 hour. The cake took 30 mins to prepare and another 1 hr for baking and dressing. The kebabs took 2 hrs to prepare and fry.

Now as ur so good in maths u’ll see that the total comes to

2(curry) +1 (rice) + 1.5 (cake) + 2(kebabs) = 6.5 hrs

I could have easily managed making 2 things at the same time, its perfectly possible i’m sure u’ll agree.
Need i say more?

25

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Angel_4_Ever: *

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Same Source:

Earth is Spread Out Like a Carpet (Flat)

· Quran-15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

· Quran-78: 6-7: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist.

Just to add a little more not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

26

You can see similar mistakes in the verses: Quran-4:11, 4:12, and 4: 176 in inheritance law. In these verses one can see the total property after adding all distributed parts adds up more than the available property, i.e., the totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical error, is it not?

Let us examine the verses i.e. Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12:

"Allah (swt) (thus) directs you as regards your children’s(inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half.

For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise."

"In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts." [Al-Qur’an 4:11-12]

Islam explains the law of inheritance in great detail. The broad and basic outline is given in the Qur’an and the minute details are given in the Ahadith i.e. the tradition and sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).

A person can spend his full life only on the research of the Islamic law of inheritance with its various permutations and combinations. So how can one expect to know the law only by superficially reading two verses of the Qur’an without knowing the criteria?

It is similar to a person who wants to solve a mathematical equation but does not know the basic rule of mathematics, i.e. BODMAS which says that in a mathematical equation, irrespective of which mathematical sign appears first, you will first solve BODMAS: 1st (BO) Brackets Off, 2nd (D) Division, 3rd (M) Multiplication, 4th (A) Addition and 5th (S) Subtraction. If someone does not know mathematics and first does multiplication then subtraction, then brackets off, then division and finally addition, the answer that he will obtain is bound to be wrong.

Similarly, when the Qur’an mentions the law of inheritance in Surah Nisa chapter 4 verses 11 and 12, even though the children’s share is mentioned first and then that of the parents and spouses, according to the law of inheritance in Islam after paying off the debts and liabilities first, the share is given to the spouses and the parents depending on whether the deceased has left children or not, and whatever portion of wealth is remaining is divided between the sons and the daughters according to their respective shares.

So where does the question arise of the total coming to more than one?

The above is an extraction from a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik and i hope this helps in clearing the confusion regarding the issue of inheritance.
What i fail to understand is that why people take up small things and without getting further details or knowledge or even trying to understand the issue start discussing and arguing over them.

If u have any problems or any confusions concerning the religion of Islam then instead of insulting and using bad words u can discuss anything u want choosing better words.....All i can say is May Allah guide u and forgive u. (Ameen)

Quran Chapter 109: Al-Kafiroon

''Say: O unbelievers! I do not serve that which you serve, Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve, Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion. ''

27

Well done for taking some time and finding answer :k:

Islam teaches us to think re-think and use reasoning to find answers. There is nothing wrong in asking questions. It helps one to clear up mind.

The poster actually knew that these contradiction are week in substance, But irony is that many of the muslims dont know the answers.
May Allah guide us. ameen

28

Code_Red:

[QUOTE]
There is no contradiction in holy Quran what so ever !
May be you were unable feel the impotence of some of the so called contradiction which I tried to point out !

Although some of the points are worth pondering and if someone wants to clear up his mind, then he can find out the reality by doing some research. Thus have a better chance of getting unbaised answer. It is better to learn. Chances are that a person will get more knowledge then he/she is looking for.
[/QUOTE]

You have to be honest, then you will be able to see so many contradictions and un-scientific aspacts of your holy book.

[QUOTE]
Well you are going overboard by giving so much credit to a person who did not know how to read or write. You are saying that Muhammad(PBUH) had acquired the knowledge of Mythology, Astrology, Social sciences, cosmology, boilogy, Civil Law, criminal Law, Inheritence Law, Ethics, and psychology from different sources. He mastered these subjects so he was able to chose the right theories and challange the mankind to prove them wrong ?
[/QUOTE]

What credit I am giving...??? I am dis-crediting..!! Holy book contains all the wrong information that an un-edjucated mind can offer.

[QUOTE]
New Catholic Encyclopedia

It is this very sort of thing - confronting people with facts - that had captured the attention of many non-Muslims. In fact, there exists a very interesting reference concerning this subject in the New Catholic Encyclopedia. In an article under the subject of the Qur'an, the Catholic Church states:

"Over the centuries, many theories have been offered as to the origin of the Qur'an... Today no sensible man accepts any of these theories!!"

Now here is the age-old Catholic Church, which has been around for so many centuries, denying these futile attempts to explain away the Qur'an.

Indeed, the Qur'an is a problem for the Catholic Church. It states that it is revelation, so they study it. Certainly, they would love to find proof that it is not, but they cannot. They cannot find a viable explanation. But at least they are honest in their research and do not accept the first unsubstantiated interpretation which comes along. The Church states that in fourteen centuries it has not yet been presented a sensible explanation. At least it admits that the Qur'an is not an easy subject to dismiss. Certainly, other people are much less honest.
[/QUOTE]

I am not interested in the problems of any church. They are also contradictory and un-scientific.

29

I would love to read the whole thread but got less time. But would like to say.... basic_force, get a life.

30

Mr. Angel_for_ever,

I think it is better to discuss these issues one by one. I only have copy pasted an article which has been written by a muslim. I also can see some points are weak. I only shall discuss the strong points one by one.

[quote]
Sun and Moon Rotates:

· Quran-31: 29: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the Sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

· Quran-21: 33: It is He who created the Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them swim (float) along in its own course.

Ayats mentioned above could be found over and over again and again in almost every page of the Quran. This is because Allah, standing in the open Arab desert, saw very well that every morning the SUN was rising from the east and gradually (at the appointed time) setting to the west, and as a result, day and night follow. Allah actually shared this misconception (the Sun moving) of pre-historic people. Every time Allah speaks of the Sun & Moon, he referred to Day & Night, as if it is due to the Sun’s movement that day and night follows. But surprisingly, all the hypocritical Mullahs give false credit to Allah by saying: Look, the Quran described the Sun’s movement 1400 years ago, which modern science only found out now. In the real world, the Sun takes 225 million years to make just one complete circle through the galaxy. And obviously this movement of the Sun has nothing to do with DAY & NIGHT of the earth. Actually, the Sun is stationary for the earth in a real sense, because the Earth is stuck in the giant gravitational force of the Sun. The Earth also moves along with the Sun wherever it goes, just the way that we are stuck to the Earth’s gravitational force and do not feel Earth’s movement at all. Why then, was Allah referring to the Sun’s movement again and again? I have already mentioned above, why Allah was mistaken about the Sun’s movements. Now dishonest Mullahs are claiming that this is science here. I wonder why Allah has to mention about the Sun’s 225 million year journey to tell about day and night? What does the Sun’s movement have to do with the day and night?
[/quote]

So the starting point is that your holy book associates coming of day/night process with the movement of sun and moon.

1- The point is valid that movement of sun or moon is nothing to do with the day night process of earth.

2- In fact sun is stationary with respect to earth. Your holy book give us (old and out-dated) information that it is moving due to witch day/ night occur in earth.

3- The only movement of sun - which takes some 225 million years around the center of glaxy has infact nothing to do with day/ night process of the earth. Then why your holy book again and again associates the movement of sun with the day night process of the earth.

4- Sun and moon are very easily observable to any un-edjucated person that they are floating in a course and for fixed time. So what special information your holy book is offering in that. Even the most ancient civilization of the earth i.e. people of ancient summerian civilization already had made correct estimates of "earth's" movement around the sun and they called that period to be a year. Then they divided that period (i.e. a year into months, weeks and number of days etc.) So those ancient summerian people who were the worshippers of sun god, mardokh god and goddess ishtaar etc. they happened to be more accurate and precise in determining the movements of "heavenly" bodies. So what is the importance of your book's inaccurate and misleading information when already better information was available.

5- You holy book is completely un-aware about the spin movement of the earth. Your holy book never have associated that spin movement with the day/ night process. But always have make wrong association of sun's movement with the day/ night process.

6- Your holy book is un-aware that in fact sun is stationary with respect to earth. That is why it always has described the movement of sun but never has clarified that this "movement" is not in fact with respect to earth.

7- Your holy book is un-aware that sun's movement is in fact around the "glaxy" and not around the earth. That is why the movements of sun and moon are described jointly as if they were moving in a same orbit.

8- Your holy book is un-aware about the exact day/ night process of the earth because it do not know the spin movement of the earth.

I only require point wise answers to above points. And I assure you that if you ppl seem to be honest in giving correct answars to these point, you will see positive response from my side also.

31

Brother Basic force, You asked me to give u a point wise aswer to your questions. Though i am no scholar, but from whatever little that i know or have read, i have tried using it to find the answers that clarify what the Holy Quran has to say pertaining to the matter under discussion. The points that u had put forward were a bit mixed up and a bit confusing for me...so i have put up the answers in a manner which i hope will be helpful for u.

• For a long time philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it.

• In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it. In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’.

• In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day. After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth.

• Consider the following Qur’anic verse:
**
“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.”
[Al-Qur’an 21:33] **

• The Arabic word used in the above verse is *yasbahoon *. This word is derived from the word *sabaha *. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body.

• If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space.

• Most school textbooks have now incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis.

**
• “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).”
[Al-Qur’an 36:40]

• This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.
**

• The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.

• The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

There are some other related topics, like the fact that the Moon borrows light from the Sun and reflects it while the Sun generates light of its own
etc. If u want i can put up some material for u to read on these topics.

32

angels4ever thaks alot for such a knowledgable posts. :k:
Quran also teaches us to explore your world according to quran’s knowledge.But it’s irony for us that most of us dont even bother to think about it, and not even think to get the real knowledge of arabic and understand what quraan says.
May Allah guide us. ameen

33

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Code_Red:

What credit I am giving...??? I am dis-crediting..!! Holy book contains all the wrong information that an un-educated mind can offer.
[/quote]

You change your stance very rapidly. Let me remind you, According to you, quran has adopted different concept, theories and laws from ancient civilizations with certain modifications:

[quote]

--creation" of everything or living things.....This concept has been taken from ancient Greek Philosophy. Refer the most ancient school of Greek Philosophy known as Ionion school of thought. Their prominent leader "Thalese", first proposed that universe is made of water

--Concept of tinest particle already came in the mind of Democretus

--Holy book's embryology is not more than the ancient Greek Embryology

--Study the First ever civil law in the history of mankind i.e. Law written by Hammorabbi of babylonea. Quranic civil laws are merely a modified form of some of those laws.

[/quote]

Now how an un-educated man knew all these ?

Your frustration is understandable, That quranic claims were true 1400 years ago and they are proved now and they will hold good even after 1000 years. Whether it be Cosmology, embriology or physics. No matter how much you try to distort the meaning of Quranic ayaat, They are here to stay and will never change.

[Quote]

**· Quran-31: 29: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the Sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

· Quran-21: 33: It is He who created the Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them swim (float) along in its own course.**
[/quote]

There are no discrepencies in these verses of holy quran. Your objection is that they were according to understanding of people at that time. Now the Muslims use these verses to propagate the Alignment of scientific discorveries to with these verses.

Well that is the beauty of Quran that it never gets old. People will continue to find its verses in line with their current sound knowledge and understanding.

34

Lets see some more examles :-

[Quran:004.056 ]
Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power,
Wise.

Today we know that pain sensors are located just bellow the skin. Thats why a person feels pain when the needle of injection passes through skin not after that.

source

Light touch and deep pressure

Most of your touch receptors sit close to your skin’s surface. Some of them, however, are located further down. Receptors such as your Paccinian corpuscules sense pressure and vibration changes deep in your skin.

Pain and temperature

Your skin receptors don’t only respond to touch. They also register pain as well as warmth and cold. Your pain receptors are the most numerous. Every square centimetre of your skin contains around 200 pain receptors but only 15 receptors for pressure, 6 for cold and 1 for warmth.

[Quran:024.040 ]
Or (the Unbelievers’ state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see itor any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!

Muhammad (pbuh) was never been to oceans in his life, And the fact revealed in the above verse can only be experienced by a deep see diver. At that time nobody could have dived so deep in ocean to know the depths of darkness deep sea !

Now you can always come up with weird logic that romans already knew that fact with their vast experience of life at sea. But then again you will be walking in circles by trying to prove a point by some logic and nullifying your logic with your next statement.

35

Angel_4_Ever:

[QUOTE]
Brother Basic force, You asked me to give u a point wise aswer to your questions. Though i am no scholar, but from whatever little that i know or have read, i have tried using it to find the answers that clarify what the Holy Quran has to say pertaining to the matter under discussion. The points that u had put forward were a bit mixed up and a bit confusing for me...so i have put up the answers in a manner which i hope will be helpful for u.

• For a long time philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it.

• In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it. In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’.

• In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day. After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth.

• Consider the following Qur’anic verse:
**
“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.”
[Al-Qur’an 21:33] **

• The Arabic word used in the above verse is *yasbahoon *. This word is derived from the word *sabaha *. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body.

• If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space.

• Most school textbooks have now incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis.

[/quote]

I think the arabic happen to be a very flexible language for all your manupulations. Whenever western people shall discover new scientific facts, you shall find new meanings of the old words of your holy book. Every sort of new scientific discoveries not only shall change the meanings of your holy book but also shall result in a number of brackets in your holy book just like the following;

“It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).”
[Al-Qur’an 36:40]

I told you that you shall see positive response from my side if you happened to be honest in giving me the point wise answers.

I do not believe in even the original wordings of your holy book and you are trying to convince me with translations supported by so many brackets....!!!!

“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.”
[Al-Qur’an 21:33]

And Ok even if I accept that your book also mention spin motion of sun and moon (which is in fact not mentioned) then so what....????

Again even in this verse, day/ night process are mentioned in association with (spin or orbital whatever you choose) movement of sun and moon.

And what you have proved......???

You only have proved (only for your ownself, offcourse) that sun or moon also have spin motion as per your book.

But tell me have you really proved that day/ night process of earth has any relation with (spin or orbital, whatever you like) movent of sun and moon.......?????

If you are really honest, then you should accept that day/ night process has the relationship with the spin motion of EARTH and it has nothing to do with any kind of motion of SUN or MOON. So then what is positive even if you prove the spin motion of sun....??? You not only has to prove spin motion of earth but also has to show that spin motion of earth itself is responsible for its own day/ night process. So in doing so, obviously you have to reject those verses which talk of movement of sun and moon in relationship with day/ night process of earth.

You yourself has copy/ pasted the following theory of Copernicus;

"Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it."

If sun is motionless then why your holy book time and again talk of its motion....????

And about whatever motion of sun is described by your book, after all it has no valid relationship with the day/ night process ofearth. But your holy book is strict that day/ night process of earth is linked to movement of sun or moon.

[quote]
**
• “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).”
[Al-Qur’an 36:40]

• This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.
**

• The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.

• The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

There are some other related topics, like the fact that the Moon borrows light from the Sun and reflects it while the Sun generates light of its own
etc. If u want i can put up some material for u to read on these topics.

[/QUOTE]

I already told you that every new scientific discovery shall result in a considerable number of brackets in your holy book. Also you shall know the previously un-known meanings of your holy book.

Whatever you have explained, tell me where it is written in the original verse.....?????

Your holy book do not even know the exact day night process of earth then how it knows other more difficult things....???? Surely it knows nothing. All are your own optimistic interpretations and false propogandas only.

Do not make me think that muslims not only are un-scientific but are also dishonest in interpreting science and their own holy book.

36

sceintists are unbiased dont let relgious bias interfere with research.
let say something in the cow/pig blood contains some soubstance that cures certain diseases what
would relgious people will say?

37

Code_Red:

[QUOTE]
You change your stance very rapidly. Let me remind you, According to you, quran has adopted different concept, theories and laws from ancient civilizations with certain modifications:

Now how an un-educated man knew all these ?

[/quote]

Yes I said that. I also changed my stance so that you should come to the the position where you should be able to understand something.

If you are asking me the question i.e. "Now how an un-edjucated man knew all these", It means that you have accepted that whatever is written in holy book, although that was already known to edjucated humanity but how it was known to an un-edjucated person..?? With that assumption in mind that an un-edjucated person cannot describe ancient sciences, you conclude that those already known sciences were revealed by god to that un-edjucated person.

For your kind attention it is proven fact that your un-edjucated holy prophet had relationships with great scholar of his time, and he was the cousin of your prophet's first wife. It is also a proven fact that all the claimed revealations took their start AFTER this first marriage.

[quote]
Your frustration is understandable, That quranic claims were true 1400 years ago and they are proved now and they will hold good even after 1000 years. Whether it be Cosmology, embriology or physics. No matter how much you try to distort the meaning of Quranic ayaat, They are here to stay and will never change.

There are no discrepencies in these verses of holy quran. Your objection is that they were according to understanding of people at that time. Now the Muslims use these verses to propagate the Alignment of scientific discorveries to with these verses.

Well that is the beauty of Quran that it never gets old. People will continue to find its verses in line with their current sound knowledge and understanding.
[/QUOTE]

Ok everything is true in your holy book .... but only for those dishonest ppl who insist on that even after knowing so many discrepencies/ contradictions and un-scientific aspacts of their holy book.

Holy book is an old book. It was for those ppl who lived some 1400 years back. There is no guidence for present day humanity.

38

Code_Red:

I can only smile on such minor scientific theories. The verse you quoted is the description of your hell. First of all you need to prove the existence of such a hell. And whatever is described is only a claim/ speculation.

Even if your holy book contains some right information, it dose not mean that the author of holy book actually knew about the fact untill and unless that information is given with proper argumentation (i.e. proper reasons are given) and supporting proof is also given.

Your holy book only contain claims. No reasons are provided. No proof is provided. These claims are nothing but speculations that may or may not be true.

Also note that ok skin cell may contain sense receptors But pain is not felt in receptors. Feeling of pain occurs inside brain.

That may be a mere speculation or it may be true that since ancient romans had vast experience of Oceans…

The things I am telling are not difficult to happen. But to conclude from such minor scientific facts that a person who knows these (minor scientific facts) must have been told by god … It means god is not more able than our present day science students.

39

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Code_Red:

For your kind attention it is proven fact that your un-edjucated holy prophet had relationships with great scholar of his time, and he was the cousin of your prophet's first wife. It is also a proven fact that all the claimed revealations took their start AFTER this first marriage.

[/quote]

In Makkah there were only a few Christians of humble social and intellectual status, being either slaves or petty retailers and mostly immigrants. Only one or two original inhabitants of Makkah such as Uthman ibn al Huwairith and Waraqah ibn Nawfal had turned Christians, the former out of personal or political considerations, and the latter as a result of his search for better faith.

**
The allegation that the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) received instruction from Waraqa ibn Nawfal on Christianity is rejected on the ground that, if this information is true, then the Quraishis would have made a very strong point and issue about it. If some of the Christians and Jews of Makkah have provided information about former religions, they would not have faith in the Prophet's mission and leadership to become Muslims in the first place**

[quote]

Holy book is an old book. It was for those ppl who lived some 1400 years back. There is no guidence for present day humanity.
[/QUOTE]

**
This is the very same thing which is beyond the comprehension of non-muslim that how an ancient book is so positively precise and confident in its claims **

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

The things I am telling are not difficult to happen. *But to conclude from such minor scientific facts that a person who knows these (minor scientific facts) must have been told by god .... It means god is not more able than our present day science students. *
[/QUOTE]

That is the problem !!!!

If it is not told by God then what is the source of information ??

Your explanation about the source is not tangible for a rational mind.

If these are small scientific facts for you that it does not mean that they are not important. The Quran is not only PhD, professors or doctors, it is for everyone. Thats why it uses simplest common words and phrases so it will be easier to understand.

Now take an example:-
**
If a science teacher teaches a primary class. Then after some years one of the students becomes a science graduate and comes back, says to teacher, "hey man what you tuaght me in your class was kids stuff, actuall knowledge I got from university".**

Is it means that what is tuaght at primary level is null and void ?. No Rather it is essential building block for advancement in future studies