Allegations Against Ahmediyya

Society Religion & Philosophy
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i said i 'll try not to post more but this is something i read and wanted to post.

as somewhere illnesses of mirza sb were brought up. now left and right

threads were closed so i am posting it here..... sorry.

"Doctor Mir Muhammad Ismail Sahib told me that he had heard many times

from Mirza Qadiani, the so-called promised Messiah, that he suffered from

Hysteria and also mentioned Melancholia. But the truth is that signs of

nervous disorders developed in him only as a result of his diligent mental work

and day and night preoccupation with literary compositions. These are often

seen in patients of Hysteria (and Melancholia) also." (Seerat-ul-Mahdi, Vol. 2, p.

55

"This disease, having occurred once in the family, was bound to penetrate into

the next off- spring. Therefore Mirza Mahmud Qadiani told me that

occasionally, he also got an attack of Hyster- Malaise". *(From: Article written by *

Doctor Shah Nawaz Sahib Qadiani, reproduced in Magazine 'Review Of Religions,'

Qadian, August, 1926 p. 11). "The cause of all his troubles such as vertigo,

headache, sleeplessness, heart cramps, indigestion, diarrhea, excessive

urination and hystermalaise was only one and that was his weakness of

nerves". (From the magazine: 'Review Qadian, May 1927, p. 26)***."Some patient *

*of Melancholia think: "I am king"; Some think "I am God", some think "I am *

*Prophet." *(From Bayaz-Noor-ud-Din p. 212, Vol. 10). **

Last and not the least ,dear ahmadi people! Think over this situation:

If on the Day of Judgment, Allah the Exalted, puts this Question to Mirza

Qadiani why did you mislead people by claiming to be a prophet after Hazrat

'Khatam-Un-Nabieen And in reply? if Mirza submits: "Ya Allah! I was

a patient of Melancholic-Hyster-malaise. I told my people that I was a 'Miraqi'

and even wrote it so in my books. Doctors said I was a maniac of Hysteria.

Pray ask these 'sages' (the ahmdis!) why did they follow nonsensical

eruptions of a diseased 'Miraqi' maniac and accepted me as their Prophet and

Messiah". Then? what will you say in reply to Allah?

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:D
Ahmadi Muslim reply to Allah on day of judgement : O allah, I was only after truth. My heart was filled with the love of the greatest prophet , Muhammad SAW that He once said that there will be an Imam Mahdi from His ummah and since my belief in Muhammad PBUH was so strong that someone with the name of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be Imam Mahdi and accepted him to be as he claimed. IF you had not shown the signs of his truthfullness (i.e: solar and lunar eclipse), his continuous jihaad against christians ( breaking cross,killing swine) and arya samaaj( hindus ) and his victories over them, and had not fulfilled the prophecies He made..( i shall cause thy message to reach the corners of the Earth. 2) Teri jamaat ke log ilm o maarfat mein kamaal haasil karen ge ..etc)... i would not have accepted him. There certainly was attraction in the claimant. It appeared to me as He was the one sent by you. He claimed to be imam mahdi and won millions and millions of hearts. I, like millions of people lost my heart by the ocean of knowledge He possesed in Him, His love for our greatest prophet Muhammad PBUH was to an extent which led me to close my eyes and followed his footsteps, which were no doubtedly the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. You were certainly with him, and me as a seeker of truth was with someone who you were with. If i'm mistaken , forgive me , see how sincerely i worshipped you. See how many times I prayed salah the way Muhammad PBUH taught us. See how many times i sent durud o salaam to our prophet Muhammad PBUH. I bared witness that theres none worthy of worship but You, and Muhammad PBUH is your prophet. I paid zakaat, helped humankind in whatever way i could. Did not place anyone as your partner. Considered you the most powerful, merciful, and gracious.

Now aramis09, take the same scenerio you presented and answer your own question. What would you say if it happened to be the opposite of what you think? what if Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS really was the imam mahdi AS? the one prophesised by Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon Him? Ask for my help if you dont come up with an answer. I'll help answering you for this scenerio here.. want me to?

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Peace d-tox..ed

I still beg to differ with you look at the red highlight above. The reason for remembering Allah (SWT) is different from reason for remembering the fathers.

Now read the green highlights, the Qur’an instructs to excel in remembrance beyond that of the fathers, not in the same way. So there are two points showing in your own response how Allah (SWT) is not ‘as’ father.

  1. the reason for remembering differs
  2. the amount of remembering differs and is more for Allah (SWT)

The implied and unwritten message here is also to say that ‘do not worship your fathers anymore, but worship Allah’

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

Btw, i could add a lot more to my answer as an ahmadi to Allah swt. I could also say, that the claimant i accepted as Imam Mahdi AS taught us exactly the same teachings Muhammad PBUH taught. His kalima was what any Muslim should believe in. I as an ahmadi was considered a threat for islam, and my jamaat used to be persecuted and put behind the bars for following what a true momin should believe in. i.e: the kalima taiyyaba. I only wished to give azaan out loud, wished people to come for namaaz after giving azaan, but was not allowed to be given the azaan. I was not allowed to send a duaa of assalam o alaikum to which i was afraid i'd be sent to jail. The list goes on....

PS: ^^ only for an ahmadi muslim who was raised and died in Pakistan.

PS: give your answer miss aramis09.

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I am impressed. Very well done and convincing point

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You are even prepared to attemp to deceive Allah...Thinking just like Mirza saab that you can talk your way out .... BRAVO...

This only shows that you are willing to go as far as argue with Allah to defend Mirza saab. Do you not see how pathetically brain washed you are... that you are blaming Allah for your pathetic decisions in life...

Unlike you, as a Muslim I will not blame Allah.

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That's all good but are you prepared to answer when Allah asks you why were you blindly following a man who said the following which is absolutely opposite of my DEEN of Islam:

  1. "I am given the power to cause death and to give life from the Lord, the all-Powerful." (Khutba Ilhamia, Page 55-56)
  2. "The God of Muhammad manifested Himself to Ahmad of Qadian, and He in the form of Ghulam Ahmad radiated His light." (Al-Hakam, No. 5)
  3. "I dreamt that I was Allah and I believed that I was really he." (Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)
  4. "I saw that I was God, and believed that I was He, and in that condition I was saying, 'We intend to create a new system and a new heaven and earth.' Then, I said 'We decorated the Lower heaven with Lights; and added, We shall create men out of the extract of earth'." (Kitab-ul-Bariya, Page 78; Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)
  5. "Muhammad has again come among us. His new position is an improvement on his earlier visitation. If any man wishes to see Muhammad, akmal (more competent), then he should see Ghulam Ahmad, in Qadian."(Al-Badr, Oct 5, 1906; Written by a poet and published by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
  6. "It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles... My Miracles exceed one million in numbers."(Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79; Tadhkira tul Shahadatain, Page 41)
  7. "It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(pbuh)."(Daily Al-Fadl, Jul 17. 1992, Mirza Basheer al-Din Mahmud Qadiani)
  8. "This verse, 'He is the Messenger of God and the seal of Prophets' contains a secret allusion to prophecy and that is that the coming of prophets is sealed for ever, and except for the prophet incarnate who is no other than the prophet himself, will have the faculty of receiving revelations from God openly like the prophets of old. Since I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was made the prophet Incarnate."(Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

Oh yeh I forgot, you are trained to say all of the above is said metaphorically....it's not real.... and your Jammat taught you that you can trick Allah like this on these kind of questions...

you really believe you can trick Allah ?

RC

Federal Budget 2013
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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

RC

You get too emotional. Come on you have 25 years of experience in beating Ahmadis in debate. I was expecting actually far more from you then I got. I would rather debate Psyah then you as I know later on you are going to make up excuses. 


**Lets say enough is enough on blaming each other.**

**THE TITLE OF THE FORUM SAYS ITS REPLY TO ALLEGATION. IF I SEE ANOTHER POST FROM ANYONE REGARDLESS OF AHMADI OR NON-AHMADI TRYING TO BRING THEIR PERSONAL FIGHTS IN THIS THREAD THEN *I WILL REPORT YOU.***

**I am honestly trying to reply to allegations made and they dont necessarily have to end up in a debate as they are only a reply. **

**Let me summarise this in orderly fashion.**

**- NO BLAMING each other**
**- REPLY TO ALLEGATION ONLY or counter reply if necesary.**
**- DONT paste more allegations until the one raised are not answered (Take this one more seriously plz)**

**I want to keep it as short as possible and close it once the allegations are done. They do not necessarily have to be accepted as an answer as I am only replying with my limited knowledge.**

**Final request especially for my dear friend aramis that wait for me to finish replying Rc first then I will come to your points raised.**

**Jazakllah.**
**** 
**P.S - I have also requested Mods to remove any post which is not related to topic or derailing or against above guidelines after this post.**
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Allah is all-knowing, all-powerful. No one can deceive Allah or talk their way out on the judgement day. Ahmadis believe in the true Islam with total sincerity and truthfulness. Do not presume you know what's in people's hearts. Only Allah knows what's in people's hearts. Everyone will die alone and be answerable to Allah for their deeds. And He is the best judge.

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Following is the original writing from the Book: Page 55, 56 of Khutba Ilhamia.

I am not sure if accusant have read this book or not but few pages ahead Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) has explained the Ilham and what is meant by causing death and Life.

Please view the passage below: Page 61, 62 of the same book.

Hoping that all can read Urdu well I will explain what he meant by above passage. (If you cannot read URDU then let me know I will type this in Roman URDU.)

In the above explanation of the Ilham Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (A.S) has clearly explained that “Death” means killing kufr, Gunnah and zulm. And Life means roohaaniat ataa kar ke dilon ko zindagi bakhshana.

To me its an open book now. Please feel free to give your thoughts.

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please clarify..is mirza your mehdi or prophet or both??second..is coming of mehdi mentioned in Quran? ( i do not think so but may be u know abt it better). i am following what was taught by Allah in Quran and by Rasool in Hadith. and i will answer Allah.
Allah you know how i spent my life. i donot have to tell YOU. please have mercy on me.

i believe you will not have the courage to make long speeches **there* bro!*

Timepass - June 2013
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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

and what did you (mr popat) think about mirza sb's admission to such a disease where a patient can claim to be god and prophet etc(of which we have seen much evidence)

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You know even I disagree with your beliefs, I like/respect you as a person. You are a good innocent soul ... 25 years ? that will make me too old to discuss anything yaar, let alone discuss this sensitive issue....:).......where did you get that man? but to answer this post I say only two words: YES SIR. ;)
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Samar chan ji, I have read it. :slight_smile:

I couldn’t find a reason why you would cut page 61 from top right and page 62 from bottom left but that’s irrelevant.

Chan ji, “Urdu humaray ghar ki laondi hai” so no need for you to translate for me, you are welcome to do it for others.

Look, be reasonable yaar, as a Messenger of Allah you think Mirza saab would write something he didn’t mean and 5 or 6 pages later realize oops I made a mistake or something I wrote 6 pages ago needs explanation ? wouldn’t he go back to those pages and explain or correct his mistake right then and there ?

I understand your love for Mirza saab but you truly think you understood what it really is?

Here is my take on this. In this particular case, Mirza saab is comparing himself with Hazrat ISA (AS, PBUH) (read few previous pages) and since Hazrat ISA (AS, PBUH) was given this miracle by Allah of giving life to dead, Mirza saab felt compelled to say something similar to counter that to make his point.

But he truly meant what he said on page 55, 56.

Now you can argue all day if you like and find more references to defend Mirza saab but at the end when you are alone, relaxed, with a cup of tea in your hand (away from your wife, if you got one of those …:wink: ), think beyond this forum and this discussion, may be you will see the light… the light of truth.

Regards

RC

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Well said and all true and I agree with all except the red highlighted text above.

Replace the red highlighted text above with Ahmadiyat and I, and all Muslims will agree with it entirely and respect your beliefs.

Thnaks

RC

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aramis09, Mirza saab has actually claimed more then just Mehdi or prophet.

Here is a list:

  1. A brand New Prophet
  2. Mehdi
  3. *Allah *
  4. Son of Allah
  5. Reincarnation of Prophet Muhammad(SA, PBUH) (better version)
  6. Hazrat ISA (AS)
  7. The Christian God
  8. Hazrat Ali (RA)
  9. Hazrat Imam Hussein(RA)
  10. Shri Krishna (The Lord of Hindus)
  11. Guru Nanak (Mirza saab claimed he was actually Muslim)

Addition...
You know after writing a list above, I went out for a fresh air (smoking, ;)) and something just hit me. I was thinking about this list and why someone with sane mind claim to be so many different people at the same time ? and then it hit me, that Hazrat Moosa (AS, PBUH) is missing from the list... Why ?

I didn't get enough time to think deeply on this but on the surface it seems that Hazrat MOOSA (AS, PBUH) is missing from the list because Judaism was not one of the major religions in India at that time and apparantly British Gov't didn't have any immediate danger from that religion otherwise Mirza saab pretty much covered all major religions in India.

Readers, Ahmadis or Muslims, what's your take on this ?

RC

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

*i wud still like mr popat or detoxed or any other ahmdi to tell me---- if mehdi's coming is mentioned in Quran? *

detox why are you after my posts now? ( and u thought i have given up so i left??no no no)
i assume u mean the posts in the thread thats closed????? after so many days now u remember that u wud like the mods to delete my posts of PERSONAL ATTACKS. sorry but i only posted mirza's books excerpts. u can or cannot answer them, your choice. u can post pgs before and after the one that i posted.

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Brother/Sister aramis09
You are making it sound like Muslims ONLY believe what's in Quran and don't believe on coming of Hazrat Mehdi. Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH) has given us many many indications of Hazrat Mehdi's coming and as a Muslim, I truly believe that.

This is not a very convincing point and will trap you and will cause you embarrassment later.

how would you respond if de.toxed or Mr. Popat asked you:
You don't believe coming of mehdi because it's not mentioned in Quran this means you don't believe in Kalima Tayyaba, method of namaz, daroord shareef etc. because they are not mentioned in Quran either? TRAPPED ?

You see there are many things that are not mentioned in Quran but they are part of our deen and Imaan. So how do you become practicing Muslim if Quran is the only book you reference? ...

Brother/Sister, this is how these kind of threads get locked/closed. We don't have to be rude and insult Mirza saab like this to make our point.

It wouldn't hurt if we can use Mirza saab instead of Mirza. There are so many other controversies in Ahmadiya beliefs that we can discuss, we don't need to over emphasize Mirza saab's illness (if there was any) in an insulting manner.

Just a thought nothing personal.

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

RC i am not going to defend myself to what u are saying except for saying that u do not know what my next point is. its ok if i get embarresed or trapped. i have thick skin and strong belief......

and its SISTER :)

and the last thread abt ahmedis that i participated ...was closed ...when i was away from my computer for 2-3 days!!!!!!so not bcz of me :)

sorry do not want to be posting things like this but i have to answer.
now where is mr popat or detox today??????????

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Re: Allegations Against Ahmediyya

It is part of every Muslim's eemaan on the coming of Imam Mahdi AS in the latter days. Just like the coming of Jesus AS is not directly written in Quran ,and yet Muslims hold the belief of His coming back... same goes for Imam Mahdi AS as well. Yet when it comes to coming of Jesus, Muslims rely on Hadith but with the coming of Imam Mahdi, they dont take anything authentic but Quran. Sure, there are certain places in Quran which doesnt actually point to imam mahdi but certainly a reformer in the latter days.. and to understand those verses better, Muslims rely on hadith to come up to the conclusions.. this has always been tradition to understand Islam in the most perfect way. Unless you dont take hadith as authentic source, in which case, the belief of Jesus AS's coming back should also be discarded.