from one ahmadi FRIEND - (btw, who does understand what i, RC Hareem have to say on Ahmadia Issues) InshaAllah she ll come thru, however , she told me thatthey dont even go to hajj to perform it, and instead they go on this some other pilgrimiage, i cant remember where but she said, there is no mention of hajj according to them.
but hey isnt hajj one of the 5 major pillars and if one is neglected. what does that make you ?
they go for thier haj to RABWA ..where they have a graveyard called heaven and a graveyard for ahmdis who are destined for hell(they have a hotline withAllah) depends on how much wealth is donated to ahmdi religion
What school of thought will Imam Mehdi follow? Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, etc.? Will he believe in the 12 Imams? Will he accept Hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman (RA) as the Khulafa? If not, then the Shia will reject him right away. And where exactly will he appear? If he appears in a Shia dominated territory and refuses to follow the Shia school of thought, then he'd be killed right away. If he appears in a Sunni dominated area and doesn't accept the first three Khulafa, then he'd be killed right away. And wasn't there a man in Makkah who claimed to be a Mehdi in the seventies/eighties but was immediately killed?
Imam Mehdi will be found in kabba(ppl will be looking for him ) and he will not follow any sect but he will be the follower of Quran and Sunnah. and REAL mehdi will not be killed....you think Prophet Mohammad's prophecy will not fulfill.....shame on you.
then he will fight........in JIHAD>>>>>
oooooo does that scare you ....the word JIhad .....where you have to fight and give your life fighting in ALLAH's way. :)
and ppl like you would keep wondering which sect will be followed by whom and why
Not for everyone dear, only for Muslims and they are:
The 'Five Pillars' of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:
Shahada - Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
Salat - Establishment of the daily prayers;
Zakah - Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
Sawm - Self-purification through fasting; and
Haj - The pilgrimage to Mecca (k'aba) for those who are able.
Where do Ahmadis go for Haj ? if they go to Mecca, do they honestly declare in advance that they belong to Jammat-e-Ahmadiya ?
RC
All these 5 pillars are followed by Ahmadis. Let Allah be the judge , please refrain from doing shirk and indirectly calling yourself Allah.
Where do ahmadis go for Hajj ?.. where ever k'aaba is.. And I believe its in the holy city of Makkah in KSA.
Do they honestly declare that they belong to jamaat e ahmadiyya?.. Theres no need to, if you are living outside Pakistan. There is no column of religion in other countries passport. Even if ahmadis residing in Pakistan are to write Muslim in the religion forum, theres some other conditions which require one to prove his/her claim of being Muslim.. one of them which is to consider Hazrat mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS as an imposter nabi (nauzubillah).. and for this reason, ahmadis hesitate to write themselves as Muslims, but rather Ahmadi.
The only reason of Ahmadis going to Makkah is to perform Hajj as it is fardh for anyone who is able to. They perform all the rituals as any other Muslims would perform while performing hajj.
Imam Mehdi will be found in kabba(ppl will be looking for him ) and he will not follow any sect but he will be the follower of Quran and Sunnah. and REAL mehdi will not be killed....you think Prophet Mohammad's prophecy will not fulfill.....shame on you.
then he will fight........in JIHAD>>>>>
oooooo does that scare you ....the word JIhad .....where you have to fight and give your life fighting in ALLAH's way. :)
and ppl like you would keep wondering which sect will be followed by whom and why
interesting how you say something and not keep in mind jamaat e ahmadiyya point of view. When we say Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a follower of Quran and sunnah, He is an imposter, while the same belief you hold is the same. Trust me.. your beliefs are very very contradicting.
Reason of brahmachari99 mentioning about the person who claimed to be mahdi was that He WAD KILLED. Hence, not what He claimed. A true claimant will NOT be killed , just like what you're saying.
He will fight jihaad.. yet the only thing that comes in your mind is to give your life in the way of Allah?.. to kill each other?..
PS: If He will only be following quran and sunnah, how will one recognize him , without him claiming?.. how will he claim without getting revelation from Allah might himself?.. What if the person you think is the mahdi says himself that he is not the one?.. and yet be following quran and sunnah?..
interesting how you say something and not keep in mind jamaat e ahmadiyya point of view. When we say Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a follower of Quran and sunnah, He is an imposter, while the same belief you hold is the same. Trust me.. your beliefs are very very contradicting.
Reason of brahmachari99 mentioning about the person who claimed to be mahdi was that He WAD KILLED. Hence, not what He claimed. A true claimant will NOT be killed , just like what you're saying.
He will fight jihaad.. yet the only thing that comes in your mind is to give your life in the way of Allah?.. to kill each other?..
PS: If He will only be following quran and sunnah, how will one recognize him , without him claiming?.. how will he claim without getting revelation from Allah might himself?.. What if the person you think is the mahdi says himself that he is not the one?.. and yet be following quran and sunnah?..
yes that is the sign of true mehdi that he will not claim to be mehdi.....he will be convinced by a council of ppl who will recognize him. he will be hesitant and unwilling at first but then he will rise to the occassion by Allah's grace.
if i say mehdi will be a follower of quran and sunnah and i say mgaq was a lair and no more ...you call it contrdiction. why he was the only one ever who was following Quran( which i do not believe)
if a person was killed in saudia(your saying) is saudia devoid of pious ppl now????
you wait and i wait. we will know the truth. but mirza was no mehdi.
oh yes Jihad does mean All kind of Jihad.....it includes fighting physically also. you think jihad with pen is the only jihad bcz thats what americans want and u oblige. jihad has many form and fighting and killin kaffir if one of the way. only brave of heart and strong in faith will fight.
yesh thas the place that she mentioned to me, Rabwa, i beleive its, in pakistan , i ve heard about that place whilst i was there. and what you said above abaout his (mirza)z final moments are also quoted in another book by pir Mehr Ali Shah RA who was around at the time of Mirza, the book is called Saif e Chichtiyan. Like Mirza said, its a wrath from Allah, He Got that, if he was who he claimed to be, then why was he in such pain even in his final moments, where as a true Prophet ie. Muhammad SAW for example, spoke even till HIs final breath and asked for forgivenes for his Ummah, where as Mirza cudnt even spk
anyways, For some reason, my posts are dissapearing from another religious thread, cos am spking whats right , so well you and i know what the reality is.
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Where in any of my posts did you read anything to come up with this insane conclusion?
I am not Mirza saab to claim such a thing Chan Ji.
Allah sends his wrath, LAANAT, and AZAAB to one who claims that, as it was witnessed by people close to Mirza saab during his last few days. As aramis09 detailed this in previous post, Mirza saab died in his own filth, his death bed had become bathroom toilet due to the nature of his illness (CHOLERA). Allah didn't allow him to say KALIMA before he took his last breath....
That's Allah's AZAAB and wrath, too late for Mirza saab but may Allah save everyone else (including you) from it.
Do they honestly declare that they belong to jamaat e ahmadiyya?.. Theres no need to, if you are living outside Pakistan. There is no column of religion in other countries passport. Even if ahmadis residing in Pakistan are to write Muslim in the religion forum, theres some other conditions which require one to prove his/her claim of being Muslim.. one of them which is to consider Hazrat mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS as an imposter nabi (nauzubillah).. and for this reason, ahmadis hesitate to write themselves as Muslims, but rather Ahmadi.
And what is your Jamaat doing for those innocent, naive Ahmadis beside sucking their hard earned money. I mean how do those Ahmadis perform this FARZ? Provide false document to get asylum in UK etc. or they have some other deceiving process to follow ?
Where in any of my posts did you read anything to come up with this insane conclusion?
RC
Say astaghfirullah and be extra careful when you say whats in someone's heart. Only Allah is all knowing, you're nothing but his servant. You indeed have claimed to be Allah when claiming to know whats in someone's heart. I'm only trying to save you from doing shirk. Please refrain to do that in future.
Thank you Iconclost for opening the thread. I would again like to remind all that just present your allegations and I will reply. Mocking and characterisation will not be accepted as it is against the forum rules and I will report such post. Lets try to be friendly and adults in understanding. Most of all dont put loads of copy paste material from website once. Please provide references for the allegations as well.
I haven sent RC a personal message on the following allegations that I require reference. He is perhaps busy with his other commitments. However I thought I should better post my go on the allegations.
Please provide reference for this writing from the book. I could not find this book on alislam.org
Again Page 564 of Aina-i-Kamalat is in Arabic and page 78 (checked both type of numbering) does not have wordings of allegation you mentioned. Please provide the reference of the allegation from the book.
I again could not find Al-Badar (I think it is a magazine) online. Could you again kindly give me the reference from the magazine? (perhaps the image)
I would be very grateful if you can provide the references which match the accusation raised. Or let me know if I am looking at the wrong thing. I am not denying of any of the accusation posted as its not true or not written but I need correct references from the books so I can read them.
I am not sure who you are referring to in above statement. If you meant the Hadhrat Mirza Bashir u din Mahmood (RA) Khalifa tul Masih the second then he passed away in 70s and above statement was published in 1992. Infact I haven’t been able to get hold onto above statement or Newspaper either. A copy of this paper will be highly appreciated.
Kindly provide the page number for this statement.
Finally I am not denying anything in allegations. It’s only that I require correct pages and books, links and perhaps the screen shot of the writing. I cannot comment of anything until I read the writing myself. It maybe that the writing is taken in the wrong context.
I requested Aramis to send me the reference for above allegation as I could not find anything about this. She kindly replied that this may have been a copy paste from somewhere which she cannot recall. This is absolutl fine with me. I wont have to reply the above.
It is objected that the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, has said that he suffered from hypochondria (Badar, 7 June 1906), and that Hazrat Bashir Ahmed Sahib in Seeratul Mahdi, Vol. 1, p. 13, wrote that he was subject to hysteria and it is argued that a person suffering from hypochondria cannot be a prophet.
The Promised Messiah has nowhere stated himself that he suffered from hypochondria or hysteria. The statement in Badar of 7 June 1906 does not set out his own words. It is a statement by the diary writer, the accuracy of which could be open to doubt. There is a very clear statement by the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, concerning the Divine safeguarding of his health which is as follows:
In the same way God Almighty knew that if I were to be afflicted with some objectionable disease like leprosy, lunacy, blindness, epilepsy etc., my opponents would conclude that I was the subject of Divine wrath. Therefore, He gave me the good news in advance, as is mentioned in the Braheen Ahmadiyya, that He would safeguard me against every objectionable disease and would complete His favor unto me. (Arbaeen,No. 3, p. 30)
Thus, he was not at all afflicted with hypochondria, or hysteria, or epilepsy, or any such disease. It is true that Hazrat Mirza Bashir Ahmed Sahib mentioned in the *Seeratul Mahdi *that the Ummul Momineen had mentioned that the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, suffered from hysteria, but the Ummul Momineen was not a physician and she described migraine, to which the Promised Messiah was liable, as hysteria. No argument can be based on her mistaken use of this expression.
It is true that he was subject to migraine and in this connection it is worthy of note that there is high medical authority for the statement that the subjects of migraine are nearly always of an active, capable, and intelligent type (Price’s text book of medicine,p. 1502). Thus there is nothing objectionable about migraine.
This kind of objection is not new. Bigoted Christian ministers have been guilty of charging the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, with epilepsy. The Holy Quran has repeatedly mentioned that the opponents of the Prophets called them insane and sorcerers, etc. It was, therefore, necessary that the Promised Messiah, like other true prophets, should have been made the subject of such charges, which are a proof of his truth and righteousness.
Also view the original writing of the book: Pay particular attention to underlined text.
I promised Firenze that I will respond to his allegation as well. So here is my go:
My Answer: He did not die in washroom. (However not too sure)
My Answer: Agreed.
My Answer: Indeed however if there is no time limit set then one cannot say when prophecy will come true.
My Answer: Indeed, If Prophet is from God then all prophecy should come true. However keep in mind if even only one prophecy becomes truth then you have to accept that yes it is true prophecy.
My Answer: Please provide links to books or exact wording of ILHAM for everyone to read. I am not denying there is no prophecy similar to this but I cannot reply to ghost statements. What you are talking about may be written in different context.
My Answer: First of all I will ask you take back your words that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) did not succeed in debate with Abdullah Atham.
If you want proof that how Hadhrat sb (A.S) defeated Christian Missionaries then view following video:
Now we are cleared that FACT is he debated Christian Missionaries and defeated them.
Lets get onto the Prophecy.
In June 1893 Deputy Abdullah Atham stood against Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S). Hadhrat sb (A.S) defeated him in debates. Deputy Abdullah Atham called our Holy Prophet SAW nauzobillah “DAJJAL”. (Bible as Paadri Abdullah Atham 1893). Mirza sb (A.S) said Allah has informed him “agar wo haq ki taraf rujoo na karre to 15 maah ke ander haavia mien giraaya jaaye ga”.
Within days he was feeling ill. However it is known that he supplicated towards God for his forgivness and good health. Within 15 months of time there is no incident reported about Abdullah Atham that he continued his Tabligh of Christinity or kept on fighting against ISLAM. Hence the condition “haq ki taraf rujoo” was met and he did not die within that time period.
Infact people of the time (similar to your thinking) started saying that Prophecy has not come true. Mirza sb (A.S) then published many papers saying Abdullah Atham to say that he has not supplicated God but he never came out.
Mirza sb also wrote that if Atham does not say that to his fellow Missionaries/Christians that he beg Allah forgivness within one year then he will die. And that happened HE died within 7 months of this prophecy.
, so well you and i know what the reality is.