Do you believe in this statement?
A person attacks America because America is attacking his country, is that fair to you?
(putting aside Islamic principles because most of us pick and chose anyway)
Do you believe in this statement?
A person attacks America because America is attacking his country, is that fair to you?
(putting aside Islamic principles because most of us pick and chose anyway)
Absolutely, its totally fair to me. But, one should be prepared for consequences after that.
Such as, People from that country can be profiled or have to go through extra security check at the airport.
Re: All's fair in War
War is never fair. To anyone.
But it doesnt have to be completely senseless. When people learn how to accomplish their goals in a contructive manner, there will be no need for the senseless type of warfare that we see today (planeloads of innocent people being crashed into buildings filled with more innocent people, suicide bombers blowing themselves up in markets filled with mothers and their children shopping for their dinners)....exactly what can be accomplished with these tactics? It breeds hatred and mistrust.
When people educate themselves and speak reasonably, when they elevate themselves to positions of power and then fight their good fight in a good way...THATS when positive results are obtained.
Re: All's fair in War
War and love are never fair.
There is always a winner and a loser.
However if someone hits me i'll hit back.... naturally, same for war.
Re: All's fair in War
^ Exactly . War and Love are a chance game . Nothing is fair , and so are the consequences .
Re: All's fair in War
Life isn't fair either. LOL
Re: All's fair in War
You know what though? I think we can all pretty much agree that war isnt fair. But that doesnt really matter. What DOES matter is strategy. Actually, in war thats ALL that matters.
Lets take for example the most recent event. We have this Faisal Shahzad who made a pathetically inept attempt to kill theatre-going families in Times Square. What did he accomplish? He effectively made his wife a widow and his two small children will grow up without a dad. He shamed his entire family, who forever more will be linked to his waste of a life. He was a successful businessman who ruined his family out due to his feelings that Muslims are persecuted. In all, he made things worse.
What if....instead of trying to blow up innocent people, he went out in his neighborhood and showed his neighbors that Muslims are good people? If he became involved in local government and ran for office? You'd really be surprised at how interested and accepting people would be. And how easy it is to become involved and to influence the decisions that are made. If he doesnt like foreign policy, he'd be able to voice his objections and actually be heard.
I am a very shy person and absolutely have huge problems talking to a crowd. Yet, by becoming involved inthe parent-teacher association inour school district, I've been amazed quite a number of times at how much my voice matters. There have been school policies that were changed once I spoke my mind about them. Local politics is no different and once involved at the local level, the next logical step is national.
Muslims by tradition have a dislike of Jewish people. Yet...look at their strategy. Get educated and then dedicate yourself and your family and friends to become involved in media, politics and business. Their strategy WORKS yeah?
Strategy is all.
Re: All's fair in War
you cant kill randomly based on what you see another's country as doing. for all you know the person you kill might have the same opinions as you. for all you know you might be killed by another person annoyed because of american or canadian foreign policies.
Good to see some people speaking their minds. :k:
Carpet bombs, drone attacks, hellfire missiles, are these all constructive methods to you? Believe me if those people had these capabilities, we’d be living in camps just like those in Pakistan/Afghanistan/Iraq. Atleast take some responsibility as an American, America is the root cause for all this.
Dr. Ron Paul says:
“Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we’ve been * over there*- we’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We’ve been in the Middle East - I think Reagan was right. We don’t understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. So right now we’re building an embassy in Iraq that’s bigger than the Vatican. We’re building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us.”
I agree strategy is all so we shouldn’t cry when they hit us back the same way we hit them. Innocents on their side far outnumber the innocent on our side by umm a huge huge margin. Not saying numbers matter. I believe 1 innocent life is the same as 1 million.
School politics are not world politics, nobody is going to listen. What has the American public accomplished overseas since WW2? Nothing but destruction, mass murders, rapes and breeding more hatred.
One guy comes along with a childish bomb and you all go nuts.
Mamaof3, this is a general statement so don’t take it personally.
Aaah, so it’s ok to kill people using unmanned aircraft right? Please remind me, wasn’t it you who supports drone attacks? I guess the life of a “tribal”(as some call them) are not worth anything? 
all i can do is link to my post in the poll.
Re: All's fair in War
Cricket, you missed the main point I was trying to make I think....
School politics is not world politics for sure...but getting involved and makiing your voice heard DOES make a difference. A surprisingly huge one. This times square idiot, before he went bonkers, would have found a warm welcome in the local political parties - bcause it looks GREAT for them to have a respectable, successful Muslim businessman in their midst. He'd be targeted for local office and from there, be able to launch into national politics. WOuldnt that be better than the pathetic attempt he made? And if he were successful, he'd have accomplished evenmore feelings of mistrust in the Muslim population. He took the WRONG road, followed a bad strategy and accomplished nothing except shame for his family. This, from a man who actually had a really great chance at making a wonderful, positive difference.
Re: All's fair in War
it sounds more than a little entitled and patronizing Mamaof3. Americans sitting back waiting for Muslims to prove something by being 'respectable' and 'successful'. a bit like Biden's remarks about Obama early in the '08 campaign as it being refreshing to see an articulate black presidential candidate.
Do you believe in this statement?
A person attacks America because America is attacking his country, is that fair to you?
(putting aside Islamic principles because most of us pick and chose anyway)
indeed its fair. but killing innocent people should never be an option.
if America....err american govt is doing something, and that something is wrong, and you also believe that they are wrong. then instead of following their footsteps and do the same wrong deed and retaliate with the same tactics...then not only you lack genuineness, but also creativity and no wonder you are being crushed by the american.
there are other ways to counterattack....such as like Japan and China.
show your wonders and skills with the power of knowledge, education, invention and rational.
ps. what americans govt is doing, they will face its consequences if not in this world then afterlife, and what you will do you will also face its consequences, if not in this world than afterlife. so what should worries you most is your action, so worry about them...cuz if you hurt any innocent....you will face its consequences, if not in this world than afterlife.
I apologize for my mistake.
Mamaof3, being successful in the eyes of the few means to bow down to same nationalistic idealogy that is the root cause of death and destruction in this world. Being involved in politics is one thing but setting foreign policies will only be a dream for upright individuals, if they stand up they’ll get shot. This is reality no matter how much sugarcoating goes on.
This thread is not about some random guy named Faisal Shahzad (I’m not sympathizing in anyway), this is about the fundamentals. What gives Americans the right to ask others to rectify themselves? When the Americans the ones who gave birth to these “terrorists” and hate.
I agree, an innocent life should not be taken no matter what. But in war, as they say it just so happens “casualties” are bound to happen.
*Note: I said in my opening post, let’s not go into Islamic principles since we ourselves love to pick and chose. *
Note2: When I say “Americans”, I mean the government/establishment ofcourse but I also mean the American citizens who are ignorant of the ground realities and their wrong.
I consider it to be fair that any individual or group that makes itself identifiable as a combatant (through either uniform, or public bearing of arms, or public acts of logistical support to other combatants meeting this criteria) is entitled to wage war.
Re: All's fair in War
^ that !
Re: All's fair in War
Cricket, following what you've said...I'd like to ask your take on these drone attacks. Intelligence is gathered, theres supposedly a meeting of Taliban-types and drones drop bombs. Intel was wrong and drones instead killed a village gathering for a wedding. Tragic, sad and WRONG for sure.
BUT...to answer this wrong...do you think the best strategy is suicide bombings in marketplaces? Or slamming planes into buildings? This may provide a little bit of a sense of vengeance but also serves to foster more of the same from BOTH sides so the bloodshed is continued.
If you live in USA, really you should attend a meeting of your local political parties. If you're an upstanding and educated person,they'll be all over you to get involved. And you'd be surprised at how many Americans feel almost the same about the war in Afghanistan....but they want these out-of-control Mullahs and taliban types to CEASE. I was called condescending or something like that above but this is something I feel very strongly about. When American Muslims stand tall, be proud and SHOW the rest of the country what a true Muslim really is then things will start to turn around.
Re: All's fair in War
cp, i was thinking about this concept yesterday myself because the ttp seemed to have decided to faf up pakistani interests worldwide. as most pakistani overseas support the elimination of them, i dont think we as a community have a right to object.
personally, i ruled out 'all is fair in love' as false very quickly, and i dont believe all is fair in war either because i'd like to think i could give some compassion to the opposition even in worst case scenario, but im not personally in a state of war or trying to defend the existence of my community.
mumof3: after all the womens magazine type nice messages you are trying to convey, islam afaik doesnt allow the sacrifice of fellow muslims. and indeed if you believe in this policy afaik quranpak says you are a jew or christian, ie believer of God but rejecter of Quranpak and Muhammad RassoolAllah sallallahu alaihi wassalam. obviously its very simple, islam protects muslims.
Re: All's fair in War
If Islaam doesnt allow the sacrifice of fellow Muslims, then what the heck is going on over in Pak with suicide bombers blowing up marketplaces due to NWFP being renamed? And Swat...what a very sad story.
There surely are bin-Laden types who are more than happy to live in caves and perpetuate hatred. And there are others who take a more proactive approacch,educate themselves, become involved and promote the best interests of their homeland in a positive way.
Cricket, following what you've said...I'd like to ask your take on these drone attacks. Intelligence is gathered, theres supposedly a meeting of Taliban-types and drones drop bombs. Intel was wrong and drones instead killed a village gathering for a wedding. Tragic, sad and WRONG for sure.
I wish it was that simple, I wish it was so simple as CNN says, I wish I only wish.
Sorry but having a success rate of only 3% in killing the "militants" and killing 1200+ civilians doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. I don't care what the governments (that have no credibility) say, they can project, draw up, porivde "facts" whatever, the fact remains, innocents are being killed without any reason.
BUT...to answer this wrong...do you think the best strategy is suicide bombings in marketplaces? Or slamming planes into buildings? This may provide a little bit of a sense of vengeance but also serves to foster more of the same from BOTH sides so the bloodshed is continued.
1) I never support suicide bombings on civilians. On the battlefield it's a different issue; army vs "army".
2) Slamming planes into building is a disgusting act. But you should pressure your government on revealing the truth. They invade a country because they believe Osama was behind it, yet no evidence. I wonder why..
[personally, 9/11 theory is bunch bullocks to me, ie: false flag]
On that note, I'd like to say those people who are taking revenge have no other means to take it other than with guerrilla tactics. I ask you this, if they were capable of having an army, would you call it fair then if they attacked USA?